How many more games would we have won if....

progress · 11-25-2003, 10:43 AM

If Im the quaterback, and an offensive lineman does it once, I am going to make sure that that lineman knows the snap count for the rest of the game no matter what it takes to get through to him.
And in order to sound like Leon, I would have to start blaming Deuce. Had Deuce just broke two more 80 yard runs we would have won the game.
The QB is responsible for the offense period, he is responsible for making sure everyone is in position, that they know the play, and that they know the snap count.

[Edited on 25/11/2003 by progress]

BillyC · 11-25-2003, 10:50 AM

Progress -- If that\'s what you believe, then stick with it. What about when receiver drops a ball. Is that Brooks\' fault too? Does he need to make sure he tells him to concentrate better on the next play? I prefer to place blame where it goes, and hold each player responsible for their own mistakes.

Basically what you are saying is when everything goes right on offense then Brooks get\'s all the credit and when things go wrong Brooks\' get\'s all the blame. Where\'s the logic in that? Seriously !!

progress · 11-25-2003, 10:58 AM

You are taking things to far, its obsurd to believe that I am saying that its Brooks fault if Deuce or Horn fumble a football. What I am saying is the truth. The play and the formation come from the sideline to the QB. The QB is therefore responsible for making sure everyone on offense knows the play, formation, and snap count. It is then the QB\'s responsibility to handoff the football, or throw it where it needs to be thrown. Not behind, in front of, or over the head of players as Brooks does on a consistent basis. Brooks has our recievers scared to catch a football, because they know they are going to get laid out due to Brooks\'s consistent inaccuracy. I have seen very few passes that recievers have caught on the run, and catching the ball on the run is what makes the West Coast Offense (which is what McCarthy is supposed to be running) work.
Everything I just said is fact and not opinion. Donte refuses to play because he\'s not 100 %? Donte is scared to get hit and that is a direct result of Brooks\'s inaccuracy. (The last statement is opinion)

[Edited on 25/11/2003 by progress]

WhoDat · 11-25-2003, 02:41 PM

I assume Billy is starting this thread just to pick a fight, but I\'ll wade in anyway. The answer is... ?????????

Too many variables to determine any answer. HOWEVER, I will say this. When the Saints were scoring 30 points a game the argument from Billy and Saintfan was - what more do you want the man to do? What, would another QB make them score 40?

That was their argument then when people like me said that Brooks made too many bad decisions and stupid mistakes. When we said that he was inefficient and couldn\'t read defenses, etc.

Now, I will fully admit that Brooks has silenced me as a critic in a number of those fields this season. His grasp of the offense seems better, as does his poise in the pocket. He is more efficient, and seems to be able to read the D better.

However, while he makes fewer dumb throws and boneheaded plays in games now, the ones he does make are far more glaring b/c this team is only scoring 17, 20, 24 points a game. Now, the manage the game QB argument starts to hold water. I\'m not against Brooks right now, nor am I suggesting a change. However, a QB that didn\'t lead the league in fumbles might help keep us in games by not stopping scoring drives with fumbles on the 1 yard line or not giving points away by throwing an interception on your own ten yard line.

Point is, Brooks isn\'t the only reason why Atlanta almost stole a game from us just over a week ago, nor is he the only reason we lost to Philly. However, the 31 points those two teams have combined for off of Saints turnovers (4 out of 5 were Brooks\' turnovers), and the at least 7 points that he took off the Saints board with those turnovers DO have a LOT to do with why we\'re losing games. Offensive linemen can kill our drives by jumping off sides twice in a row and turning our 3rd and 2 at an opponent\'s 40 into 3rd and 12 from the 50; recievers can stop drives by dropping sure first down balls; but only Brooks in the last few games has managed to give away 35 combined points. That is inexcusable.

BillyC · 11-25-2003, 02:53 PM

I assume Billy is starting this thread just to pick a fight, but I\'ll wade in anyway.

Nope that\'s not it. Judging by the number of \"Brooks Sucks\" posts on this board I just figured a lot of folks think we would be undefeated if not for Brooks.

but only Brooks in the last few games has managed to give away 35 combined points

Like the fumble in our own endzone is an automatic 7-points for the other team and all the other turnovers for that matter. Yeah he turned the ball over, but he only has 8-interceptions this year. Anytime a defense can\'t stop a team from scoring when their offense turns the ball over, it magnifies everything. Why is it so hard to place blame on Brooks when it is called for and realize that other QB\'s do the same sh!t, only they get bailed out by a better defense?

Man, there are so many fans who want to pin EVERYTHING on Brooks. Maybe it\'s just a lack of football knowledge or maybe it\'s just their hate for the guy. And don\'t be telling me I won\'t fault Brooks, because I agree with the majority that Brooks is making some STUPID mistakes...

WhoDat · 11-25-2003, 03:31 PM

Billy, the Falcons and Eagles both scored 14 points off of Brooks\' turnovers. You\'re right, our defense isn\'t good. But it\'s not the defense that is magnifying Brooks\' play, it\'s him. Like I said, last year, when they scored 30 a game, a slip up here that takes points off the board, or a slip up there that gives the opponent points might be overlooked and forgiven. It was last year. You weren\'t around yet, but more people sided with Brooks than not this time last season.

However, when your team struggles to score 20 and you give the ball away by yourself twice and those two turnovers amount to 14 points for your opponent and at least 7 less for you, yeah, you\'re a problem.

But go ahead and blame the line. How many turnovers do they have this season? In fact, do this: add up the fumbles LOST by Deuce, and all of the receivers combines this season and compare it to the 15 turnovers Brooks has on his own and tell me how Brooks compares to the entire rest of the team combined. I bet you\'ll see that AB has hurt this team by his own hand about as much as the entire rest of the team this season. That\'s OK though, I\'m sure you\'ll tell me about how those turnovers are really the line\'s fault, or the defense\'s, or special team\'s, coaches, WR\'s, ANYone but Brooks.

D_it_up · 11-25-2003, 03:53 PM

Aaron Brooks is the best QB to ever put on a New Orleans Saints jersey. *cracks open that newly delivered lifetime supply of tang and sips it*. He doesn\'t make mental mistakes *takes a longer drink*. He is going to take the Saints to the Super Bowl this year. *Does a tang-stand and passes out*

BillyC · 11-25-2003, 03:58 PM

WhoDat -- I\'ve already said SEVERAL times that I\'m not happy with Brooks play. Your attempt to say that I won\'t blame Brooks is foolish and a lie. Do you have a problem tellin\' the truth because I can pull up the posts if you like, but I know you have already read \'em, because I just posted them yesterday and today.

I think you are so busy trying to convince yourself that you have this whole thing figured out that you just start making things up. Can you please show me where I REFUSE to blame Brooks. If not, then quit putting words in my mouth...

What you fail to realize is that YES Brooks has made mistakes but there are 10-more guys that are surely hepling this offense to self distruct and I\'m going to place blame where it goes and I\'m not going to place one more ounce of blame on Brooks when it doesn\'t belong. That\'s something you can\'t do, as hard as you might try. I know you believe you are fair, but you are NOT!! Your agenda is still there.

The problem with you WhoDat is that there are so many posts on here where members are placing EVERYTHING on Brooks but you fail to call \'em on it 90% of the time, but when someone like me points to the BIG picture you feel compelled to say I\'m shifting the blame, when I aslo state in the same post that Brooks screwed up. Yeah, you don\'t have an agenda!!!

WhoDat · 11-25-2003, 10:58 PM

You\'re right Billy. What was I thinking? The 90% (or more) of this board that is unhappy with Brooks\' play and doesn\'t believe that he is worth the money is all wrong. In fact, you and the one other guy on this board, who defend Brooks against all this unjust \"bashing\" are noble souls - defender of the Brooks name. Good job, and thank you for educating all of us that see things relatively the same way. Obviously it ALL of US that see things wrong - but you, being the visionary that you are, and incredible judge of NFL talent, have brought light to an otherwise dark place. Maybe we should make a shrine to you somewhere. We can list all of the predictions that you\'ve made that have turned out right... no, none of those... and we can list the incredible insights you\'ve made into the games... nope, your only comments after most games are about how great Brooks played, or why it wasn\'t his fault... you know, maybe the shrine wasn\'t such a good idea. I\'ll just keep drinking this Tang and maybe one day I\'ll get dumb enough to see things your way. Cheers!

progress · 11-26-2003, 02:14 PM

WhoDat bees tellin it like it bees.

11-25-2003, 10:43 AM	#11
progress 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 114	How many more games would we have won if.... If Im the quaterback, and an offensive lineman does it once, I am going to make sure that that lineman knows the snap count for the rest of the game no matter what it takes to get through to him. And in order to sound like Leon, I would have to start blaming Deuce. Had Deuce just broke two more 80 yard runs we would have won the game. The QB is responsible for the offense period, he is responsible for making sure everyone is in position, that they know the play, and that they know the snap count. [Edited on 25/11/2003 by progress]
progress 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 114

11-25-2003, 10:50 AM	#12
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	How many more games would we have won if.... Progress -- If that\'s what you believe, then stick with it. What about when receiver drops a ball. Is that Brooks\' fault too? Does he need to make sure he tells him to concentrate better on the next play? I prefer to place blame where it goes, and hold each player responsible for their own mistakes. Basically what you are saying is when everything goes right on offense then Brooks get\'s all the credit and when things go wrong Brooks\' get\'s all the blame. Where\'s the logic in that? Seriously !!
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

11-25-2003, 10:58 AM	#13
progress 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 114	How many more games would we have won if.... You are taking things to far, its obsurd to believe that I am saying that its Brooks fault if Deuce or Horn fumble a football. What I am saying is the truth. The play and the formation come from the sideline to the QB. The QB is therefore responsible for making sure everyone on offense knows the play, formation, and snap count. It is then the QB\'s responsibility to handoff the football, or throw it where it needs to be thrown. Not behind, in front of, or over the head of players as Brooks does on a consistent basis. Brooks has our recievers scared to catch a football, because they know they are going to get laid out due to Brooks\'s consistent inaccuracy. I have seen very few passes that recievers have caught on the run, and catching the ball on the run is what makes the West Coast Offense (which is what McCarthy is supposed to be running) work. Everything I just said is fact and not opinion. Donte refuses to play because he\'s not 100 %? Donte is scared to get hit and that is a direct result of Brooks\'s inaccuracy. (The last statement is opinion) [Edited on 25/11/2003 by progress]
progress 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 114

11-25-2003, 02:41 PM	#14
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	How many more games would we have won if.... I assume Billy is starting this thread just to pick a fight, but I\'ll wade in anyway. The answer is... ????????? Too many variables to determine any answer. HOWEVER, I will say this. When the Saints were scoring 30 points a game the argument from Billy and Saintfan was - what more do you want the man to do? What, would another QB make them score 40? That was their argument then when people like me said that Brooks made too many bad decisions and stupid mistakes. When we said that he was inefficient and couldn\'t read defenses, etc. Now, I will fully admit that Brooks has silenced me as a critic in a number of those fields this season. His grasp of the offense seems better, as does his poise in the pocket. He is more efficient, and seems to be able to read the D better. However, while he makes fewer dumb throws and boneheaded plays in games now, the ones he does make are far more glaring b/c this team is only scoring 17, 20, 24 points a game. Now, the manage the game QB argument starts to hold water. I\'m not against Brooks right now, nor am I suggesting a change. However, a QB that didn\'t lead the league in fumbles might help keep us in games by not stopping scoring drives with fumbles on the 1 yard line or not giving points away by throwing an interception on your own ten yard line. Point is, Brooks isn\'t the only reason why Atlanta almost stole a game from us just over a week ago, nor is he the only reason we lost to Philly. However, the 31 points those two teams have combined for off of Saints turnovers (4 out of 5 were Brooks\' turnovers), and the at least 7 points that he took off the Saints board with those turnovers DO have a LOT to do with why we\'re losing games. Offensive linemen can kill our drives by jumping off sides twice in a row and turning our 3rd and 2 at an opponent\'s 40 into 3rd and 12 from the 50; recievers can stop drives by dropping sure first down balls; but only Brooks in the last few games has managed to give away 35 combined points. That is inexcusable.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-25-2003, 02:53 PM	#15
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	How many more games would we have won if.... I assume Billy is starting this thread just to pick a fight, but I\'ll wade in anyway. Nope that\'s not it. Judging by the number of \"Brooks Sucks\" posts on this board I just figured a lot of folks think we would be undefeated if not for Brooks. but only Brooks in the last few games has managed to give away 35 combined points Like the fumble in our own endzone is an automatic 7-points for the other team and all the other turnovers for that matter. Yeah he turned the ball over, but he only has 8-interceptions this year. Anytime a defense can\'t stop a team from scoring when their offense turns the ball over, it magnifies everything. Why is it so hard to place blame on Brooks when it is called for and realize that other QB\'s do the same sh!t, only they get bailed out by a better defense? Man, there are so many fans who want to pin EVERYTHING on Brooks. Maybe it\'s just a lack of football knowledge or maybe it\'s just their hate for the guy. And don\'t be telling me I won\'t fault Brooks, because I agree with the majority that Brooks is making some STUPID mistakes...
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

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11-25-2003, 03:31 PM	#16
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	How many more games would we have won if.... Billy, the Falcons and Eagles both scored 14 points off of Brooks\' turnovers. You\'re right, our defense isn\'t good. But it\'s not the defense that is magnifying Brooks\' play, it\'s him. Like I said, last year, when they scored 30 a game, a slip up here that takes points off the board, or a slip up there that gives the opponent points might be overlooked and forgiven. It was last year. You weren\'t around yet, but more people sided with Brooks than not this time last season. However, when your team struggles to score 20 and you give the ball away by yourself twice and those two turnovers amount to 14 points for your opponent and at least 7 less for you, yeah, you\'re a problem. But go ahead and blame the line. How many turnovers do they have this season? In fact, do this: add up the fumbles LOST by Deuce, and all of the receivers combines this season and compare it to the 15 turnovers Brooks has on his own and tell me how Brooks compares to the entire rest of the team combined. I bet you\'ll see that AB has hurt this team by his own hand about as much as the entire rest of the team this season. That\'s OK though, I\'m sure you\'ll tell me about how those turnovers are really the line\'s fault, or the defense\'s, or special team\'s, coaches, WR\'s, ANYone but Brooks.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-25-2003, 03:53 PM	#17
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	How many more games would we have won if.... Aaron Brooks is the best QB to ever put on a New Orleans Saints jersey. cracks open that newly delivered lifetime supply of tang and sips it. He doesn\'t make mental mistakes takes a longer drink. He is going to take the Saints to the Super Bowl this year. Does a tang-stand and passes out

11-25-2003, 03:58 PM	#18
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	How many more games would we have won if.... WhoDat -- I\'ve already said SEVERAL times that I\'m not happy with Brooks play. Your attempt to say that I won\'t blame Brooks is foolish and a lie. Do you have a problem tellin\' the truth because I can pull up the posts if you like, but I know you have already read \'em, because I just posted them yesterday and today. I think you are so busy trying to convince yourself that you have this whole thing figured out that you just start making things up. Can you please show me where I REFUSE to blame Brooks. If not, then quit putting words in my mouth... What you fail to realize is that YES Brooks has made mistakes but there are 10-more guys that are surely hepling this offense to self distruct and I\'m going to place blame where it goes and I\'m not going to place one more ounce of blame on Brooks when it doesn\'t belong. That\'s something you can\'t do, as hard as you might try. I know you believe you are fair, but you are NOT!! Your agenda is still there. The problem with you WhoDat is that there are so many posts on here where members are placing EVERYTHING on Brooks but you fail to call \'em on it 90% of the time, but when someone like me points to the BIG picture you feel compelled to say I\'m shifting the blame, when I aslo state in the same post that Brooks screwed up. Yeah, you don\'t have an agenda!!!
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

11-25-2003, 10:58 PM	#19
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	How many more games would we have won if.... You\'re right Billy. What was I thinking? The 90% (or more) of this board that is unhappy with Brooks\' play and doesn\'t believe that he is worth the money is all wrong. In fact, you and the one other guy on this board, who defend Brooks against all this unjust \"bashing\" are noble souls - defender of the Brooks name. Good job, and thank you for educating all of us that see things relatively the same way. Obviously it ALL of US that see things wrong - but you, being the visionary that you are, and incredible judge of NFL talent, have brought light to an otherwise dark place. Maybe we should make a shrine to you somewhere. We can list all of the predictions that you\'ve made that have turned out right... no, none of those... and we can list the incredible insights you\'ve made into the games... nope, your only comments after most games are about how great Brooks played, or why it wasn\'t his fault... you know, maybe the shrine wasn\'t such a good idea. I\'ll just keep drinking this Tang and maybe one day I\'ll get dumb enough to see things your way. Cheers!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-26-2003, 02:14 PM	#20
progress 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 114	How many more games would we have won if.... WhoDat bees tellin it like it bees.
progress 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 114