Which Reggie Bush scenario would you like to see happen?

Euphoria · 05-11-2011, 10:12 AM

STUPID GAY POlls!!!

You can make stats anything you want them to be.

Fact - He isn't a feature back and never was.
Fact - being drafted #2 overall and you're ranked 53rd in any category... sucks.

I don't care what his stats are for being drafted #2 he hasn't lived up to what he was suppose to be. RB's in the NFL looks they they are running seam routes but what it really is in reality are check downs - flair outs then sit right where the LB's were who by that time has either dropped back into coverage or blitzing. He does have speed to get open from LB's.

Danno · 05-11-2011, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by ClintSaints

Even being ranked 53rd isn't that bad. Did you realize that literally HUNDREDS of players do punt returns on a yearly basis? Being ranked 53rd out of 200 is good. Being ranked 23rd is even better. And you can't remove his one good year - that one good year is PART of his career and can't be dislodged no matter how hard you try. By the way, did you bother to list how many attempts he's had in each of those years? You are cherry-picking data to support your conclusions. 7.8 yards is a good career punt return average no matter how you slice it. I could turn right around and say, "Reggie Bush has had good punt returns, except for the year 2009. If you take 2009 out of the equation, he's averaged 9 yards per punt return." And anyway, in 2008 he did 20 returns, which is a good amount of returns to do an average. He only ranks 9th because there are some returners who ran only 1 or 2 punt returns and had a really good runback in the one or two times that they tried.

Nice try though.

53rd is terrible no matter which way you slice it. Did you read the stats?

And when you include eligible returners (which I did) he ranks near dead last as well.

Total Average includes attempts, so its apples to apples.

Even if you include EVERY SEASON, EVERY RETURN, his average would rank us 23rd in the NFL out of 32 teams.

Sorry, you can spin it all you want, that is NOT good by any standard.

Its amazing how people keep justifying his poor performances time and time again when the facts do not support it in any way shape or form. He has officially become Reggie Brooks.

Euphoria · 05-11-2011, 11:41 AM

LMAO. REGGIE BROOKS.

It is still happening after all this time and a SB victory. Posts always come back around to Brooks, LMAO.

I would even argue that a good punt returner is someone you don't have to hold your breath everytime you see him back to return a punt because you fear he is going to fumble it. No that isn't a good punt returner.

Don't get me wrong I think we need him and can very much use him as a 3rd down back and slot type WR. But not at 11 mil. And please lets home Patrick or someone else can return punts instead of Reggie.

Rugby Saint II · 05-11-2011, 02:19 PM

Reggie stays with a reduced salary and plays basically the same role since he came here. He is better with a one two punch. I have mixed feelings about him as a return man though.

ClintSaints · 05-11-2011, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

53rd is terrible no matter which way you slice it. Did you read the stats?

And when you include eligible returners (which I did) he ranks near dead last as well.

Total Average includes attempts, so its apples to apples.

Even if you include EVERY SEASON, EVERY RETURN, his average would rank us 23rd in the NFL out of 32 teams.

Sorry, you can spin it all you want, that is NOT good by any standard.

Its amazing how people keep justifying his poor performances time and time again when the facts do not support it in any way shape or form. He has officially become Reggie Brooks.

Why do you hate Reggie Bush so much? 7.8 yards per punt return is average it is not bad. Your original contention that he is a bad punt returner is simply wrong wrong wrong. What did Reggie Bush ever do to you? He had several incredible performances in the last season in which he was healthy 2009-2010 and he was absolute best in the playoffs and Super Bowl. This is not even in dispute. And then he had the misfortune of having a 250 pound idiot from the 49ers fall on top of him while he was on the ground which basically took him out of last season.

Btw, the average amount of punts that take place in an NFL game is around 5 or 6. That's approximately 2600 punts in a season of NFL football. About half of those actually get returned (there were 1262 punt returns last season). There are approximately 40 punt returners in the NFL who return punts on a regular enough basis to even talk about. Therefore, the rank of 23rd is not out of a pool of 32 NFL teams because some teams use more than one regular punt returner. The rank of 23rd is out of a pool of about 40 returners or possibly even more. That's perfectly average, not bad. Another point is that Reggie Bush's average of 7.8 would have put him in 20th position for the 2010 season (minimum 20 returns), which again is not bad at all.

And also, another category which must be considered is that Reggie Bush is on a very elite list of punt returners who have more than 3 punts returned for a touchdown. He has 4 during the regular season, which places him tied for 18th IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. That is out of thousands and thousands of punt returners. This once again defeats your contention that he is a bad punt returner. He is not a BAD punt returner. He is not a punt return specialist like Devin Hester. But to say that he is a bad punt returner is factually wrong.

Danno · 05-11-2011, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by ClintSaints

Why do you hate Reggie Bush so much? 7.8 yards per punt return is average it is not bad. Your original contention that he is a bad punt returner is simply wrong wrong wrong. What did Reggie Bush ever do to you? He had several incredible performances in the last season in which he was healthy 2009-2010 and he was absolute best in the playoffs and Super Bowl. This is not even in dispute. And then he had the misfortune of having a 250 pound idiot from the 49ers fall on top of him while he was on the ground which basically took him out of last season.

Btw, the average amount of punts that take place in an NFL game is around 5 or 6. That's approximately 2600 punts in a season of NFL football. About half of those actually get returned (there were 1262 punt returns last season). There are approximately 40 punt returners in the NFL who return punts on a regular enough basis to even talk about. Therefore, the rank of 23rd is not out of a pool of 32 NFL teams because some teams use more than one regular punt returner. The rank of 23rd is out of a pool of about 40 returners or possibly even more. That's perfectly average, not bad. Another point is that Reggie Bush's average of 7.8 would have put him in 20th position for the 2010 season (minimum 20 returns), which again is not bad at all.

And also, another category which must be considered is that Reggie Bush is on a very elite list of punt returners who have more than 3 punts returned for a touchdown. He has 4 during the regular season, which places him tied for 18th IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. That is out of thousands and thousands of punt returners. This once again defeats your contention that he is a bad punt returner. He is not a BAD punt returner. He is not a punt return specialist like Devin Hester. But to say that he is a bad punt returner is factually wrong.

I don't hate Reggie.

7.8 is bad for a punt returner (would rank 23rd in 2010). Why do you keep insisting that it isn't? 23rd out of 32 teams is bad. Our own Lance Moore has a better career average as a Saint than Reggie does, by almost an entire yard.

To suggest that Reggie isn't a bad returner is factually wrong wrong wrong IMO and backed up by facts.

As far as TD's go, 3 of his 4 TD's were all in 2008, and two were against the same team. Sorry, not impressed at all.

In 2008 he was GREAT, no question and anyone who says otherwise is foolish, but this leauge isn't about what you did 3 seasons ago, its about now.

But I'm sure he'll break a long one next year to go along with numerous bad ones (and a few fumbles) and the Reggie apologists will be in love with him all over again.

I'll leave it at this, Jim Henderson said it best...

For every one play that makes you say, “Who else could do that?” there are at least 10 plays that have you say, “Who else couldn’t do that?”

Thats Jim Henderson, and he's certainly no Bush hater either.

saintfan · 05-11-2011, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I don't hate Reggie.

7.8 is bad for a punt returner (would rank 23rd in 2010). Why do you keep insisting that it isn't? 23rd out of 32 teams is bad. Our own Lance Moore has a better career average as a Saint than Reggie does, by almost an entire yard.

To suggest that Reggie isn't a bad returner is factually wrong wrong wrong IMO and backed up by facts.

As far as TD's go, 3 of his 4 TD's were all in 2008, and two were against the same team. Sorry, not impressed at all.

In 2008 he was GREAT, no question and anyone who says otherwise is foolish, but this leauge isn't about what you did 3 seasons ago, its about now.

But I'm sure he'll break a long one next year to go along with numerous bad ones (and a few fumbles) and the Reggie apologists will be in love with him all over again.

I'll leave it at this, Jim Henderson said it best...

Thats Jim Henderson, and he's certainly no Bush hater either.

Danno. I know you always come back to Lance Moore as being a better returner than Bush, but by 'almost' a yard? In my opinion if we're talking less than a yard, on average, the conversation isn't worth having.

Reggie should shoulder some of the blame because of his east-west tendency on returns, but the fact is our punt return unit as a whole sucked balls last year.

As was the case with Brooks, so many people developed tunnel vision and blamed him for everything, even the crappy defense we had during his tenure. The supporting cast does make a difference. Just ask Emmit Smith.

Nobody wants Bush back at 11 million, but both Brees and Sean speak very highly of Reggie's value to the team and the offensive scheme. Frankly, that's good enough for me.

Danno · 05-11-2011, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by strato

I notice that when a persone gets on stuck on tearing someone down..there is usually issues with that person to begin with..same could be said here...

Not quite following that one.

Are you saying that because I don't think Reggie is nearly as good as some claim, and I back it up with fact after fact after fact, that somehow I have "issues" with Reggie Bush and I'm stuck on tearing him down?

The only issues I have with Reggie are on the field during the games.

Care to elaborate? Because if I'm reading you correctly it sounds like an insult.

And WTF is up with the Downo comments Strat?

st thomas · 05-11-2011, 04:46 PM

the way reginal bush is acting sounds like he just needs time out.except with the skipe ballsless tantrum thats all. i'm a team player. i believe we need him in our game plans to help out in situational plays no he don't have star nos# but he has star power which means in my book that he could go off on any given play and he has to be accounted for every play. now i did vote he gets traded, go figure what i know.

voodooido · 05-11-2011, 04:54 PM

Why do you people wanna keep this guy? He has done NOTHING but get hurt since he has been in the league. He would not be worth 3 mil a year. I would rather have Roby or Moore returning punts and Thomas in on 3rd down.

View Poll Results: Which Reggie Bush scenario would you like to see happen?
Reggie Bush stays with the Saints as one of the lead running backs	9	18.75%
Reggie Bush stays with the Saints, as a situational running back only	22	45.83%
Reggie Bush stays with the Saints, and the coaches convert him into a wide receiver	7	14.58%
Reggie Bush leaves the Saints, in exchange for one or more draft picks	8	16.67%
Reggie Bush leaves the Saints, in exchange for a player of the same caliber	2	4.17%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

05-11-2011, 10:12 AM	#21
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,581 Blog Entries: 5	STUPID GAY POlls!!! You can make stats anything you want them to be. Fact - He isn't a feature back and never was. Fact - being drafted #2 overall and you're ranked 53rd in any category... sucks. I don't care what his stats are for being drafted #2 he hasn't lived up to what he was suppose to be. RB's in the NFL looks they they are running seam routes but what it really is in reality are check downs - flair outs then sit right where the LB's were who by that time has either dropped back into coverage or blitzing. He does have speed to get open from LB's.
	E U P H O R I A

05-11-2011, 11:14 AM	#22
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,447	Originally Posted by ClintSaints Even being ranked 53rd isn't that bad. Did you realize that literally HUNDREDS of players do punt returns on a yearly basis? Being ranked 53rd out of 200 is good. Being ranked 23rd is even better. And you can't remove his one good year - that one good year is PART of his career and can't be dislodged no matter how hard you try. By the way, did you bother to list how many attempts he's had in each of those years? You are cherry-picking data to support your conclusions. 7.8 yards is a good career punt return average no matter how you slice it. I could turn right around and say, "Reggie Bush has had good punt returns, except for the year 2009. If you take 2009 out of the equation, he's averaged 9 yards per punt return." And anyway, in 2008 he did 20 returns, which is a good amount of returns to do an average. He only ranks 9th because there are some returners who ran only 1 or 2 punt returns and had a really good runback in the one or two times that they tried. Nice try though. 53rd is terrible no matter which way you slice it. Did you read the stats? And when you include eligible returners (which I did) he ranks near dead last as well. Total Average includes attempts, so its apples to apples. Even if you include EVERY SEASON, EVERY RETURN, his average would rank us 23rd in the NFL out of 32 teams. Sorry, you can spin it all you want, that is NOT good by any standard. Its amazing how people keep justifying his poor performances time and time again when the facts do not support it in any way shape or form. He has officially become Reggie Brooks.

05-11-2011, 11:41 AM	#23
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,581 Blog Entries: 5	LMAO. REGGIE BROOKS. It is still happening after all this time and a SB victory. Posts always come back around to Brooks, LMAO. I would even argue that a good punt returner is someone you don't have to hold your breath everytime you see him back to return a punt because you fear he is going to fumble it. No that isn't a good punt returner. Don't get me wrong I think we need him and can very much use him as a 3rd down back and slot type WR. But not at 11 mil. And please lets home Patrick or someone else can return punts instead of Reggie.
	E U P H O R I A

05-11-2011, 03:45 PM	#25
ClintSaints 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 603	Originally Posted by Danno 53rd is terrible no matter which way you slice it. Did you read the stats? And when you include eligible returners (which I did) he ranks near dead last as well. Total Average includes attempts, so its apples to apples. Even if you include EVERY SEASON, EVERY RETURN, his average would rank us 23rd in the NFL out of 32 teams. Sorry, you can spin it all you want, that is NOT good by any standard. Its amazing how people keep justifying his poor performances time and time again when the facts do not support it in any way shape or form. He has officially become Reggie Brooks. Why do you hate Reggie Bush so much? 7.8 yards per punt return is average it is not bad. Your original contention that he is a bad punt returner is simply wrong wrong wrong. What did Reggie Bush ever do to you? He had several incredible performances in the last season in which he was healthy 2009-2010 and he was absolute best in the playoffs and Super Bowl. This is not even in dispute. And then he had the misfortune of having a 250 pound idiot from the 49ers fall on top of him while he was on the ground which basically took him out of last season. Btw, the average amount of punts that take place in an NFL game is around 5 or 6. That's approximately 2600 punts in a season of NFL football. About half of those actually get returned (there were 1262 punt returns last season). There are approximately 40 punt returners in the NFL who return punts on a regular enough basis to even talk about. Therefore, the rank of 23rd is not out of a pool of 32 NFL teams because some teams use more than one regular punt returner. The rank of 23rd is out of a pool of about 40 returners or possibly even more. That's perfectly average, not bad. Another point is that Reggie Bush's average of 7.8 would have put him in 20th position for the 2010 season (minimum 20 returns), which again is not bad at all. And also, another category which must be considered is that Reggie Bush is on a very elite list of punt returners who have more than 3 punts returned for a touchdown. He has 4 during the regular season, which places him tied for 18th IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. That is out of thousands and thousands of punt returners. This once again defeats your contention that he is a bad punt returner. He is not a BAD punt returner. He is not a punt return specialist like Devin Hester. But to say that he is a bad punt returner is factually wrong. strato likes this.

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05-11-2011, 02:19 PM	#24
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 19,481	Reggie stays with a reduced salary and plays basically the same role since he came here. He is better with a one two punch. I have mixed feelings about him as a return man though.

05-11-2011, 04:04 PM	#26
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,447	Originally Posted by ClintSaints Why do you hate Reggie Bush so much? 7.8 yards per punt return is average it is not bad. Your original contention that he is a bad punt returner is simply wrong wrong wrong. What did Reggie Bush ever do to you? He had several incredible performances in the last season in which he was healthy 2009-2010 and he was absolute best in the playoffs and Super Bowl. This is not even in dispute. And then he had the misfortune of having a 250 pound idiot from the 49ers fall on top of him while he was on the ground which basically took him out of last season. Btw, the average amount of punts that take place in an NFL game is around 5 or 6. That's approximately 2600 punts in a season of NFL football. About half of those actually get returned (there were 1262 punt returns last season). There are approximately 40 punt returners in the NFL who return punts on a regular enough basis to even talk about. Therefore, the rank of 23rd is not out of a pool of 32 NFL teams because some teams use more than one regular punt returner. The rank of 23rd is out of a pool of about 40 returners or possibly even more. That's perfectly average, not bad. Another point is that Reggie Bush's average of 7.8 would have put him in 20th position for the 2010 season (minimum 20 returns), which again is not bad at all. And also, another category which must be considered is that Reggie Bush is on a very elite list of punt returners who have more than 3 punts returned for a touchdown. He has 4 during the regular season, which places him tied for 18th IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. That is out of thousands and thousands of punt returners. This once again defeats your contention that he is a bad punt returner. He is not a BAD punt returner. He is not a punt return specialist like Devin Hester. But to say that he is a bad punt returner is factually wrong. I don't hate Reggie. 7.8 is bad for a punt returner (would rank 23rd in 2010). Why do you keep insisting that it isn't? 23rd out of 32 teams is bad. Our own Lance Moore has a better career average as a Saint than Reggie does, by almost an entire yard. To suggest that Reggie isn't a bad returner is factually wrong wrong wrong IMO and backed up by facts. As far as TD's go, 3 of his 4 TD's were all in 2008, and two were against the same team. Sorry, not impressed at all. In 2008 he was GREAT, no question and anyone who says otherwise is foolish, but this leauge isn't about what you did 3 seasons ago, its about now. But I'm sure he'll break a long one next year to go along with numerous bad ones (and a few fumbles) and the Reggie apologists will be in love with him all over again. I'll leave it at this, Jim Henderson said it best... For every one play that makes you say, “Who else could do that?” there are at least 10 plays that have you say, “Who else couldn’t do that?” Thats Jim Henderson, and he's certainly no Bush hater either.

05-11-2011, 04:28 PM	#27
saintfan Site Donor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 17,342 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by Danno I don't hate Reggie. 7.8 is bad for a punt returner (would rank 23rd in 2010). Why do you keep insisting that it isn't? 23rd out of 32 teams is bad. Our own Lance Moore has a better career average as a Saint than Reggie does, by almost an entire yard. To suggest that Reggie isn't a bad returner is factually wrong wrong wrong IMO and backed up by facts. As far as TD's go, 3 of his 4 TD's were all in 2008, and two were against the same team. Sorry, not impressed at all. In 2008 he was GREAT, no question and anyone who says otherwise is foolish, but this leauge isn't about what you did 3 seasons ago, its about now. But I'm sure he'll break a long one next year to go along with numerous bad ones (and a few fumbles) and the Reggie apologists will be in love with him all over again. I'll leave it at this, Jim Henderson said it best... Thats Jim Henderson, and he's certainly no Bush hater either. Danno. I know you always come back to Lance Moore as being a better returner than Bush, but by 'almost' a yard? In my opinion if we're talking less than a yard, on average, the conversation isn't worth having. Reggie should shoulder some of the blame because of his east-west tendency on returns, but the fact is our punt return unit as a whole sucked balls last year. As was the case with Brooks, so many people developed tunnel vision and blamed him for everything, even the crappy defense we had during his tenure. The supporting cast does make a difference. Just ask Emmit Smith. Nobody wants Bush back at 11 million, but both Brees and Sean speak very highly of Reggie's value to the team and the offensive scheme. Frankly, that's good enough for me.
	C'mon Man...

05-11-2011, 04:45 PM	#28
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,447	Originally Posted by strato I notice that when a persone gets on stuck on tearing someone down..there is usually issues with that person to begin with..same could be said here... Not quite following that one. Are you saying that because I don't think Reggie is nearly as good as some claim, and I back it up with fact after fact after fact, that somehow I have "issues" with Reggie Bush and I'm stuck on tearing him down? The only issues I have with Reggie are on the field during the games. Care to elaborate? Because if I'm reading you correctly it sounds like an insult. And WTF is up with the Downo comments Strat?

05-11-2011, 04:46 PM	#29
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,623	the way reginal bush is acting sounds like he just needs time out.except with the skipe ballsless tantrum thats all. i'm a team player. i believe we need him in our game plans to help out in situational plays no he don't have star nos# but he has star power which means in my book that he could go off on any given play and he has to be accounted for every play. now i did vote he gets traded, go figure what i know.

05-11-2011, 04:54 PM	#30
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,498	Why do you people wanna keep this guy? He has done NOTHING but get hurt since he has been in the league. He would not be worth 3 mil a year. I would rather have Roby or Moore returning punts and Thomas in on 3rd down.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,498

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