The Elephant in the room.....

spkb25 · 09-12-2010, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

Private money.... Where did they get all that money? From the FANS. Yes they provided the initial investments, to build the team, but without the consumers, buying their products, they would be dead in the water.

Private VS Public refers to (and I know you know this) independent of the Gov, or run by the gov.

The main difference is choice- people can choose to spend the money for this product (the NFL). If they do not want their product they won't buy it.

The Government forces you to buy their product. There is no choice.

Your other point though Saint Paul- I don't know what is going to happen if they lock out. They will all lose money- it will not be good for anyone

SaintPauly · 09-12-2010, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

Private VS Public refers to (and I know you know this) independent of the Gov, or run by the gov.

The main difference is choice- people can choose to spend the money for this product (the NFL). If they do not want their product they won't buy it.

The Government forces you to buy their product. There is no choice.

Your other point though Saint Paul- I don't know what is going to happen if they lock out. They will all lose money- it will not be good for anyone

My point was, that as fans, who support these organizations, with our money, we do have a right to our opinions on these matters. The majority of the money spent on players, stadiums, and etc, comes from the purchases made by us, the fans. Now, once I spend it, I reallize it isn't mine anymore. But at the same time, if I buy a television, and it doesn't work, you better believe I'm gonna want my money back. Billionaires, or not, without the fans, these franchises would fall flat on their butts, and they know that.

spkb25 · 09-12-2010, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

My point was, that as fans, who support these organizations, with our money, we do have a right to our opinions on these matters. The majority of the money spent on players, stadiums, and etc, comes from the purchases made by us, the fans. Now, once I spend it, I reallize it isn't mine anymore. But at the same time, if I buy a television, and it doesn't work, you better believe I'm gonna want my money back. Billionaires, or not, without the fans, these franchises would fall flat on their butts, and they know that.

sure you can have an opinion, and you can keep from spending money, as well as watching games. if enough people do that- it will have an impact.

they're just not going to listen to you when it comes to their pay roll

SaintPauly · 09-12-2010, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

sure you can have an opinion, and you can keep from spending money, as well as watching games. if enough people do that- it will have an impact.

they're just not going to listen to you when it comes to their pay roll

I don't agree with this either. When fans get fed up with coaches, and players, if they raise enough hell, management eventually gets the message, and makes a change. I'm not saying they are going to call us to see who we should, and shouldn't sign, but the fans have alot more influence than you seem to acknowledge.

spkb25 · 09-12-2010, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

I don't agree with this either. When fans get fed up with coaches, and players, if they raise enough hell, management eventually gets the message, and makes a change. I'm not saying they are going to call us to see who we should, and shouldn't sign, but the fans have alot more influence than you seem to acknowledge.

If this was really the case the Saints would have folded a long time ago- they didn't win a playoff game for more than 30 years of their existence.

I do agree that when the quality of their product is suffering they do look to improve it- as a business you have to, but that has nothing to do with their right to pay their employees. They don't listen to you on that. Not at all. That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that.

SaintPauly · 09-12-2010, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

If this was really the case the Saints would have folded a long time ago- they didn't win a playoff game for more than 30 years of their existence.

I do agree that when the quality of their product is suffering they do look to improve it- as a business you have to, but that has nothing to do with their right to pay their employees. They don't listen to you on that. Not at all. That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that.

Ok then. So you don't agree with the salary cap.

"That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that."

If an owner has the right to decide what a player is worth, and not the player, then the price has to be able to go both ways right? If Jerry Jones decides that he wants to pay Drew Brees 20 million dollars more, than the Saints have to offer, then he should be able to do that right? It's his money. It's his "private" money.

spkb25 · 09-13-2010, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

Ok then. So you don't agree with the salary cap.

"That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that."

If an owner has the right to decide what a player is worth, and not the player, then the price has to be able to go both ways right? If Jerry Jones decides that he wants to pay Drew Brees 20 million dollars more, than the Saints have to offer, then he should be able to do that right? It's his money. It's his "private" money.

I don't know what you mean by both ways. The player decides whether he is willing to play for that amount- he doesn't have to.

Yes, accept where there are binding agreements otherwise. Whatever rules and/or laws the NFL has set up would have to be followed.

SP- If the money doesn't belong to you you can't direct it. Why would you feel you have that right? That is a strange concept to me.

spkb25 · 09-13-2010, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

Ok then. So you don't agree with the salary cap.

"That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that."

If an owner has the right to decide what a player is worth, and not the player, then the price has to be able to go both ways right? If Jerry Jones decides that he wants to pay Drew Brees 20 million dollars more, than the Saints have to offer, then he should be able to do that right? It's his money. It's his "private" money.

Also, how did we get on this topic- my original post was against the idea that teachers and the police, etc should be paid more than athletes if someone is willing to pay athletes more.

SaintPauly · 09-12-2010, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

Private VS Public refers to (and I know you know this) independent of the Gov, or run by the gov.

The main difference is choice- people can choose to spend the money for this product (the NFL). If they do not want their product they won't buy it.

The Government forces you to buy their product. There is no choice.

Your other point though Saint Paul- I don't know what is going to happen if they lock out. They will all lose money- it will not be good for anyone

Another point on this I want to bring up is, exactly what you said: private money. With free agency, each player could be considered, a business to themselves. We all shout from the rooftops about salary caps, and how that "balances" the competitive scales, and makes it to where small market teams, such as the Saints, can have a chance to win championships. We blast owners like Jerry Jones, and Daniel Snyder, for trying to spend their "private money", to buy players, that small market teams cannot, to win championships. Now, if I read something wrong into your views on this issue, i apologize, but it seems to me, that you aren't a fan of the cap. You believe, in your own words, that a man should be allowed to spend his private money, as he sees fit, right? Then in that mindframe, it seems to me, that you would also have to believe, that owners should be allowed to spend as much of THEIR MONEY, as they want, to buy as many players as they want. That is the impression you are giving.

09-12-2010, 10:07 AM	#1
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,147	Originally Posted by saintpaul25 Private money.... Where did they get all that money? From the FANS. Yes they provided the initial investments, to build the team, but without the consumers, buying their products, they would be dead in the water. Private VS Public refers to (and I know you know this) independent of the Gov, or run by the gov. The main difference is choice- people can choose to spend the money for this product (the NFL). If they do not want their product they won't buy it. The Government forces you to buy their product. There is no choice. Your other point though Saint Paul- I don't know what is going to happen if they lock out. They will all lose money- it will not be good for anyone

09-12-2010, 07:33 PM	#2
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Originally Posted by spkb25 Private VS Public refers to (and I know you know this) independent of the Gov, or run by the gov. The main difference is choice- people can choose to spend the money for this product (the NFL). If they do not want their product they won't buy it. The Government forces you to buy their product. There is no choice. Your other point though Saint Paul- I don't know what is going to happen if they lock out. They will all lose money- it will not be good for anyone My point was, that as fans, who support these organizations, with our money, we do have a right to our opinions on these matters. The majority of the money spent on players, stadiums, and etc, comes from the purchases made by us, the fans. Now, once I spend it, I reallize it isn't mine anymore. But at the same time, if I buy a television, and it doesn't work, you better believe I'm gonna want my money back. Billionaires, or not, without the fans, these franchises would fall flat on their butts, and they know that.

09-12-2010, 08:54 PM	#3
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,147	Originally Posted by saintpaul25 My point was, that as fans, who support these organizations, with our money, we do have a right to our opinions on these matters. The majority of the money spent on players, stadiums, and etc, comes from the purchases made by us, the fans. Now, once I spend it, I reallize it isn't mine anymore. But at the same time, if I buy a television, and it doesn't work, you better believe I'm gonna want my money back. Billionaires, or not, without the fans, these franchises would fall flat on their butts, and they know that. sure you can have an opinion, and you can keep from spending money, as well as watching games. if enough people do that- it will have an impact. they're just not going to listen to you when it comes to their pay roll

09-12-2010, 09:30 PM	#4
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Originally Posted by spkb25 sure you can have an opinion, and you can keep from spending money, as well as watching games. if enough people do that- it will have an impact. they're just not going to listen to you when it comes to their pay roll I don't agree with this either. When fans get fed up with coaches, and players, if they raise enough hell, management eventually gets the message, and makes a change. I'm not saying they are going to call us to see who we should, and shouldn't sign, but the fans have alot more influence than you seem to acknowledge.

09-12-2010, 10:29 PM	#5
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,147	Originally Posted by saintpaul25 I don't agree with this either. When fans get fed up with coaches, and players, if they raise enough hell, management eventually gets the message, and makes a change. I'm not saying they are going to call us to see who we should, and shouldn't sign, but the fans have alot more influence than you seem to acknowledge. If this was really the case the Saints would have folded a long time ago- they didn't win a playoff game for more than 30 years of their existence. I do agree that when the quality of their product is suffering they do look to improve it- as a business you have to, but that has nothing to do with their right to pay their employees. They don't listen to you on that. Not at all. That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that.
	Your team stinks

09-12-2010, 10:31 PM	#6
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Originally Posted by spkb25 If this was really the case the Saints would have folded a long time ago- they didn't win a playoff game for more than 30 years of their existence. I do agree that when the quality of their product is suffering they do look to improve it- as a business you have to, but that has nothing to do with their right to pay their employees. They don't listen to you on that. Not at all. That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that. Ok then. So you don't agree with the salary cap. "That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that." If an owner has the right to decide what a player is worth, and not the player, then the price has to be able to go both ways right? If Jerry Jones decides that he wants to pay Drew Brees 20 million dollars more, than the Saints have to offer, then he should be able to do that right? It's his money. It's his "private" money.
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular..... Last edited by SaintPauly; 09-12-2010 at 10:37 PM..

09-13-2010, 01:17 AM	#7
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,147	Originally Posted by saintpaul25 Ok then. So you don't agree with the salary cap. "That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that." If an owner has the right to decide what a player is worth, and not the player, then the price has to be able to go both ways right? If Jerry Jones decides that he wants to pay Drew Brees 20 million dollars more, than the Saints have to offer, then he should be able to do that right? It's his money. It's his "private" money. I don't know what you mean by both ways. The player decides whether he is willing to play for that amount- he doesn't have to. Yes, accept where there are binding agreements otherwise. Whatever rules and/or laws the NFL has set up would have to be followed. SP- If the money doesn't belong to you you can't direct it. Why would you feel you have that right? That is a strange concept to me.

09-13-2010, 01:21 AM	#8
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,147	Originally Posted by saintpaul25 Ok then. So you don't agree with the salary cap. "That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that." If an owner has the right to decide what a player is worth, and not the player, then the price has to be able to go both ways right? If Jerry Jones decides that he wants to pay Drew Brees 20 million dollars more, than the Saints have to offer, then he should be able to do that right? It's his money. It's his "private" money. Also, how did we get on this topic- my original post was against the idea that teachers and the police, etc should be paid more than athletes if someone is willing to pay athletes more.

09-12-2010, 10:20 PM	#9
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Originally Posted by spkb25 Private VS Public refers to (and I know you know this) independent of the Gov, or run by the gov. The main difference is choice- people can choose to spend the money for this product (the NFL). If they do not want their product they won't buy it. The Government forces you to buy their product. There is no choice. Your other point though Saint Paul- I don't know what is going to happen if they lock out. They will all lose money- it will not be good for anyone Another point on this I want to bring up is, exactly what you said: private money. With free agency, each player could be considered, a business to themselves. We all shout from the rooftops about salary caps, and how that "balances" the competitive scales, and makes it to where small market teams, such as the Saints, can have a chance to win championships. We blast owners like Jerry Jones, and Daniel Snyder, for trying to spend their "private money", to buy players, that small market teams cannot, to win championships. Now, if I read something wrong into your views on this issue, i apologize, but it seems to me, that you aren't a fan of the cap. You believe, in your own words, that a man should be allowed to spend his private money, as he sees fit, right? Then in that mindframe, it seems to me, that you would also have to believe, that owners should be allowed to spend as much of THEIR MONEY, as they want, to buy as many players as they want. That is the impression you are giving.
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....