Board very Quiet after Win !!

JOESAM2002 · 10-14-2003, 11:34 AM

Good point JudeT.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-14-2003, 12:04 PM

JudeThaddeus --

I think you are mistaking the the term \"West Coast\" with conservitive. This doesn\'t look like anymore like a West Coast offense to me this year then it did last year. Unless, you consider putting 2 and 3 tightends in and pounding Deuce up the middle a West Coast offense !! You do understand that a West Coast offense doesn\'t do this don\'t you?

You want to make it sound like the success we enjoyed on offense last year was more luck, rather than what it really was. What really happened is that we took advantage of our speedy receivers and created favorable matchups. There wasn\'t much luck to it. Also because of our talent at the receiver position, it created more room for Deuce to run.

So, your belief that we have gone to more of a West Coast offense is hardly the case. If the best idea you can come up with to solve the problems on offense is to get rid of EVERONE and start over, then I\'m glad you aren\'t making these decisions. The players are there to be a VERY productive offense. What is missing IMO, is the coordinator to effetively use the palyers that are there !!

DblBogey · 10-14-2003, 12:10 PM

BillyC, you are a glutton for punishment. For two days of your short life you have defended the indefensible. You continue to argue/debate in defense of players who at this juncture in their life need a real attitude adjustment. Their attitudes are lower than whale snot. I have seen many arguments as to what is wrong with the Saints and many of them are valid arguements, including yours that the offensive scheme has changed. My question is are the powers to be asleep at the wheel or have we been going south to the point that no one on the team really cares whether they win or not. I will give you this Joe Horn is a better WR than he is right now, Aaron Brooks (even though average QB at best) is a better QB than he is now. The OL is better than they are right now. I could continue to call out names, but what makes a real contending team is cohesiveness, lay down your life for your team mate attitude. We don\'t have it we are a group of individuals -- a team in name only. Whatever the bond that held us together the last couple of years is not here this year. Is it the late year collapses, is it the injuries? I don\'t know if there is one little thing or a bunch of different things. Have some of players been reading too much of their own press. That is indicative of ending up with a team of individuals not a team playing as one. I don\'t think anyone of us in this forum have enough fingers to plug the hjoles in the leaking \"levee\" in figuring out what or who is at fault. In ending -attitude makes the difference between winners and losers.

\"Winning is not a sometime thing: it\'s an all the time thing. You don\'t win once in a while; you don\'t do the right thing once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.\" -- Vince Lombardi

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-14-2003, 12:15 PM

BillyC, you are a glutton for punishment. For two days of your short life you have defended the indefensible.

Well, I would like you to go dig up some of my posts and show me where this is true. As soon as you do that then we can talk !! It shouldn\'t be hard to do right?

saintfan · 10-14-2003, 12:17 PM

West coast this...West coast that. Do you people understand that NOBODY in the NFL is running the West Coast offense. Not a sinlge team. I\'m so sick of hearing you people talk about the west-frekin\'-coast offense I\'m ready to puke in 08\'s cool-aid.

JudeThaddeus · 10-14-2003, 12:57 PM

Maybe I wasn\'t specific enough and maybe anytime you call into question Brooks\' ability, you get accused of not knowing what you are talking about on this board. I haven\'t posted here long enough to judge, though I suspect that long-term members can answer this.

What I said was that we tried to adopt a more west-coast style this year. What I meant to get across is that our coaching wanted to go with a more reliable scheme this year, at least that\'s what it looked like to me. Call it a \"version\" of the West Coast offense. They wanted to defuse the late-season collapses, as the negative fan reaction and support WILL reach critical mass this year. I think they tried to run this style and our players (most notably our receivers and QB) FAILED at it completely. Our offense could not produce anything. Deuce was still running well, but we couldn\'t move the ball in the air.

Lately, we have not even been doing that. It appears our coaches believe that if we pound it, we can get the defense to stack the box and create favorable match-ups for our receivers. Problem is that most NFL defenses don\'t respect our run enough to really fall for it and their LBs normally are not picked up in the run-blocking schemes. Short version: our O-line isn\'t mean enough to attack the defense, we aren\'t breaking the big runs = they don\'t respect our run.

As for last year, big plays are an aberation. If big plays were the rule, we wouldn\'t call them big plays. That means that, YES, a lot of what happened to us last year was lucky. We had (and still have) the tools to make the big play. We just haven\'t been very lucky this year. Without a little luck, the big play doesn\'t happen. Period.

saintfan · 10-14-2003, 01:10 PM

One Man\'s \"LUCK\" is another Man\'s \"EXECUTION\". Sure, some of it is the scheme, and while every team needs a break here and there, the good teams create their own \"luck\"...and it\'s called execution.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-14-2003, 01:16 PM

JudeThaddeus --

I\'m not going to bash anyone if they criticize Brooks, as long as it is on target. I think your last post has some truth to it. But, I don\'t think McCarthy is calling his offensive scheme to defuse any negitive reaction by the fans. Come on man -- Do you really believe that? I think the only reason he changed is because he thought it would work. I could guess at why he changed but none of us really know. So, I don\'t care to speculate on what his reason was. Maybe his wife told him it would work. Who knows?

Big plays aren\'t likely to happen as short 5 yard passes but they are going to be more successful, if you put your playmakers in position to make big plays. It isn\'t all luck. It\'s about creating favorable matchups. It\'s also about having the talent to make the big plays. We have the talent. What we don\'t have is the favorable matchups as often as we did last year.

[Edited on 14/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

subguy · 10-14-2003, 01:30 PM

Back from the road,....I will take it a victory..............we stink and the Bears stink worse. Stats are great for fantasy football, but the wins sure feels good. That is one, and I believe the Falcons will be beat. Now beyond that, we are what we are. I am happy with the win. Does it change my warm,fuzzy attitude? Not a bit! The Saints are the NFL\'s disfunctional family right now. I think that a win may be a baby step of sorts, both winning and losing are constagious.

JudeThaddeus · 10-14-2003, 02:25 PM

Fair enough, I can\'t disagree with the luck thing. Everything we did wasn\'t luck. We have tons of talent, and the talent put in the right place, made big plays. Teams without the talent, do not make big plays. All I am saying is that when your offense is known for the big plays and you come to depend on them, when they don\'t come through you are hurtin.

When I make a stab at trying to figure out the coaching, there is no way to know if I am correct. The same can be said for anything posted on this board. We are all guessing at everything. They are the best guesses we can make based on our background and knowledge base. It just makes sense to me to believe that McCarthy tried to change offenses to eliminate the late-season collapses. I could be wrong.

As for the Brooks thing, we will just have to agree to disagree. I don\'t think he is much of a QB. He is average for the league as it is right now. I would not call him the future of the Saints, although I have growing fears that he is.

And let me go on the record right now by saying that if Brooks suddenly becomes consistent, I will write about how wrong I was. I will buy a Brooks #2 Saints jersey, and I will put a picture of myself wearing it on this board. I can eat crow with the best of them and I don\'t know everything. I\'ve been wrong about a lot of things in my life.

Now, let\'s both hope this is one of those times.

10-14-2003, 11:34 AM	#41
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Board very Quiet after Win !! Good point JudeT.

10-14-2003, 12:04 PM	#42
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Board very Quiet after Win !! JudeThaddeus -- I think you are mistaking the the term \"West Coast\" with conservitive. This doesn\'t look like anymore like a West Coast offense to me this year then it did last year. Unless, you consider putting 2 and 3 tightends in and pounding Deuce up the middle a West Coast offense !! You do understand that a West Coast offense doesn\'t do this don\'t you? You want to make it sound like the success we enjoyed on offense last year was more luck, rather than what it really was. What really happened is that we took advantage of our speedy receivers and created favorable matchups. There wasn\'t much luck to it. Also because of our talent at the receiver position, it created more room for Deuce to run. So, your belief that we have gone to more of a West Coast offense is hardly the case. If the best idea you can come up with to solve the problems on offense is to get rid of EVERONE and start over, then I\'m glad you aren\'t making these decisions. The players are there to be a VERY productive offense. What is missing IMO, is the coordinator to effetively use the palyers that are there !!
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-14-2003, 12:10 PM	#43
DblBogey 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 538	Board very Quiet after Win !! BillyC, you are a glutton for punishment. For two days of your short life you have defended the indefensible. You continue to argue/debate in defense of players who at this juncture in their life need a real attitude adjustment. Their attitudes are lower than whale snot. I have seen many arguments as to what is wrong with the Saints and many of them are valid arguements, including yours that the offensive scheme has changed. My question is are the powers to be asleep at the wheel or have we been going south to the point that no one on the team really cares whether they win or not. I will give you this Joe Horn is a better WR than he is right now, Aaron Brooks (even though average QB at best) is a better QB than he is now. The OL is better than they are right now. I could continue to call out names, but what makes a real contending team is cohesiveness, lay down your life for your team mate attitude. We don\'t have it we are a group of individuals -- a team in name only. Whatever the bond that held us together the last couple of years is not here this year. Is it the late year collapses, is it the injuries? I don\'t know if there is one little thing or a bunch of different things. Have some of players been reading too much of their own press. That is indicative of ending up with a team of individuals not a team playing as one. I don\'t think anyone of us in this forum have enough fingers to plug the hjoles in the leaking \"levee\" in figuring out what or who is at fault. In ending -attitude makes the difference between winners and losers. \"Winning is not a sometime thing: it\'s an all the time thing. You don\'t win once in a while; you don\'t do the right thing once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.\" -- Vince Lombardi
DblBogey 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 538	Hey Goodell . . . This year we will kick ass for free!

10-14-2003, 12:15 PM	#44
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Board very Quiet after Win !! BillyC, you are a glutton for punishment. For two days of your short life you have defended the indefensible. Well, I would like you to go dig up some of my posts and show me where this is true. As soon as you do that then we can talk !! It shouldn\'t be hard to do right?
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-14-2003, 12:17 PM	#45
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Board very Quiet after Win !! West coast this...West coast that. Do you people understand that NOBODY in the NFL is running the West Coast offense. Not a sinlge team. I\'m so sick of hearing you people talk about the west-frekin\'-coast offense I\'m ready to puke in 08\'s cool-aid.

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10-14-2003, 12:57 PM	#46
JudeThaddeus Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53	Board very Quiet after Win !! Maybe I wasn\'t specific enough and maybe anytime you call into question Brooks\' ability, you get accused of not knowing what you are talking about on this board. I haven\'t posted here long enough to judge, though I suspect that long-term members can answer this. What I said was that we tried to adopt a more west-coast style this year. What I meant to get across is that our coaching wanted to go with a more reliable scheme this year, at least that\'s what it looked like to me. Call it a \"version\" of the West Coast offense. They wanted to defuse the late-season collapses, as the negative fan reaction and support WILL reach critical mass this year. I think they tried to run this style and our players (most notably our receivers and QB) FAILED at it completely. Our offense could not produce anything. Deuce was still running well, but we couldn\'t move the ball in the air. Lately, we have not even been doing that. It appears our coaches believe that if we pound it, we can get the defense to stack the box and create favorable match-ups for our receivers. Problem is that most NFL defenses don\'t respect our run enough to really fall for it and their LBs normally are not picked up in the run-blocking schemes. Short version: our O-line isn\'t mean enough to attack the defense, we aren\'t breaking the big runs = they don\'t respect our run. As for last year, big plays are an aberation. If big plays were the rule, we wouldn\'t call them big plays. That means that, YES, a lot of what happened to us last year was lucky. We had (and still have) the tools to make the big play. We just haven\'t been very lucky this year. Without a little luck, the big play doesn\'t happen. Period.
JudeThaddeus Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53

10-14-2003, 01:10 PM	#47
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Board very Quiet after Win !! One Man\'s \"LUCK\" is another Man\'s \"EXECUTION\". Sure, some of it is the scheme, and while every team needs a break here and there, the good teams create their own \"luck\"...and it\'s called execution.

10-14-2003, 01:16 PM	#48
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Board very Quiet after Win !! JudeThaddeus -- I\'m not going to bash anyone if they criticize Brooks, as long as it is on target. I think your last post has some truth to it. But, I don\'t think McCarthy is calling his offensive scheme to defuse any negitive reaction by the fans. Come on man -- Do you really believe that? I think the only reason he changed is because he thought it would work. I could guess at why he changed but none of us really know. So, I don\'t care to speculate on what his reason was. Maybe his wife told him it would work. Who knows? Big plays aren\'t likely to happen as short 5 yard passes but they are going to be more successful, if you put your playmakers in position to make big plays. It isn\'t all luck. It\'s about creating favorable matchups. It\'s also about having the talent to make the big plays. We have the talent. What we don\'t have is the favorable matchups as often as we did last year. [Edited on 14/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-14-2003, 01:30 PM	#49
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,095	Board very Quiet after Win !! Back from the road,....I will take it a victory..............we stink and the Bears stink worse. Stats are great for fantasy football, but the wins sure feels good. That is one, and I believe the Falcons will be beat. Now beyond that, we are what we are. I am happy with the win. Does it change my warm,fuzzy attitude? Not a bit! The Saints are the NFL\'s disfunctional family right now. I think that a win may be a baby step of sorts, both winning and losing are constagious.

10-14-2003, 02:25 PM	#50
JudeThaddeus Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53	Board very Quiet after Win !! Fair enough, I can\'t disagree with the luck thing. Everything we did wasn\'t luck. We have tons of talent, and the talent put in the right place, made big plays. Teams without the talent, do not make big plays. All I am saying is that when your offense is known for the big plays and you come to depend on them, when they don\'t come through you are hurtin. When I make a stab at trying to figure out the coaching, there is no way to know if I am correct. The same can be said for anything posted on this board. We are all guessing at everything. They are the best guesses we can make based on our background and knowledge base. It just makes sense to me to believe that McCarthy tried to change offenses to eliminate the late-season collapses. I could be wrong. As for the Brooks thing, we will just have to agree to disagree. I don\'t think he is much of a QB. He is average for the league as it is right now. I would not call him the future of the Saints, although I have growing fears that he is. And let me go on the record right now by saying that if Brooks suddenly becomes consistent, I will write about how wrong I was. I will buy a Brooks #2 Saints jersey, and I will put a picture of myself wearing it on this board. I can eat crow with the best of them and I don\'t know everything. I\'ve been wrong about a lot of things in my life. Now, let\'s both hope this is one of those times.
JudeThaddeus Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53