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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Everyone needs to get rid of the "The owners are bosses and the players workers, just like my job" mindset, simply because it is wrong. They are MUCH closer to entertainers than they are 9 to 5ers. Tom Hanks commands ...
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#1 |
Logic Troll
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Southern Louisiana
Posts: 565
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Everyone needs to get rid of the "The owners are bosses and the players workers, just like my job" mindset, simply because it is wrong. They are MUCH closer to entertainers than they are 9 to 5ers.
Tom Hanks commands a huge salary for movies. The studio doesn't say "You will take what I offer or I'll cast someone else." because Tom Hanks draws a crowd. Without even hearing what the plot is, who the director is, who the co-stars are, or even the genre of movie, what would you choose... The new Tom Hanks movie, or the new Johnny Knoxville movie? Even if you choose Johnny Knoxville, you know damn well you are in the minority. Tom Hanks will bring in more people on his name alone, a lot more. So much more that he is worth the 10 - 20 million dollar difference in their salaries. This works the same for football. Again, if you feel differently, that is fine, but you still have to recognize you are in the minority. When we picked up Drew Brees, season ticked sales soared. A few weeks later when we drafted Reggie, *BAM*, season tickets were sold out for the first time in a LOOONG time, and there is STILL a waiting list for them. Jay Cutler and Thomas Jones would not have caused that reaction because they don't have the star power. Not athletic skills and talents, because I would take Thomas Jones over Reggie every day of the week, but Jones would not have sold us out. I wait tables, I have done it for ages, and I am DAMN good at it. Even so, I can't increase or decrease a restaurants business by 20% - 50% all by myself. I can make it run smoother, or more roughly... I can keep guests coming back, or keep them from coming back, but not in that quantity. When I get a job at a new restaurant the whole city is NOT a twitter about it. I have mad skills, but no star power. Thus I can't say open your books and show me why you can't pay me more than $2.13 an hour. Hell, just take Reggie for example. Has Reggie earned his salary on the field? I'm going to go with "no" on that. I don't think he has quite played up to his salary. But that star power of his... That sold a lot of tickets. It sold a lot of jerseys, tee shirts, and hats. I'm sure Benson made a nice net profit off of that, even with Reggie's big salary. Athletes equate to Actors/Entertainers, hourly employees do not equate to athletes. If you don't think that is "fair", well, tough **** comrade. Hell, even when the founding fathers said "All men are created equal." they said with with a wink and a nudge. I would even be willing to stipulate that all men are created equal, but that sure doesn't mean they stay that way. |
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams.
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#2 |
Site Donor 2018
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lafayette
Posts: 7,753
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Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP
nice way of putting it, good read
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#3 |
1000 Posts +
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hockley, Tx
Posts: 1,515
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Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP
I dissagree. I do not equate the two simply based on JOB!![]()
Football is a sport no matter how much you'd like to put it in an Oscar catagory. ESPN turned it into a TMZ showcase. When Brees was signed we finally had a winning QB to lead a TEAM! That's what sold tickets. RB was the most spectacular Athlete coming out of college. That is what sold tickets. And YES the Studios still DECIDE who to offer the part to. Same with the NFL owners. The "Actor" can take whats offered or refuse. Actors have been known to do that. You never hear of Actors turining down a part or Studios passing on an Actor because salary demand was too high? I don't watch football for the Drama, I watch for the competition and love of the sport. I watch a movie for entertainment and when it's over I don't go out and buy a Team Edward T-shirt. Big Difference. Actors,Waiters,Nurses,Office managers,etc... ARE all teh same. They all work for someone else. Difference is how they get paid. Hourly or Salary. I think your view on this is very skewed. And if you don't like that then tough ***** commie. |
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#4 |
Logic Troll
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Southern Louisiana
Posts: 565
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Originally Posted by lynwood
Yes. Football is a sport. I didn't say it wasn't a sport. This has nothing to do with the discussion.![]()
Originally Posted by lynwood
Yes, that is exactly what I said. Reggie was the most spectaular athlete coming out of college. He had proven nothing on an NFL football field at that point, and it was his Star Power that sold tickets in a way that a greater talent with lesser Star Power would not have.![]()
Originally Posted by lynwood
Um, again you are arguing something else entirely. I did not say the studios don't DECIDE who to offer a part to. If studio has a very small budget for a movie, they will not bother offering a part to Tom Hanks since his salary would eat up most of the budget. When Waffle House needs a new grill cook, they don't offer the job to Gordon Ramsay. ![]()
And, really, are you SERIOUSLY insinuating that no actor has ever refused a part because they weren't offered enough money? That is so silly it isn't even worth retorting.
Originally Posted by lynwood
As I said (Did you really read what I posted?) that even if you have an alternative choice or taste you have to recognize everyone does NOT have those same tastes. The very existence of those Team Edward shirts that you mentioned kind of proves my point. ![]()
In any case, I didn't suggest that anyone watched football for the "Drama". As you said, you watch for the competition. Watching the Arena/CFL players isn't as fun as watching the NFL players because their skill levels are not as high and the competition is not as intense. This is part of that Star Power that gives NFL athletes the ability to bargain differently than an hourly employee. Because they cannot be replaced with substitutes that are of equal quality.
Originally Posted by lynwood
*sigh* Okay. The act of working for someone else does not make Actors, Waiters, Nurses, and Office Managers the same. ![]()
Nurses make more than waiters. Why? Because they have years of specialized training that allows them to command a better salary. And I do mean "command". They won't work for minimum wage, so the people that employ them pay them more. Hospitals don't pay them a fair wage because a fair wage is fair. Hospitals don't care about fairness, they care about profit. If they could pay all the nurses minimum wage, they would. But, they CANNOT. Not because of any legal binding, because once you are over the minimum wage all bets are off. They CANNOT because the nurses will not work for less and if the hospital does not have nurses all the patents will die. This is not profitable. Waiting tables does not require years of specialized education. If a waiter refuses to work for $2.13 an hour, they hire someone else off the street. Problem solved. This is what is called a difference. A difference makes two things not the same.
Originally Posted by lynwood
My view is not at all skewed. It looks that way to you, because it is your view that is actually skewed. I am laying down simple and obvious truths and facts. I am not putting any personal bias on any of my statements.![]()
And finally, do you know what a "commie" is, and what communists believe? Communists spout how all people are completely equal and that no one person has more value than any other person. The type of statement that a communist would give would be something like "Actors, Waiters, Nurses, Office managers, etc... ARE all the same." You see, the comments I have been making are very capitalistic and the antithesis of communism. The very fact that you are countering my anti-communist arguments with communist arguments while calling me a "commie" is really quite funny. Not "haha" funny, but "mock your intellectual capacity while laughing at you funny". Being a communist is about a system of ideology. Using the word "Comrade" (especially sarcastically) doesn't make someone a communist, just like saying "P'tahk" doesn't make you a Klingon, or saying "Shazam" doesn't make you Captain Marvel. |
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams.
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#5 |
100th Post
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 165
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Originally Posted by lynwood
This... This is all wrong. Memnoch basically nailed my point of view, in so many words. Football should not be treated in the same facet as a common mans job. Most generally, and at the VERY LEAST with high caliber players, when a player has a a spot on a professional sports team it means that they are exceptionally talented with athletic abilities. In a manner of speaking, (someone will undoubtedly misinterpret this one) a person can't just go and say "Hey, I want to toss the rock for St. Louis" and send in a resume looking for a job. As is easily apparent with the combine showings, the senior bowl, draft day, and generally the sports tabloids as a whole, owners and general managers actively SEEK OUT the hottest talent to add to their team. They don't always know exactly what to expect from that person come game time, but if that person reached 100 million google hits for their 40 time, you better bet the team reps are looking at them.![]()
The NFL as a business is very much a partnership. The owners (and Roger Goodell) can continue to deceive themselves into thinking that they have everyone by the balls (no pun intended) while they hide behind their TV contracts and try to scrape even more off the top, but that serves them very little good in the long run. How long will the TV companies offer contracts to a league that can't, or more importantly, won't field players? It's awfully funny, and somewhat ironic to me that of the many possible analogies Memnoch could have used, he chose the film industry one. Remember the writers strike not so long ago. You can damn well bet that the studios and their investing partners didn't want for that to happen, nor I would say did the actors. Without the writers and actors what good are the studios? All that they would have become is a big pile of money quickly being spent. The owners are in no different position in that they cannot fill those seats and play the games. The main difference is that the owners have Goodell to change their diapers for them. In the end, the main difference between how most people are choosing to view this, albeit ignorantly, can be easily broken down to sound like this: Say you have a Burger King chain, complete with an owner, a few managers, and several handfuls of employees. This Burger King operates much like any other company in that the owner hires the managers, the managers hire the employees, and the employees do the grunt work. It is very true that the owners and managers can just fire people at will and they will have no trouble replacing them. Let's say on the other hand though, that suddenly the world runs out of beef. Where do you think that leaves the Burger King. They have plenty of people willing to do the work, but no product to sell. They could try selling nothing but chicken, but I highly doubt that would sustain the brand for very long. This is really no different than the way the NFL works. Sure, there are plenty of people out there willing to suit up and take some snaps, but that doesn't mean that anyone will care to watch them, at least not for very long. The players should not be compared to a common worker in a 9-5 job. What they are IS the product. We eat up everything these high profile characters lay out. Without the players the owners would not have a leg to stand on (in terms of what they make from football). They would have no jerseys, no marketable figures, no bobbleheads, no Madden 2011 with Drew Brees on the front, nothing. At the end of the day it angers me, but also amuses me, that the only thing stopping the owners from continuing to squeeze every dime they can from their fanbase, and the players from playing, is a silly unwillingness from the owners to say 'Hey, players, we need more money man, we're not making what we want to, that cool?' and the players being all 'Np bro, just show us the books so that we know you aren't lying to us' and then the owners coming back with 'Efffffffff, can't you just trust us? We promise we aren't just trying to take a bigger cut of the pie.' Which as we all know lead to the players saying 'Roflmao, that's cute. Show us the books, go back to the old contract that we ALREADY agreed on, or just gtfo and go try to scam someone else'. I know, I know, tl;dr. |
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