Are the Saints Playing not to Lose?

pherein · 09-30-2010, 03:22 AM

Brees was 74%, 30/38, 365 yrds, 3 TDs. Ball on the 11 yard line with very little to stop us on a 1st down. The norm would be to punch it in, attack.
Instead the CS uses stats? 97% of FG had from that distance are completed and no kicker has missed since 2005. Good stats and a smart choice, but is that the Saints?
I have not seen much to disprove we still have one of the best teams in the NFL. I think our players are pretty solid.
But has the CS, on both sides of the ball lost that hunger, and decided to play it safe?
Example SF passed on us in high wind successfully, but we opted for a run game that failed. Cant Brees pass better than Smith in the wind? Id call that safe
We kick on the 11th on 1st when theres very little chance the Falcons can stop us in the redzone, because they haven't the entire game . Id call that safe.
Is Payton playing not to lose? But our players are fine? I am not sure of this myself, but it does seem likely to me that the players are following, and the CS has lost its hunger. I would explain a great many things. This does not seem to be the "go for it all"" Saints calling Im used to. And its not last game , its the last 3.

We could have blown out the vikings by 20pts, SF 4 TO thats usually a blowout for us, and Falcons are better but clearly we were better without bush and shaper, why not strike, numbers prove they couldn't stop us, when we try. Are we not, anymore, trying to scrap and claw our way to the top, in regards to the CS?

Discuss..lol, just a thought I want worked out.

Rugby Saint II · 09-30-2010, 01:43 PM

One calculated decision does not mean that we are plying it safe......Hartley missed. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Payton isn't playing it safe nor is GW. They are doing their best to mix things up so that we don't become predictable on film. We are seeing lots of new looks and personnel packages. Payton may out think himself occasionally but he's also trying to stay one step ahead of the other coaches.

cablebandit · 09-30-2010, 03:18 PM

Brees was feeling some pressure at times which Im sure were factors in his mistakes. The FG was absolutely the right call....Brees was already hurt a little....could have sustained a season ending injury trying to score a TD. A TD was not a certainty....if it were all that easy, they would not have been in overtime to begin with.

lumm0x · 09-30-2010, 05:35 PM

It was the right call. We had approximately a 5% chance of losing and the dice rolled against us. It failed. End of story.

We are the champs. We will see everyone's A+ effort against us and a game against us will always be someone else's season Super Bowl. There will be no easy wins and the players need to be hungrier. This loss and some sloppy turnovers will end up doing us some good by allowing weaknesses to be addressed and for a reality slap to the players. We will not always find a way to win when the chips are done. Let's not leave it to chance and finish it before the 60 mins expire.

jlouhill · 09-30-2010, 06:16 PM

I think it was the right call. The odds were overwhelmingly in our favor. It just didn't work out. One of those things.
Had we played our game and not had those turnovers it never would have gone to OT to begin with. I think this will be a reality check for the players. I'm looking for a statement game this Sunday against Carolina. I think we need to come out hard and fast with the pedal to the metal and not let up until the whistle blows to end the game. I'm not an advocate for running up the score but if there's a time to let the rest of the league know that we are still here and we mean business it's now. JMO

DRsaints · 09-30-2010, 07:51 PM

I don't think we're really playing safe. I think we just need to get into the groove of the season and hit our stride. In all honesty we haven't played to the standard that we're capable. It's only a matter of time until we get to that point.

Euphoria · 09-30-2010, 07:53 PM

You have to keep in mind we are DEFENDING SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS. Teams are also giving us there A game.

DRsaints · 09-30-2010, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

You have to keep in mind we are DEFENDING SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS. Teams are also giving us there A game.

Yes, this is very true as well. Look at how the 49ers played us close compared to sucking something terrible against bad teams.

pherein · 10-01-2010, 03:45 AM

Yeah, I tend to agree with most of you. It was a good call to kick the FG. Just thought it warranted bringing up that our play calling might have been a little safe in the last 3 games. Hadn't heard that brought up as a possibility before. I still find it kind of funny that even with 3 OT's we still pretty much won that game, if not for a fluke FG miss.

But has anyone noticed that our secondary seems to be playing below their ability? Love sharpers tweet:
"I'm mad I'm out of this game. You know I like those rookie quarterbacks." - Darren Sharper,

over the drive charts of the Saints from 2009 and 2010 so far and counted red zone plays in the fourth quarter and overtime where the Saints were either down, tied, or ahead by one score. There were 61 scrimmage plays ( discounted field goals [obviously] and the entire week 17 rest-your-starters game) in those situations, and they resulted in 16 scores, 4 failed scores (3 missed field goals and an unsuccessful fake) and zero turnovers.

Here are the games looked at:

Code:

Week		Plays		Scores		TO		NO POINTS
4		3		1
7		10		3
8		5		1
9		4		1
13		7		2
14		8		1				1
15		5		2
16		0						1
NFCCG		3		1		
SB		4		1

1		3						1
2		8		2
3		1		1				1

Tot		61		16		0		4

Now obviously this is a small sample size, comprising approximately 5% of all plays the Saints ran in the qualifying range of games. But there is nothing here to suggest that there is something dangerous about taking shots at the end zone in this situation.

There does seem to be something dangerous about letting Garrett Hartley kick field goals, however.

jeanpierre · 10-01-2010, 07:54 AM

Has Jim Mora kidnapped Sean Payton and is roaming the sidelines chewing Juicy Fruit gum?!?

09-30-2010, 03:22 AM	#1
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Are the Saints Playing not to Lose? Brees was 74%, 30/38, 365 yrds, 3 TDs. Ball on the 11 yard line with very little to stop us on a 1st down. The norm would be to punch it in, attack. Instead the CS uses stats? 97% of FG had from that distance are completed and no kicker has missed since 2005. Good stats and a smart choice, but is that the Saints? I have not seen much to disprove we still have one of the best teams in the NFL. I think our players are pretty solid. But has the CS, on both sides of the ball lost that hunger, and decided to play it safe? Example SF passed on us in high wind successfully, but we opted for a run game that failed. Cant Brees pass better than Smith in the wind? Id call that safe We kick on the 11th on 1st when theres very little chance the Falcons can stop us in the redzone, because they haven't the entire game . Id call that safe. Is Payton playing not to lose? But our players are fine? I am not sure of this myself, but it does seem likely to me that the players are following, and the CS has lost its hunger. I would explain a great many things. This does not seem to be the "go for it all"" Saints calling Im used to. And its not last game , its the last 3. We could have blown out the vikings by 20pts, SF 4 TO thats usually a blowout for us, and Falcons are better but clearly we were better without bush and shaper, why not strike, numbers prove they couldn't stop us, when we try. Are we not, anymore, trying to scrap and claw our way to the top, in regards to the CS? Discuss..lol, just a thought I want worked out.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 09-30-2010 at 05:11 AM..

09-30-2010, 03:18 PM	#3
cablebandit Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 76	Brees was feeling some pressure at times which Im sure were factors in his mistakes. The FG was absolutely the right call....Brees was already hurt a little....could have sustained a season ending injury trying to score a TD. A TD was not a certainty....if it were all that easy, they would not have been in overtime to begin with.
cablebandit Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 76

09-30-2010, 07:51 PM	#6
DRsaints 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 166	I don't think we're really playing safe. I think we just need to get into the groove of the season and hit our stride. In all honesty we haven't played to the standard that we're capable. It's only a matter of time until we get to that point.
DRsaints 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 166

09-30-2010, 07:54 PM	#8
DRsaints 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 166	Originally Posted by Euphoria You have to keep in mind we are DEFENDING SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS. Teams are also giving us there A game. Yes, this is very true as well. Look at how the 49ers played us close compared to sucking something terrible against bad teams.
DRsaints 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 166

10-01-2010, 03:45 AM	#9
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Yeah, I tend to agree with most of you. It was a good call to kick the FG. Just thought it warranted bringing up that our play calling might have been a little safe in the last 3 games. Hadn't heard that brought up as a possibility before. I still find it kind of funny that even with 3 OT's we still pretty much won that game, if not for a fluke FG miss. But has anyone noticed that our secondary seems to be playing below their ability? Love sharpers tweet: "I'm mad I'm out of this game. You know I like those rookie quarterbacks." - Darren Sharper, over the drive charts of the Saints from 2009 and 2010 so far and counted red zone plays in the fourth quarter and overtime where the Saints were either down, tied, or ahead by one score. There were 61 scrimmage plays ( discounted field goals [obviously] and the entire week 17 rest-your-starters game) in those situations, and they resulted in 16 scores, 4 failed scores (3 missed field goals and an unsuccessful fake) and zero turnovers. Here are the games looked at: Code: Week Plays Scores TO NO POINTS 4 3 1 7 10 3 8 5 1 9 4 1 13 7 2 14 8 1 1 15 5 2 16 0 1 NFCCG 3 1 SB 4 1 1 3 1 2 8 2 3 1 1 1 Tot 61 16 0 4 Now obviously this is a small sample size, comprising approximately 5% of all plays the Saints ran in the qualifying range of games. But there is nothing here to suggest that there is something dangerous about taking shots at the end zone in this situation. There does seem to be something dangerous about letting Garrett Hartley kick field goals, however.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 10-01-2010 at 05:23 AM..

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09-30-2010, 01:43 PM	#2
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	One calculated decision does not mean that we are plying it safe......Hartley missed. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Payton isn't playing it safe nor is GW. They are doing their best to mix things up so that we don't become predictable on film. We are seeing lots of new looks and personnel packages. Payton may out think himself occasionally but he's also trying to stay one step ahead of the other coaches.

09-30-2010, 05:35 PM	#4
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	It was the right call. We had approximately a 5% chance of losing and the dice rolled against us. It failed. End of story. We are the champs. We will see everyone's A+ effort against us and a game against us will always be someone else's season Super Bowl. There will be no easy wins and the players need to be hungrier. This loss and some sloppy turnovers will end up doing us some good by allowing weaknesses to be addressed and for a reality slap to the players. We will not always find a way to win when the chips are done. Let's not leave it to chance and finish it before the 60 mins expire.

09-30-2010, 06:16 PM	#5
jlouhill 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Denton, Tx. Posts: 692	I think it was the right call. The odds were overwhelmingly in our favor. It just didn't work out. One of those things. Had we played our game and not had those turnovers it never would have gone to OT to begin with. I think this will be a reality check for the players. I'm looking for a statement game this Sunday against Carolina. I think we need to come out hard and fast with the pedal to the metal and not let up until the whistle blows to end the game. I'm not an advocate for running up the score but if there's a time to let the rest of the league know that we are still here and we mean business it's now. JMO

09-30-2010, 07:53 PM	#7
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	You have to keep in mind we are DEFENDING SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS. Teams are also giving us there A game.

10-01-2010, 07:54 AM	#10
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Has Jim Mora kidnapped Sean Payton and is roaming the sidelines chewing Juicy Fruit gum?!?