Very interesting PT issue...

Saint_LB · 06-09-2010, 03:47 PM

wrong quote

Saint_LB · 06-09-2010, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

Thanks for lowering yourself down to the high-school level and not address my questions but take the time to point out my run-on sentence rants and all

Whatever...but I was serious. I took the time to read your posts, because I am interested, but if I don't understand what you're saying, I would like to think that I could ask to try again in language that even a high school level guy like me could understand. Sooner or later, and hopefully sooner, I'm going to learn to just put you on full ignore. I wish it didn't have to be that way. You certainly can't expect everyone to agree with everything you say...or is that what you expect?

saintfan · 06-09-2010, 03:53 PM

<Editorial>

I spurn the Iggy list, because it takes away from the fun. Some of us, myself included, say the dumbest stuff, like, ever. I am amused by you people and I sometimes amuse myself - in private.

</Editorial>

st thomas · 06-09-2010, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

Here's Marion Barber's contract breakdown:

5/20/2008: Signed a seven-year, $45 million contract. The deal contains $16 million guaranteed, including a $12 million signing bonus. 2010: $3.86 million (+ $4 million roster bonus due in March), 2011: $4.25 million, 2012: $5.75 million, 2013: $6.25 million, 2014: $7 million, 2015: Free Agent

from an agent / players point of view, why should Pierre expect anything less than this? ....bare in mind too, he's coming back to a team fresh off a super bowl win as a the most productive player right behind their star QB.... something Barber has never had to bring to the table.

I personally like to compare Barber's contract, because I think the numbers are about right, and Barber is about as close of a comparison you can find in the NFL to Pierre by way of productivity, value to team, playing style, accountability, consistency, intensity, etc....

I also think it's jaded to not look around the league and find comparable players to Pierre, see what they're landing as far as contracts and assume Pierre could pursue the same.

All I see here is folks finding the most productive RB's in the league, on teams that otherwise have little value in other players than their overworked star RB's therefor hand out blank checks to their star RB's to keep them happy and their dwindling fans happy as they struggle to compete... so commit to sell tickets with their presence... but fail to see that there are other RB's equivalent to Pierre's productivity and value that ARE under contracts similar to what he's pursuing.

you make good and true points but thats jerry jones making that call. its not tom benson its mickey acting like its his money. everyone wants p.t. back. why isn't he there, because he will not make that kind of money even if he compares to barber. its hair pulling to say the least. i hope it don't come to the point where they tell him to sign the tender or else. great points though HOL.

HintOfLogic · 06-09-2010, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Saint_LB

Whatever...but I was serious. I took the time to read your posts, because I am interested, but if I don't understand what you're saying, I would like to think that I could ask to try again in language that even a high school level guy like me could understand. Sooner or later, and hopefully sooner, I'm going to learn to just put you on full ignore. I wish it didn't have to be that way. You certainly can't expect everyone to agree with everything you say...or is that what you expect?

...because, I made points, I had questions, I concluded with my opinion of others outlook on this board. You avoided addressing any of my questions or points which are the focus of the subject and picked out 'one' section to ridicule. I don't care how you fluff it up, but it's childish and skittish to me. If you're not going to address my questions.... why do you bother anyway? It's all the same, you have nothing relevant to say.

Does Pierre compare to any other runner in the NFL better than Marion Barber... I don't think so? ..... looking at productivity, intensity and level of play, versatility, efficiency, value to team etc.

It's a cop out and a "Hater's" angle to pick the most productive RB (Jackson) with a team that has little to offer than an abused ground game to highlight their loosing formula. Then, break down his salary to negotiate against Pierre's potential when there are more comparable RB's (Barber) to Pierre that ARE getting paid in the range that Pierre is proposing. See, it's all in the eye of the beholder.... how come no-one is comparing Pierre's to Barber's? Wouldn't that make more sense... be more fair? Does anyone here think for themselves.... because all I see is a bunch of marionettes. One person mentions Steven Jackson, then everyone else mimics... feeding off of agreeing with the next person without expelling any thought for themselves.

Oh, and of course I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say. That's why we're here right... to share difference of opinion, talk debate, dispute.... etc. Why is it when I share a different opinion, I get flack for expecting everyone to agree. Because I offer an opinion contrary to popular opinion, do I need to apologize in advance, sound more meager, unsure of myself..... what can I do.

HintOfLogic · 06-09-2010, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by st thomas

you make good and true points but thats jerry jones making that call. its not tom benson its mickey acting like its his money. everyone wants p.t. back. why isn't he there, because he will not make that kind of money even if he compares to barber. its hair pulling to say the least. i hope it don't come to the point where they tell him to sign the tender or else. great points though HOL.

Thanks! but I still, from a bargaining standpoint, don't see why it's far fetched for Pierre to expect a Barber type contract... Jerry Jones or not. Bare in mind, Pierre and agent are watching checks for 8+ million dispensed out a less productive player. Now I understand it's "Taboo" to talk about Reggie here, but from an outsiders point of view, is it not also bargaining power to compare what you want to make vs. what a least productive player on your team is making too.....

So from Pierre's (agent's) angle, you've got an $8+ million running back playing under your productivity and Barber, who you share productivity and value with making $45 million / 7 years. Also, throw in to the mix.... Pierre has put in some hard hours at minimum wage for years now. Doesn't this league usually have ways of justifying itself to those type of players?

Saint_LB · 06-09-2010, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

Does Pierre compare to any other runner in the NFL better than Marion Barber... I don't think so? ..... looking at productivity, intensity and level of play, versatility, efficiency, value to team etc.

I really don't know how you can make this comparison. Barber and Jackson have been doing it better for longer.

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

.... how come no-one is comparing Pierre's to Barber's?

I'm gonna take a stab at this one and say it's because somewhere it was quoted that PT wanted SJ money...so...

HintOfLogic · 06-09-2010, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Saint_LB

I really don't know how you can make this comparison. Barber and Jackson have been doing it better for longer.

I'm gonna take a stab at this one and say it's because somewhere it was quoted that PT wanted SJ money...so...

wasn't Barber awarded his contract in his third year? ... with a track history pretty comparative to Pierre's thus far in his career (minus a Super Bowl win)? To say he's been doing it longer is irrelevant to the fact of when Barber was extended in contrast to where Pierre is now..... try again.

So someone compared Jacksons', can we not think for ourselves, think outside the box, or are we limited to taking the direction the media points us in.

So in summary, are you saying Pierre is not worthy of a Barber type contract?

Saint_LB · 06-10-2010, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

So someone compared Jacksons', can we not think for ourselves, think outside the box, or are we limited to taking the direction the media points us in.

You can think however you want. You asked why people were comparing him to SJ and not MB, and I answered your question...and just for making me say it twice...you have to read the following joke, which I think pertains.

A drunken man was on his hands and knees by the street curb obviously searching for something. A policeman walking by asked the man what he was doing. He said he was looking for his watch. The policeman asked him where he lost it and the drunk said he lost it about a half block down the street. The cop asks, "Well why are you looking for it here?" The drunk says, "Because there's not a street light down there."

Well, maybe not...but anyway, it seems obvious why people would be comparing PT to SJ, since that was the name the was thrown out there. MB was somebody you threw out there.

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

So in summary, are you saying Pierre is not worthy of a Barber type contract?

Yes...I think that the coaching staff here thinks they can win whether PT wants to be a part of it or not. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure Payton would tell you that guys succeed in his schemes because his great playmaking ability puts people in a position to succeed. I'm not saying that's true, but I bet Payton would.

I think the guys in Dallas considered MB to be a larger part of their successful plans. JMO, though.

SaintPauly · 06-10-2010, 12:42 AM

I like Pierre Thomas, and I am probably in the minority here, when I say that he has proven to be the best RB, on the team, for the past two season. NOW, with that said, I also don't see him getting Steven Jackson money. If he was quoted as saying that, then I have to laugh a little. PT is a great player, but from what I've seen so far, he's no Steven Jackson. That guy is an every down player, that hasn't missed a game in like forever. PT has been hurt, both of his first two seasons. I don't know. I hope the deal gets worked out, but he better wake up a little here....

06-09-2010, 03:47 PM	#21
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: Very interesting PT issue... wrong quote
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Last edited by Saint_LB; 06-09-2010 at 03:50 PM..

06-09-2010, 03:48 PM	#22
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: Very interesting PT issue... Originally Posted by HintOfLogic Thanks for lowering yourself down to the high-school level and not address my questions but take the time to point out my run-on sentence rants and all Whatever...but I was serious. I took the time to read your posts, because I am interested, but if I don't understand what you're saying, I would like to think that I could ask to try again in language that even a high school level guy like me could understand. Sooner or later, and hopefully sooner, I'm going to learn to just put you on full ignore. I wish it didn't have to be that way. You certainly can't expect everyone to agree with everything you say...or is that what you expect?
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

06-09-2010, 03:53 PM	#23
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Very interesting PT issue... <Editorial> I spurn the Iggy list, because it takes away from the fun. Some of us, myself included, say the dumbest stuff, like, ever. I am amused by you people and I sometimes amuse myself - in private. </Editorial>

06-09-2010, 03:54 PM	#24
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: Very interesting PT issue... Originally Posted by HintOfLogic Here's Marion Barber's contract breakdown: 5/20/2008: Signed a seven-year, $45 million contract. The deal contains $16 million guaranteed, including a $12 million signing bonus. 2010: $3.86 million (+ $4 million roster bonus due in March), 2011: $4.25 million, 2012: $5.75 million, 2013: $6.25 million, 2014: $7 million, 2015: Free Agent from an agent / players point of view, why should Pierre expect anything less than this? ....bare in mind too, he's coming back to a team fresh off a super bowl win as a the most productive player right behind their star QB.... something Barber has never had to bring to the table. I personally like to compare Barber's contract, because I think the numbers are about right, and Barber is about as close of a comparison you can find in the NFL to Pierre by way of productivity, value to team, playing style, accountability, consistency, intensity, etc.... I also think it's jaded to not look around the league and find comparable players to Pierre, see what they're landing as far as contracts and assume Pierre could pursue the same. All I see here is folks finding the most productive RB's in the league, on teams that otherwise have little value in other players than their overworked star RB's therefor hand out blank checks to their star RB's to keep them happy and their dwindling fans happy as they struggle to compete... so commit to sell tickets with their presence... but fail to see that there are other RB's equivalent to Pierre's productivity and value that ARE under contracts similar to what he's pursuing. you make good and true points but thats jerry jones making that call. its not tom benson its mickey acting like its his money. everyone wants p.t. back. why isn't he there, because he will not make that kind of money even if he compares to barber. its hair pulling to say the least. i hope it don't come to the point where they tell him to sign the tender or else. great points though HOL.

06-09-2010, 04:36 PM	#25
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: Very interesting PT issue... Originally Posted by Saint_LB Whatever...but I was serious. I took the time to read your posts, because I am interested, but if I don't understand what you're saying, I would like to think that I could ask to try again in language that even a high school level guy like me could understand. Sooner or later, and hopefully sooner, I'm going to learn to just put you on full ignore. I wish it didn't have to be that way. You certainly can't expect everyone to agree with everything you say...or is that what you expect? ...because, I made points, I had questions, I concluded with my opinion of others outlook on this board. You avoided addressing any of my questions or points which are the focus of the subject and picked out 'one' section to ridicule. I don't care how you fluff it up, but it's childish and skittish to me. If you're not going to address my questions.... why do you bother anyway? It's all the same, you have nothing relevant to say. Does Pierre compare to any other runner in the NFL better than Marion Barber... I don't think so? ..... looking at productivity, intensity and level of play, versatility, efficiency, value to team etc. It's a cop out and a "Hater's" angle to pick the most productive RB (Jackson) with a team that has little to offer than an abused ground game to highlight their loosing formula. Then, break down his salary to negotiate against Pierre's potential when there are more comparable RB's (Barber) to Pierre that ARE getting paid in the range that Pierre is proposing. See, it's all in the eye of the beholder.... how come no-one is comparing Pierre's to Barber's? Wouldn't that make more sense... be more fair? Does anyone here think for themselves.... because all I see is a bunch of marionettes. One person mentions Steven Jackson, then everyone else mimics... feeding off of agreeing with the next person without expelling any thought for themselves. Oh, and of course I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say. That's why we're here right... to share difference of opinion, talk debate, dispute.... etc. Why is it when I share a different opinion, I get flack for expecting everyone to agree. Because I offer an opinion contrary to popular opinion, do I need to apologize in advance, sound more meager, unsure of myself..... what can I do.
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

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06-09-2010, 04:46 PM	#26
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: Very interesting PT issue... Originally Posted by st thomas you make good and true points but thats jerry jones making that call. its not tom benson its mickey acting like its his money. everyone wants p.t. back. why isn't he there, because he will not make that kind of money even if he compares to barber. its hair pulling to say the least. i hope it don't come to the point where they tell him to sign the tender or else. great points though HOL. Thanks! but I still, from a bargaining standpoint, don't see why it's far fetched for Pierre to expect a Barber type contract... Jerry Jones or not. Bare in mind, Pierre and agent are watching checks for 8+ million dispensed out a less productive player. Now I understand it's "Taboo" to talk about Reggie here, but from an outsiders point of view, is it not also bargaining power to compare what you want to make vs. what a least productive player on your team is making too..... So from Pierre's (agent's) angle, you've got an $8+ million running back playing under your productivity and Barber, who you share productivity and value with making $45 million / 7 years. Also, throw in to the mix.... Pierre has put in some hard hours at minimum wage for years now. Doesn't this league usually have ways of justifying itself to those type of players?
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

06-09-2010, 09:30 PM	#27
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: Very interesting PT issue... Originally Posted by HintOfLogic Does Pierre compare to any other runner in the NFL better than Marion Barber... I don't think so? ..... looking at productivity, intensity and level of play, versatility, efficiency, value to team etc. I really don't know how you can make this comparison. Barber and Jackson have been doing it better for longer. Originally Posted by HintOfLogic .... how come no-one is comparing Pierre's to Barber's? I'm gonna take a stab at this one and say it's because somewhere it was quoted that PT wanted SJ money...so...
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

06-09-2010, 10:12 PM	#28
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: Very interesting PT issue... Originally Posted by Saint_LB I really don't know how you can make this comparison. Barber and Jackson have been doing it better for longer. I'm gonna take a stab at this one and say it's because somewhere it was quoted that PT wanted SJ money...so... wasn't Barber awarded his contract in his third year? ... with a track history pretty comparative to Pierre's thus far in his career (minus a Super Bowl win)? To say he's been doing it longer is irrelevant to the fact of when Barber was extended in contrast to where Pierre is now..... try again. So someone compared Jacksons', can we not think for ourselves, think outside the box, or are we limited to taking the direction the media points us in. So in summary, are you saying Pierre is not worthy of a Barber type contract?
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

06-10-2010, 12:29 AM	#29
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: Very interesting PT issue... Originally Posted by HintOfLogic So someone compared Jacksons', can we not think for ourselves, think outside the box, or are we limited to taking the direction the media points us in. You can think however you want. You asked why people were comparing him to SJ and not MB, and I answered your question...and just for making me say it twice...you have to read the following joke, which I think pertains. A drunken man was on his hands and knees by the street curb obviously searching for something. A policeman walking by asked the man what he was doing. He said he was looking for his watch. The policeman asked him where he lost it and the drunk said he lost it about a half block down the street. The cop asks, "Well why are you looking for it here?" The drunk says, "Because there's not a street light down there." Well, maybe not...but anyway, it seems obvious why people would be comparing PT to SJ, since that was the name the was thrown out there. MB was somebody you threw out there. Originally Posted by HintOfLogic So in summary, are you saying Pierre is not worthy of a Barber type contract? Yes...I think that the coaching staff here thinks they can win whether PT wants to be a part of it or not. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure Payton would tell you that guys succeed in his schemes because his great playmaking ability puts people in a position to succeed. I'm not saying that's true, but I bet Payton would. I think the guys in Dallas considered MB to be a larger part of their successful plans. JMO, though.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

06-10-2010, 12:42 AM	#30
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Very interesting PT issue... I like Pierre Thomas, and I am probably in the minority here, when I say that he has proven to be the best RB, on the team, for the past two season. NOW, with that said, I also don't see him getting Steven Jackson money. If he was quoted as saying that, then I have to laugh a little. PT is a great player, but from what I've seen so far, he's no Steven Jackson. That guy is an every down player, that hasn't missed a game in like forever. PT has been hurt, both of his first two seasons. I don't know. I hope the deal gets worked out, but he better wake up a little here....
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....

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