Don't take MY word for it...

saintfan · 10-21-2003, 03:23 PM

A warning to ANYone drinkin the "08" Kool-Aid. What you are about to read are quotes from an article writte by Dan Pompei...writer for the Sporting News. You've heard it all before, particularly from ME and BILLYC, but here it is again, only now you don't have to take MY word for it...

"The only way they could make big plays is if we missed tackles and blew coverages," Titans safety Lance Schulters said afterward. "Their quarterback stares down their receivers and gets them blown up." -- Schulters on Jake Delhomme

"Their strength is their ability to run the football and play-action pass," Titans coach Jeff Fisher says. "If you can get them out of that in a dropback situation, then you have a chance to match up, and that's what we wanted to do."

You can trust Delhomme to water the plants, walk the dog and take out the trash. A caretaker is what he is, capable of performing simple tasks. The Panthers don't expect him to be a precision craftsman. In fact, they might not know what to do with him if he were. "We could have John Elway here, and we'd be the same way we are now," Fox says.

"The only thing you worry about against them is not getting outmanned," Falcons cornerback Ray Buchanan says. "You know they're not going to be passing like crazy. It is a little bit easier to game-plan them."

There are no illusions in the Carolina offense. Muhammad says his team has gone into a game with as few as three or four running plays and four or five passing plays, though the Panthers use them out of many different formations. It's the simplest offense Muhammad has been in since high school. "We don't do a whole lot, but we do it with precision," he says.

The Panthers probably run more single-receiver formations than any team in football. Even when they intend to pass, the Panthers use mostly two- and three-man routes, choosing to devote extra men to protecting Delhomme. "They make it so you can't get to him, because he'll make bad decisions with the ball," one NFC head coach says. "If you can get a 14-point lead, you have a chance because they'll have to throw it up."

"He's not the best quarterback I've ever seen," Buchanan says. "If you put him in passing situations, I think you can see a lot of signs of weaknesses. But if they're running the ball that well, Delhomme can look like he's one of the better quarterbacks because he doesn't have to do anything. It almost reminds me of Trent Dilfer when he was with Baltimore."

Below is a link to the entire article. Some of you will love it, and others won't. Suffice it to say it's nothing new...nothing those of us with open eyes didn't already know!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...=tsn&type=lgns

[Edited on 21/10/2003 by saintfan]

saintz08 · 10-23-2003, 04:27 PM

Well, in my opinion MOST teams are running a VARIATION, but one cannot say we are a \"West Coast\" offense cause we\'re not. Not in the purest form.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What variation are the Saints running ???

Define it ...............

What was significant about the Falcons game , as opposed to 6 other games this season ??

saintfan · 10-23-2003, 04:29 PM

How would you know if I told you. Weren\'t you watching the Panthers game?

saintfan · 10-23-2003, 04:41 PM

OK 08, I\'ll bite. You\'re fun to screw with anyway. The less sense you make the more obvious you become and I know there are a least a few members on this board like me that probably get a pretty good kick out of watching you squirm.

Remember this is just my OPINION ok?

The West Coast offense in it\'s purest form uses short timing-based patters with up to 5 receivers in the formation. In it\'s \"purest\" form is employs the short passing attack to replace the running game.

Now, that\'s my definition ok? Do the Saints run a \"variation\" of that. Perhaps. There are LOTS of teams that run a variation of the original \"West Coast\" offense, but it\'s become a catch phrase and is accurate only if you are willing to grant some pretty generous edges to the definition.

AND, since you don\'t wanna answer it on the other thread I started, I\'ll ask you here too. Which team will you be rooting for come Sunday? Or should I say which Player?

saintz08 · 10-23-2003, 04:54 PM

Saintsfan , do you need glasses like Billy ????

The question was :
What was significant about the Falcons game , as opposed to 6 other games this season ??

Your reply :
How would you know if I told you. Weren\'t you watching the Panthers game?

Put down the crack pipe and back away from the keyboard , Saintsfan .

Now on to :

The West Coast offense in it\'s purest form uses short timing-based patters with up to 5 receivers in the formation. In it\'s \"purest\" form is employs the short passing attack to replace the running game.

I hope you meant :
In it\'s \" Purest \" form it employs a short passing attack to set up the running game .

Now on to :

OK 08, I\'ll bite. You\'re fun to screw with anyway. The less sense you make the more obvious you become and I know there are a least a few members on this board like me that probably get a pretty good kick out of watching you squirm.

F.Y.I. :

That squirming sensation is me trying to make sense out of what you post ....

saintfan · 10-23-2003, 03:31 PM

It\'s been called a number of things Whodat...the \"Gulf Coast\" offense among other things.

08 trys to define the West Coast offense and then show how the Saints conform to it, but if you look back at the West Coast offense as it was cenceived this surely ain\'t it. Is it a variation? Well, in my opinion MOST teams are running a VARIATION, but one cannot say we are a \"West Coast\" offense cause we\'re not. Not in the purest form.

We run what we run. Futhermore the issue isn\'t the offense we\'re running, it\'s 08\'s attempt to indicate that Brooks isn\'t the right guy for it...whatever you call it. You know as well as I do that he\'ll try and show Brooks is incapable or inadequit for WHATEVER this team does offensively. His agenda puts him squarely opposite of fairplay Whodat. I\'m quite surprised to see you coming to his rescue!

WhoDat · 10-23-2003, 03:08 PM

And again, if you think the offense the Saints run is a \"West Coast\" offense you\'re drinkin\' too much of your own Kool-Aid.

What offense are the Saints running ??? We should alert the press .

Very good question. What offense do you believe the Saints are running Saintfan? This year\'s team has looked more like a West Coast team than ever - in my opinion.

tweeky · 10-21-2003, 03:55 PM

I think there are some valid points in that article as to why Delhomme isn\'t the answer here at QB (over Brooks). But I, and many others will point to his positives when arguing if he should have replaced an obviously injured Brooks last year.
True, he won\'t win many shootouts but his conservative style of play may have won a game or two down the stretch last year. He would run a true West coast Offense pretty well.
Unfortunately too many people use last years slide to over-hype Delhomme\'s ability.
After all, the most popular player on a losing team is the back-up QB. And if he\'s a beloved local boy, hatred for the starter is inevitable.

Yes, Jake could run this team fairly well considering the weapons we have on offense, but a comparison to Brooks\' talent is pretty weak.

I think the Jake lovers will slowly fade out over time.

WhoDat · 10-21-2003, 04:48 PM

Hey man, this is nothing new. I\'ve said this in the past. I\'ve compared Delhomme to Dilfer. He is Dilfer - he\'s a good game manager. Say what you will, but the Ravens won a Super Bowl with Dilfer. Tampa went to the Bowl with Johnson (same idea - manage the game and don\'t make mistakes).

My argument has never been that Delhomme is more talented. I\'m not sure anyone\'s has been. My argument is twofold - 1) QBs like Delhomme have had more success than QBs like McNabb and Vick since... well, forever, and 2) Our system is built for a drop back pocket passer who can make quick reads, get the ball out, and limit the mistakes. Brooks is becoming that kind of a guy, and I think he is showing more and more that he can be successful in this type of system - but that\'s not his natural style of play and you all know it.

saintfan · 10-21-2003, 04:54 PM

This was meant more for Saintz08 than anyone Whodat. But I think what it really shows it that at this particular time Jake is neither Dilfer nor is he Brooks. He very raw and inexperienced. He threw a five yard slant on the mark against Tampa Bay last year and 08 thinks he\'s God. I\'m only trying to show that Jake Delhomme isn\'t the end all for QB\'s the way 08 has attempted to indicate he was. Now the league has something to measure Jake by and his grade is avearge...at best!

10-21-2003, 03:23 PM	#1
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Don't take MY word for it... A warning to ANYone drinkin the "08" Kool-Aid. What you are about to read are quotes from an article writte by Dan Pompei...writer for the Sporting News. You've heard it all before, particularly from ME and BILLYC, but here it is again, only now you don't have to take MY word for it... "The only way they could make big plays is if we missed tackles and blew coverages," Titans safety Lance Schulters said afterward. "Their quarterback stares down their receivers and gets them blown up." -- Schulters on Jake Delhomme "Their strength is their ability to run the football and play-action pass," Titans coach Jeff Fisher says. "If you can get them out of that in a dropback situation, then you have a chance to match up, and that's what we wanted to do." You can trust Delhomme to water the plants, walk the dog and take out the trash. A caretaker is what he is, capable of performing simple tasks. The Panthers don't expect him to be a precision craftsman. In fact, they might not know what to do with him if he were. "We could have John Elway here, and we'd be the same way we are now," Fox says. "The only thing you worry about against them is not getting outmanned," Falcons cornerback Ray Buchanan says. "You know they're not going to be passing like crazy. It is a little bit easier to game-plan them." There are no illusions in the Carolina offense. Muhammad says his team has gone into a game with as few as three or four running plays and four or five passing plays, though the Panthers use them out of many different formations. It's the simplest offense Muhammad has been in since high school. "We don't do a whole lot, but we do it with precision," he says. The Panthers probably run more single-receiver formations than any team in football. Even when they intend to pass, the Panthers use mostly two- and three-man routes, choosing to devote extra men to protecting Delhomme. "They make it so you can't get to him, because he'll make bad decisions with the ball," one NFC head coach says. "If you can get a 14-point lead, you have a chance because they'll have to throw it up." "He's not the best quarterback I've ever seen," Buchanan says. "If you put him in passing situations, I think you can see a lot of signs of weaknesses. But if they're running the ball that well, Delhomme can look like he's one of the better quarterbacks because he doesn't have to do anything. It almost reminds me of Trent Dilfer when he was with Baltimore." Below is a link to the entire article. Some of you will love it, and others won't. Suffice it to say it's nothing new...nothing those of us with open eyes didn't already know! http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...=tsn&type=lgns [Edited on 21/10/2003 by saintfan]

10-23-2003, 04:27 PM	#2
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Don't take MY word for it... Well, in my opinion MOST teams are running a VARIATION, but one cannot say we are a \"West Coast\" offense cause we\'re not. Not in the purest form. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What variation are the Saints running ??? Define it ............... What was significant about the Falcons game , as opposed to 6 other games this season ??
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

10-23-2003, 04:29 PM	#3
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Don't take MY word for it... How would you know if I told you. Weren\'t you watching the Panthers game?

10-23-2003, 04:41 PM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Don't take MY word for it... OK 08, I\'ll bite. You\'re fun to screw with anyway. The less sense you make the more obvious you become and I know there are a least a few members on this board like me that probably get a pretty good kick out of watching you squirm. Remember this is just my OPINION ok? The West Coast offense in it\'s purest form uses short timing-based patters with up to 5 receivers in the formation. In it\'s \"purest\" form is employs the short passing attack to replace the running game. Now, that\'s my definition ok? Do the Saints run a \"variation\" of that. Perhaps. There are LOTS of teams that run a variation of the original \"West Coast\" offense, but it\'s become a catch phrase and is accurate only if you are willing to grant some pretty generous edges to the definition. AND, since you don\'t wanna answer it on the other thread I started, I\'ll ask you here too. Which team will you be rooting for come Sunday? Or should I say which Player?
	C'mon Man...

10-23-2003, 04:54 PM	#5
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Don't take MY word for it... Saintsfan , do you need glasses like Billy ???? The question was : What was significant about the Falcons game , as opposed to 6 other games this season ?? Your reply : How would you know if I told you. Weren\'t you watching the Panthers game? Put down the crack pipe and back away from the keyboard , Saintsfan . Now on to : The West Coast offense in it\'s purest form uses short timing-based patters with up to 5 receivers in the formation. In it\'s \"purest\" form is employs the short passing attack to replace the running game. I hope you meant : In it\'s \" Purest \" form it employs a short passing attack to set up the running game . Now on to : OK 08, I\'ll bite. You\'re fun to screw with anyway. The less sense you make the more obvious you become and I know there are a least a few members on this board like me that probably get a pretty good kick out of watching you squirm. F.Y.I. : That squirming sensation is me trying to make sense out of what you post ....
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

10-23-2003, 03:31 PM	#6
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Don't take MY word for it... It\'s been called a number of things Whodat...the \"Gulf Coast\" offense among other things. 08 trys to define the West Coast offense and then show how the Saints conform to it, but if you look back at the West Coast offense as it was cenceived this surely ain\'t it. Is it a variation? Well, in my opinion MOST teams are running a VARIATION, but one cannot say we are a \"West Coast\" offense cause we\'re not. Not in the purest form. We run what we run. Futhermore the issue isn\'t the offense we\'re running, it\'s 08\'s attempt to indicate that Brooks isn\'t the right guy for it...whatever you call it. You know as well as I do that he\'ll try and show Brooks is incapable or inadequit for WHATEVER this team does offensively. His agenda puts him squarely opposite of fairplay Whodat. I\'m quite surprised to see you coming to his rescue!
	C'mon Man...

10-23-2003, 03:08 PM	#7
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Don't take MY word for it... And again, if you think the offense the Saints run is a \"West Coast\" offense you\'re drinkin\' too much of your own Kool-Aid. What offense are the Saints running ??? We should alert the press . Very good question. What offense do you believe the Saints are running Saintfan? This year\'s team has looked more like a West Coast team than ever - in my opinion.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

10-21-2003, 03:55 PM	#8
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Don't take MY word for it... I think there are some valid points in that article as to why Delhomme isn\'t the answer here at QB (over Brooks). But I, and many others will point to his positives when arguing if he should have replaced an obviously injured Brooks last year. True, he won\'t win many shootouts but his conservative style of play may have won a game or two down the stretch last year. He would run a true West coast Offense pretty well. Unfortunately too many people use last years slide to over-hype Delhomme\'s ability. After all, the most popular player on a losing team is the back-up QB. And if he\'s a beloved local boy, hatred for the starter is inevitable. Yes, Jake could run this team fairly well considering the weapons we have on offense, but a comparison to Brooks\' talent is pretty weak. I think the Jake lovers will slowly fade out over time.
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

10-21-2003, 04:48 PM	#9
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Don't take MY word for it... Hey man, this is nothing new. I\'ve said this in the past. I\'ve compared Delhomme to Dilfer. He is Dilfer - he\'s a good game manager. Say what you will, but the Ravens won a Super Bowl with Dilfer. Tampa went to the Bowl with Johnson (same idea - manage the game and don\'t make mistakes). My argument has never been that Delhomme is more talented. I\'m not sure anyone\'s has been. My argument is twofold - 1) QBs like Delhomme have had more success than QBs like McNabb and Vick since... well, forever, and 2) Our system is built for a drop back pocket passer who can make quick reads, get the ball out, and limit the mistakes. Brooks is becoming that kind of a guy, and I think he is showing more and more that he can be successful in this type of system - but that\'s not his natural style of play and you all know it.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

10-21-2003, 04:54 PM	#10
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Don't take MY word for it... This was meant more for Saintz08 than anyone Whodat. But I think what it really shows it that at this particular time Jake is neither Dilfer nor is he Brooks. He very raw and inexperienced. He threw a five yard slant on the mark against Tampa Bay last year and 08 thinks he\'s God. I\'m only trying to show that Jake Delhomme isn\'t the end all for QB\'s the way 08 has attempted to indicate he was. Now the league has something to measure Jake by and his grade is avearge...at best!

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