A question for all the posters here

BlackandBlue · 10-13-2003, 02:07 PM

Have you noticed where Cromwell and previously Sloan dropped these passes ???

I thought Oliver Cromwell was dead. He looks great for his age...

saintfan · 10-13-2003, 02:14 PM

Yah, but Saintz08 doesn\'t. He\'s old and tired!

:P

seraph33 · 10-13-2003, 06:11 PM

I\'m really tired of the defense of Brooks consisting of posting up stats. Stats are deceiving in this case. If you watched the game and say that Brooks had a good day, then you are just plain lying. Yes he had some dropped balls, but he also had some really badly thrown balls that should have been picked.

Examples
The pass to Pathon that they called pass interferance on Tillman. There wasn\'t any pass interference. Tillman was going for the ball and there was hardly any contact if any. That ball was thrown to the outside of pathon when he was positioned on the inside of Tillman.

Number 2 - Deep pass to Horn in the endzone. Thrown short. Horn had to stop and comeback to the ball. Also had 2 defenders right there.

Also the Bears defense had a rookie starting CB (and not a 1st rounder either) plus a few more rookie starters (I think a couple of LB\'s)

Also that Boneheaded play at the end of the half to T. Smith 5 yards short of the goaline and no timeouts. Inexcusably STUPID play. Don\'t even try to defend because you will just sound like a moron.

Did Brooks play horrible? No. Not this game. Still he didn\'t play very good either. He was playing against a banged up defense with a suspect secondary. Also the fact that Duece has been putting 100 yard games all but one game (i think) is something to look at. You are getting very good production out of the running game which opens up the passing game and you are going to show me those numbers to tell me how good Brooks is. Please if you watched the game you know he didn\'t play that well. Post the numbers all you want.

One positive: I actually caught Brooks showing some emotion in the huddle. I\'ll be damned we have waited 3 years for him to showcase so type of emotion or even leadership skills. It was a very minute occasion but still worth stating. Perhaps by season\'s end he may stop smiling after tossing an interception.

ya never know?

Saintsfan4ever · 10-14-2003, 03:14 AM

I honestly think that if Stewart and Brooks had traded jersies before the game the score would have been the same. AB played well enuff to win against the Bears, he pulled his weight, he played...well...as good as Stewart.
But we`ve seen Brooks play better football. We`ve seen him drive the secondaries crazy when he tucked the ball and ran like a halfback (and not slide into second base 3 yds short of the first down). We should have handed Chicago a much greater defeat. And if Brooks had played like the Brooks of old we would have. Brooks is not a pocket QB. Thats not his gig. And I think thats some of the reason why we can`t score in the first half. Brooks seems like he has just lost his edge, his groove. He made a name for himself being a scrabbling QB, he needs to go back to the type of game that made him our starter. If not, we`re just as well off with Bouman or J.T., Brooks is not doing anything especially good, at times he`s just \"good enuff.\"

**** Haz didn`t even mention the name Brooks at the monday press conference. How do you lead your team to victory and not even get your name mentioned by your coach? (maybe because he just didn`t do anything especially good, just good enuff.)

Thats my take...now tell me how stupid I am please.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-14-2003, 08:58 AM

I understand you guys want to blame Brooks on the lack of production in the passing game, but you should be looking at McCarthy and not Brooks. This is not the same offense we have been running the last couple of years. Really, it\'s not!! It\'s not hard to see either.

Last year there were multiple receiver sets that spread the defense out and it created favorable matchups with our speedy wide receivers. It also cleared out the 8th man in the box and once Deuce got in the secondary, he ran for long runs. This year McCarthy isn\'t doing that and it\'s hurting not only the production in the passing game, but it\'s hurting the running game too. I know Deuce still has nice numbers at the end of the game, but those are hard earned yards.

McCarthy\'s scheme isn\'t giving Brooks the matchups he needs to put up the kind of numbers we expect. Most of the time he only has 2 receivers out there and there isn\'t a lot of seperation. We are really playing an offense simular to what Carolina is running. The only problem is that our offensive line isn\'t as dominate as the Panthers. Deuce isn\'t as productive as Stephen Davis and it\'s not Deuces fault either. Deuce isn\'t that kind of back, yet McCarthy plays him like he was.

There is a reason that no one looks the same on offense this year and it\'s not that all the players on offense have changed since last year. It\'s because McCarthy changed the offense. So , before you starting pointing fingers at Brooks, you might need to question the scheme first. I don\'t see any other QB stepping in and having much more success than Brooks right now.

canucksaint · 10-14-2003, 09:36 AM

I think that most people can agree that McCarthy is also to blame. However there are many underlying problems with the whole O. That goes for the WR & TE\'s dropping passes, the O-line that can\'t stop a thing, and AB just not living up to his potential. AB can be a great QB, and he showed us that a couple of years ago. But I don\'t understand why he thinks being called a scrambling QB is such a bad thing. He wants to be a pocket passer, and McCarthy has appeased him and formed the O around that type of QB. The big problem is that he isn\'t that type of player. Who would you rather have, the QB that took over for Blake back in 2000, or the QB we have now?
(and please don\'t pull out the stat\'s to make this comparison Billy, b/c we all know that 63.47267% of stats are made up

)

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-14-2003, 09:48 AM

canucksaint --

I\'m not stating that McCarthy is ALSO to blame. I\'m saying he is MOST to blame. We can blame some bad throws and some dropped passes and if those mistakes weren\'t made, the offense would have looked better. However, the offense still wouldn\'t be as productive as last year, because it\'s not playing to the strengths of the personel.

Sure, I would like to see Brooks run more and I think it would give defenses another worry. But, it isn\'t going to reproduce the 27 TD passes and the 3,400 yards of passing we had last year. Give me the spread formations from last year over the formations we have out there this year and I think it will open everything up.

Do you guys even pay attention to what formations are out there on Sundays? It\'s not hard to see at all. It\'s just not working and it isn\'t going to work. This offense just didn\'t get that bad from last year. McCarthy just changed the offense from last year.

saintfan · 10-14-2003, 09:50 AM

Sure, blame McCarthy Billy. Sure, blame Brooks Gator.

Why is it so hard for people to acknowledge what happens on the freakin\' field? Joe Horn gets pissy cause he got overthrown...then proceeds to drop a touchdown pass that dropped righ into his hands. Oh, then, next week (last week) he dropped another one. Joe\'s not the only one either. Boo Williams is the best receiving TE we\'ve got on the Roster. Donte\' can\'t catch a cold, and if he DID catch one he\'d drop it. The only guy Brooks can have any faith in is Pathon for heaven\'s sake.

I\'m not the only one who sees this ya\'ll. The team has acknowledged it too...finally. It\'s a HUGE problem. I can\'t be 100% on it, but I don\'t think our receivers are running very good routes either. I\'m not saying Brooks shouldn\'t shoulder his share of the blame for the team\'s performance up to now, and sure, he\'s thrown some errant passes, but when the Offensive line stops killin\' drives with pentalties and the receivers start catching balls THEN we can focus more on Brooks. He is not now nor has he been the problem with this team, and anyone who says he is just isn\'t watching the game objectively...PERIOD.

Gator has lost all faith. Fine
Saintz08 never had any. Newsflash
FWtex just doesn\'t like Brooks. No brainer
Whodat is trying to come around. I\'m cautiosly optimistic.
Judethaddeusis on the fence but drunk on \"08\" cool-aid.
SaintScott25 is a realist...or is he? Time will tell.
Seraph33 sees on side of a story and only one. I bet he\'s not a lawyer.
Joesam...well, it seems the team has hurt his feelings. He\'ll be OK.

Get off the Brooks bashing bandwagon and stop drinkin\' the \"08\" cool-aid. Jake Delhomme is gone and he\'s not coming back and he\'s not playing that well anyway. C\'mon people, I, yes I, could stand back there and hand the ball to Stephen Davis 40 times a game. Get real and open your eyes. Jake has attempted 113 passes which happens to be the fewest in the NFC. He is NOT the reason for the Panthers Success.

Brooks is the 5th rated passer in the NFL
Brooks is 7th in yards (even with all the damn drops)
McAllister is the 9th rated RB in spite of our O-Line and our Coordinator. Amazing

On a final note. Isn\'t it funny that 08 makes excuses for players that doen\'t even play. He props \'em up and touts them as if he is on the Saints payroll, yet he has NEVER acknowledged Aaron Brooks has done anything good on the field. The man has an agenda people. See it. Recognize it. Don\'t buy into it. He\'s old and tired and fails to see the forest for the trees. Personally I think he\'s a closet Panthers fan. He would rather see Brooks fail than to see the team succeed. I say let the Panthers have his old butt.

canucksaint · 10-14-2003, 09:56 AM

I have to disagree with you on that one Billy. I would say that McCarty and Brooks are equals. I think that the formations are horrible, and we just can\'t get the job done because of the offensive scheme. However I think that this scheme was put in place because AB didn\'t like being called a running QB. He wanted to be known as a pocket passer. So the coaches appease him. And this is what happens. Maybe it is more McCarthy\'s fault for listening to AB and appeasing him. But maybe it\'s AB\'s fault for wanting to be something that he ain\'t. One of the biggest problems is the mentality on the sidelines. The coaches all want to appease AB, who can\'t preform like he used to becuase he want\'s to be something he can\'t be. The WR\'s want the QB of old, and can\'t catch anything from the new AB, and the O line can\'t stop a thing. Where is the HC to solve these problems? Isn\'t that what they should be doing?

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-14-2003, 09:59 AM

saintfan --

There are mistakes by everyone on the offense, but is still doesn\'t change the FACT that McCarthy isn\'t spreading the field like he did last year. Even if the receivers caught every pass this year, they still wouldn\'t be as productive as last year. Sure, they would look a hell of a lot better, but when you only have 2 receivers out on the field it sure limits your options.

I can recognize the dropped passes and the everything else that is going wrong with the offense. I can also recognize that McCarthy has 2 and 3 tightends on the field much more this year. I can also recognize that he is insistant on setting up the pass by pounding Deuce up the middle on 1st and 2nd down much more than he was last year.

10-13-2003, 02:07 PM	#11
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	A question for all the posters here Have you noticed where Cromwell and previously Sloan dropped these passes ??? I thought Oliver Cromwell was dead. He looks great for his age...

10-13-2003, 02:14 PM	#12
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	A question for all the posters here Yah, but Saintz08 doesn\'t. He\'s old and tired! :P

10-13-2003, 06:11 PM	#13
seraph33 Registered Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 68	A question for all the posters here I\'m really tired of the defense of Brooks consisting of posting up stats. Stats are deceiving in this case. If you watched the game and say that Brooks had a good day, then you are just plain lying. Yes he had some dropped balls, but he also had some really badly thrown balls that should have been picked. Examples The pass to Pathon that they called pass interferance on Tillman. There wasn\'t any pass interference. Tillman was going for the ball and there was hardly any contact if any. That ball was thrown to the outside of pathon when he was positioned on the inside of Tillman. Number 2 - Deep pass to Horn in the endzone. Thrown short. Horn had to stop and comeback to the ball. Also had 2 defenders right there. Also the Bears defense had a rookie starting CB (and not a 1st rounder either) plus a few more rookie starters (I think a couple of LB\'s) Also that Boneheaded play at the end of the half to T. Smith 5 yards short of the goaline and no timeouts. Inexcusably STUPID play. Don\'t even try to defend because you will just sound like a moron. Did Brooks play horrible? No. Not this game. Still he didn\'t play very good either. He was playing against a banged up defense with a suspect secondary. Also the fact that Duece has been putting 100 yard games all but one game (i think) is something to look at. You are getting very good production out of the running game which opens up the passing game and you are going to show me those numbers to tell me how good Brooks is. Please if you watched the game you know he didn\'t play that well. Post the numbers all you want. One positive: I actually caught Brooks showing some emotion in the huddle. I\'ll be damned we have waited 3 years for him to showcase so type of emotion or even leadership skills. It was a very minute occasion but still worth stating. Perhaps by season\'s end he may stop smiling after tossing an interception. ya never know?

10-14-2003, 03:14 AM	#14
Saintsfan4ever 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Moss Point, MS Posts: 612 Blog Entries: 1	A question for all the posters here I honestly think that if Stewart and Brooks had traded jersies before the game the score would have been the same. AB played well enuff to win against the Bears, he pulled his weight, he played...well...as good as Stewart. But we`ve seen Brooks play better football. We`ve seen him drive the secondaries crazy when he tucked the ball and ran like a halfback (and not slide into second base 3 yds short of the first down). We should have handed Chicago a much greater defeat. And if Brooks had played like the Brooks of old we would have. Brooks is not a pocket QB. Thats not his gig. And I think thats some of the reason why we can`t score in the first half. Brooks seems like he has just lost his edge, his groove. He made a name for himself being a scrabbling QB, he needs to go back to the type of game that made him our starter. If not, we`re just as well off with Bouman or J.T., Brooks is not doing anything especially good, at times he`s just \"good enuff.\" **** Haz didn`t even mention the name Brooks at the monday press conference. How do you lead your team to victory and not even get your name mentioned by your coach? (maybe because he just didn`t do anything especially good, just good enuff.) Thats my take...now tell me how stupid I am please.
	Saint4

10-14-2003, 08:58 AM	#15
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	A question for all the posters here I understand you guys want to blame Brooks on the lack of production in the passing game, but you should be looking at McCarthy and not Brooks. This is not the same offense we have been running the last couple of years. Really, it\'s not!! It\'s not hard to see either. Last year there were multiple receiver sets that spread the defense out and it created favorable matchups with our speedy wide receivers. It also cleared out the 8th man in the box and once Deuce got in the secondary, he ran for long runs. This year McCarthy isn\'t doing that and it\'s hurting not only the production in the passing game, but it\'s hurting the running game too. I know Deuce still has nice numbers at the end of the game, but those are hard earned yards. McCarthy\'s scheme isn\'t giving Brooks the matchups he needs to put up the kind of numbers we expect. Most of the time he only has 2 receivers out there and there isn\'t a lot of seperation. We are really playing an offense simular to what Carolina is running. The only problem is that our offensive line isn\'t as dominate as the Panthers. Deuce isn\'t as productive as Stephen Davis and it\'s not Deuces fault either. Deuce isn\'t that kind of back, yet McCarthy plays him like he was. There is a reason that no one looks the same on offense this year and it\'s not that all the players on offense have changed since last year. It\'s because McCarthy changed the offense. So , before you starting pointing fingers at Brooks, you might need to question the scheme first. I don\'t see any other QB stepping in and having much more success than Brooks right now.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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10-14-2003, 09:36 AM	#16
canucksaint 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 227	A question for all the posters here I think that most people can agree that McCarthy is also to blame. However there are many underlying problems with the whole O. That goes for the WR & TE\'s dropping passes, the O-line that can\'t stop a thing, and AB just not living up to his potential. AB can be a great QB, and he showed us that a couple of years ago. But I don\'t understand why he thinks being called a scrambling QB is such a bad thing. He wants to be a pocket passer, and McCarthy has appeased him and formed the O around that type of QB. The big problem is that he isn\'t that type of player. Who would you rather have, the QB that took over for Blake back in 2000, or the QB we have now? (and please don\'t pull out the stat\'s to make this comparison Billy, b/c we all know that 63.47267% of stats are made up )

10-14-2003, 09:48 AM	#17
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	A question for all the posters here canucksaint -- I\'m not stating that McCarthy is ALSO to blame. I\'m saying he is MOST to blame. We can blame some bad throws and some dropped passes and if those mistakes weren\'t made, the offense would have looked better. However, the offense still wouldn\'t be as productive as last year, because it\'s not playing to the strengths of the personel. Sure, I would like to see Brooks run more and I think it would give defenses another worry. But, it isn\'t going to reproduce the 27 TD passes and the 3,400 yards of passing we had last year. Give me the spread formations from last year over the formations we have out there this year and I think it will open everything up. Do you guys even pay attention to what formations are out there on Sundays? It\'s not hard to see at all. It\'s just not working and it isn\'t going to work. This offense just didn\'t get that bad from last year. McCarthy just changed the offense from last year.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-14-2003, 09:50 AM	#18
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	A question for all the posters here Sure, blame McCarthy Billy. Sure, blame Brooks Gator. Why is it so hard for people to acknowledge what happens on the freakin\' field? Joe Horn gets pissy cause he got overthrown...then proceeds to drop a touchdown pass that dropped righ into his hands. Oh, then, next week (last week) he dropped another one. Joe\'s not the only one either. Boo Williams is the best receiving TE we\'ve got on the Roster. Donte\' can\'t catch a cold, and if he DID catch one he\'d drop it. The only guy Brooks can have any faith in is Pathon for heaven\'s sake. I\'m not the only one who sees this ya\'ll. The team has acknowledged it too...finally. It\'s a HUGE problem. I can\'t be 100% on it, but I don\'t think our receivers are running very good routes either. I\'m not saying Brooks shouldn\'t shoulder his share of the blame for the team\'s performance up to now, and sure, he\'s thrown some errant passes, but when the Offensive line stops killin\' drives with pentalties and the receivers start catching balls THEN we can focus more on Brooks. He is not now nor has he been the problem with this team, and anyone who says he is just isn\'t watching the game objectively...PERIOD. Gator has lost all faith. Fine Saintz08 never had any. Newsflash FWtex just doesn\'t like Brooks. No brainer Whodat is trying to come around. I\'m cautiosly optimistic. Judethaddeusis on the fence but drunk on \"08\" cool-aid. SaintScott25 is a realist...or is he? Time will tell. Seraph33 sees on side of a story and only one. I bet he\'s not a lawyer. Joesam...well, it seems the team has hurt his feelings. He\'ll be OK. Get off the Brooks bashing bandwagon and stop drinkin\' the \"08\" cool-aid. Jake Delhomme is gone and he\'s not coming back and he\'s not playing that well anyway. C\'mon people, I, yes I, could stand back there and hand the ball to Stephen Davis 40 times a game. Get real and open your eyes. Jake has attempted 113 passes which happens to be the fewest in the NFC. He is NOT the reason for the Panthers Success. Brooks is the 5th rated passer in the NFL Brooks is 7th in yards (even with all the damn drops) McAllister is the 9th rated RB in spite of our O-Line and our Coordinator. Amazing On a final note. Isn\'t it funny that 08 makes excuses for players that doen\'t even play. He props \'em up and touts them as if he is on the Saints payroll, yet he has NEVER acknowledged Aaron Brooks has done anything good on the field. The man has an agenda people. See it. Recognize it. Don\'t buy into it. He\'s old and tired and fails to see the forest for the trees. Personally I think he\'s a closet Panthers fan. He would rather see Brooks fail than to see the team succeed. I say let the Panthers have his old butt.
	C'mon Man...

10-14-2003, 09:56 AM	#19
canucksaint 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 227	A question for all the posters here I have to disagree with you on that one Billy. I would say that McCarty and Brooks are equals. I think that the formations are horrible, and we just can\'t get the job done because of the offensive scheme. However I think that this scheme was put in place because AB didn\'t like being called a running QB. He wanted to be known as a pocket passer. So the coaches appease him. And this is what happens. Maybe it is more McCarthy\'s fault for listening to AB and appeasing him. But maybe it\'s AB\'s fault for wanting to be something that he ain\'t. One of the biggest problems is the mentality on the sidelines. The coaches all want to appease AB, who can\'t preform like he used to becuase he want\'s to be something he can\'t be. The WR\'s want the QB of old, and can\'t catch anything from the new AB, and the O line can\'t stop a thing. Where is the HC to solve these problems? Isn\'t that what they should be doing?

10-14-2003, 09:59 AM	#20
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	A question for all the posters here saintfan -- There are mistakes by everyone on the offense, but is still doesn\'t change the FACT that McCarthy isn\'t spreading the field like he did last year. Even if the receivers caught every pass this year, they still wouldn\'t be as productive as last year. Sure, they would look a hell of a lot better, but when you only have 2 receivers out on the field it sure limits your options. I can recognize the dropped passes and the everything else that is going wrong with the offense. I can also recognize that McCarthy has 2 and 3 tightends on the field much more this year. I can also recognize that he is insistant on setting up the pass by pounding Deuce up the middle on 1st and 2nd down much more than he was last year.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209