BringTheWood

S.E.M.A.N.T.I.C.S.

Regardless of how you choose to interpret the specifics of the contract, which I'm fairly sure you don't know 100% and haven't read yourself, the fact remains that the owners caused the contract to CEASE. In doing so they started this whole mess. Add in the fact that there was an obvious act of collusion that also included the commissioner of the NFL, and the owners have lost just about any credibility that they may have had; At least with anyone who isn't a complete moron, or Ronald Reagan.

If you absolutely must have it viewed from your particular wording, however, then I would argue that the players are simply exercising a mutually agreed upon right renegotiate also.

The owners opened this can of worms, just accept it. I applaud the players for not backing down, and while it pisses me off to no end that we may not see football for a good while, I refuse to misguide my rage towards them for exercising their right to be taken seriously. Just open the books owners, and this all goes away.


That letter is admittedly bad though. It is overly obvious that it's either an act of lunacy, or a half-hearted attempt at securing pity.

I loved Scott as a player when he was a Saint, and regardless of the recent social potholes, he remains to me a classy and sincere guy. No one is perfect, and he's just riding the wave. His wife however... He should pull a Peoples Republic of China and censor her.

skymike

Thats what Baseball thought before it went on strike.

"Facts" & "reality" are apparently fuzzier than I've been lead to believe.
Let me help here:

I dont recall everyone being 100% sold on Drew Brees. Not saying anyone disliked him, but only 2 teams were interested, and nobody was sure if he'd be the same after the shoulder. I didnt hear everyone screaming "Brees" all the way to the Dome. My memory keeps hearing, "Reggie- Reggie- Reggie."

That said, New Orleans was a global news story, and fans were fighting to save the Saints. I strongly question that the season sell-out was all about two superstars. Saving the Saints, supporting the City, and joining the Dome reopening was foremost in conversations.

Not saying Reggie didnt help. (I remain a Reggie apologist.) But its presumptuous to assert that he and Drew were the reason people came. Your "hard cold numbers" lack a survey there, Mr. Gallup.

By that logic, we should have sold out for Rickey Williams & Mike Ditka. We've had superstars. (Earl Campbell, Ken Stabler) We've had Heismans (George Rogers, Danny Weurffel.) -- How'd that work for us?

I could sit here and claim we all came to see Green Day, and call it a "hard cold fact."

And actually the Hebert years were damn exciting-- the best we'd had to that date. There were these guys called the Dome Patrol. And the Steelers won, & Three Rivers was an exciting place to be when (K)ordell played.

But you know what? When they went on strike in '87, we still watched the Scabs play. Some of the Scabs made the teams after the strike ended. The point is, we still watched, and the NFL went on.

I wont go as far as Seinfeld, and say we're rooting for laundry, in fact, I've stated in an earlier post how important the players are, and how much I love them. But "fact" is, we are Saints fans, and we went when Jim Everett played. We went when Dave Wilson played.

But dont try to sell your uncited opinions as "facts" and "reality." I work in news media. "Indisputable" my a$$.

Last time I heard "indisputable," somebody was trying to tell me there wouldnt be any more snow.

ALLSAINTS66

>>Thats what Baseball thought before it went on strike. <<

And the NHL as well. They STILL haven't recovered from the
early 90s Player's Strike, the following mid-90s lockout, and
then the 04-05 lockout. After all that chicanery, very few teams
are in the black. 'Doesn't seem like it did ANYBODY any good,
and most certainly not THE FANS.

ALLSAINTS66

>>But that contract said that if either of you were unhappy with the deal, you have the option to re-negotiate another contract at that point.
The owners did NOT back out of a contract, they simply exercised a mutally agreed upon right to renegotiate.<<

Yeah you know, we tried that here in the South back in the 1800s, and
look how THAT worked out... *smirk*

skymike

Your avatar is AWESOME, '66!

SapperSaint

66 made a very good point with his reference to baseball.

Baseball killed it's self with the strike. The MLB started the recovery during the Sosa - McGwire HR battle. (which was later destroyed by the press and government) with the steriod crap.

I remember, not too long ago, you could turn on just about any channel and find a baseball game. You can't do that now. Baseball is still having the effects of the stopage.

Football. Has fully taken over the tv waves. For goodness sake, they even play re-runs for pro and college games all year long. I don't think the players, owners and NFL Brass really understand what harm can happen to the NFL as a whole if this lockout continues.

Most of sports fans are lower - middle blue collar people. Who work very hard for the money they make and are so devote to the teams they support that they will adjust their income just to buy tickets to games.

Once you make those people feel alienated, or feel betrayed.....your buisness is screwed.

"We are number one. All others are number two, or lower."
-The Sphinx
http://blackandgold.com/groups/28-ou...tsman-s-corner

ALLSAINTS66

Faddarekkid, I think the original baseball quote was Danno's.

And fadda resta darekkid, I'm a chick. Not that it really matters
in this context, but, just in the interest of full disclosure, I guess.

As for blue collar fans, it feels like most of the major sports leagues
have totally forgotten this. They cater to high dollar fans and corporations,
even tearing out season ticket holder seats to make room for corporate
ballrooms to watch games from. Glassed enclosures, away from all
of us rowdy, dirty, raucous, drunk and disorderly fans who made
all those gottdang seats POSSIBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

While I will *always* love the New Orleans Saints, I do feel like
the leagues have let their money go to their heads, and are shooting
themselves in the feet with some of this stuff. NASCAR is another
example. They keep trying to make the sport more "mainstream
friendly" and they keep wondering why seats at tracks like Bristol
last weekend get emptier, and emptier. They say, "it's the economy".
Naw, it's not the economy. It's that they keep jacking ticket prices
up, while changing rules and watering down the sport more an'
more. There's only so much fertilizer people will put up with.
And with ALL these leagues, there's usually a smaller, cheaper,
passionate and wildly entertaining local league we all CAN and
WILL go to instead of their overpriced pablum.

Except for the Saints. There is not, was not and never will be
a replacement for them. Which is why I really really REALLY
hope the NFL and the players will find a happy medium and
GET ON WITH IT ALREADY.

ALLSAINTS66

Thank ye. I got it as a magnet from ebaY. You can get one
too, ratcheer:

h**p://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ORLEANS-SAINTS-JAX-BEER-FRIDGE-MAGNET-/120702943237?pt=US_Football_Fan_Shop&hash=item1c1a74c005

Replace the *s with t's, just so we don't show up in
searches or nothin' like that.

No, I ain't that person, and I make no profits from tellin' y'all
about this here cool magnet. Enjoy.

SAINT_MICHAEL

Just like you saying it is a bad comparison doesn't make it so. It is apt. When they want to play the role of common man, then they have to play by the rules of the common man. If they don't want to, then say something like "Hey we are all wealthy individuals here who are dealing with money you normal fans can't understand. We'll get this worked out, but until then just sit tight"? But don't try to play it both ways. Why you seem to think that just because they make more money they get to create a new set of rules is beyond me.

So, you think that because of the “indisputable fact” the Saints had a ticket spike when Drew and Reggie joined the team it proves your point about the players being indispensable? That’s a jump! Back in 1987 the players thought they were indispensable too. After watching replacement players fill their shoes for three games, they quickly realized that people would indeed watch without them and their big work stopping strike lasted all of 24 days. There is your indisputable fact. And let’s think about it…is football less or more popular than it was in 1987? You can say what you want to about MLB and NHL strikes hurting the sports, but they were not as strong as football is now. When Sundays and Monday nights come rolling around in October, people will watch football if it’s on no matter if it’s drew Tom Brady QBing or not.




The rough moments may not be as cherished as the good ones, but they were and are still watched and that is the point. You can’t enjoy the good times without having the bad times to compare them to.

SAINT_MICHAEL

I understand that the history of America shows that organized labor had its purpose and place. But as response to a seemingly common idea running through this thread, I say it is a mistake to relate modern day unions exclusively with hard, blue collar workers and vice versa. It’s the ethic of the person that makes a hard worker, not a union. I've got family and friends in both teacher and refinery worker positions (both heavily unionized) and to say that union workers are synonymous with hard workers is a crock. In fact, the opposite is often true because non-union contract workers are frequently self employed and more motivated because they don't have the safety net of a high profile, politically motivated, due funded, lawyer advised and represented union to fall back on.

I know for a fact that unions dissuade teachers in at least one local district here in the bay area from having extra open office hours before or after school or from spending weekend unpaid time on their own with students. Their union has specifically told them that those hours are not in their contract to provide and therefore not sanctioned by the union and should not be participated in. So, this blue collar, hard working teacher union basically tried to deny a teacher a weekend field trip to a local museum with her class even though it was on her time and dime.

I've been paid for many labor jobs and sweated through many 12-hour workdays to pay my way through college without joining a union. So don't act like the workingman claim is strictly for pro union members. I worked hard to get money for college, worked hard to get my degree in college, and I’ve worked hard once I got out of college to make a career. To me, the idea that a group of people can have a monopoly on a work skill and demand that anyone who is employed in that skill pay them money so that they can represent them is extortion and as Un American as denying someone freedom of speech or religion. Didn’t the Corleone family kinda get started out like that?