rusta

I believe haz should go, hopefully on his own terms, but i think he needs to go

I think haz is a good coach, I just don\'t think he\'s the right coach for this team, this team has never rallied around haz or given him their best, young teams like this one need a good amount of motivation, haz doesn\'t seem to have that ability, I think with more veterans like we had in 2000 haz could excel

I hope that he isn\'t fired because i think that would impact the teams morale negatively, the last thing this team needs is more negativity

the more important question here is: who do we replace him with?

WhoDat

Billy is starting to sound like me!!

OK, so most everyone thinks he SHOULD go, but probably WON\'T go. Is that right? If that\'s the case, will any of you be excited about the Saints next year? Can they be better than 8-8 or 9-7? Can they compete for a SB?

BillyC

Yes, I do think they can be better than 8-8 or 9-7. I always have and always will believe that the PLAYERS are more responsible for winning games than COACHES. If Haslett can go out and get some PLAYERS to address some of the weaknesses, then I think it would even be probable. Problem is, I don\'t see that happening. Besides that, I don\'t like some things that I\'ve seen over the past couple of years and I feel that Haslett has no one to blame but himself.

As far as getting excited? I\'ll always be excited when a new season rolls around. Ever known a Saints fan that wasn\'t?

[Edited on 13/12/2003 by BillyC]

BillyC

Way back myself and LummOx had a discussion on if players or coaches had more to do with winning. I said that players were more responsible for winning and he said coaches were. Now, I\'m not trying to bring back up that same debate between myself and LummOx, but I was looking at the records of some possible coaching cadidates and one thing I noticed about all head coaches is that once the talent was gone their records suffered. That supports my theory that players are more responsible for wins.

Just for fun, here are some examples :


Jimmy Johnson -- Notice Jimmy wasn\'t NEARLY as successful without ALL that talent in Dallas.

1989 dal | 1 15 0 | 0 0 |
| 1990 dal | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1991 dal | 11 5 0 | 1 1 |
| 1992 dal | 13 3 0 | 3 0 |
| 1993 dal | 12 4 0 | 3 0 |
| 1996 mia | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |
| 1997 mia | 9 7 0 | 0 1 |
| 1998 mia | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |
| 1999 mia | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |
+----------+--------------+----------+

Jim Mora -- When the Dome Patrol was gone, so were the winning seasons.
TM | W L T | W L |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| 1986 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1987 nor | 12 3 0 | 0 1 |
| 1988 nor | 10 6 0 | 0 0 |
| 1989 nor | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 1990 nor | 8 8 0 | 0 1 |
| 1991 nor | 11 5 0 | 0 1 |
| 1992 nor | 12 4 0 | 0 1 |
| 1993 nor | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |
| 1994 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1995 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1996 nor | 2 6 0 | 0 0 |


Bill Parcells -- Even the great Parcells couldn\'t get it done without talent. Look at how much his record flucuated during his coaching career. What do you think the reason for that was?

Bill Parcells
1983 nyg | 3 12 1 | 0 0 |
| 1984 nyg | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |
| 1985 nyg | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |
| 1986 nyg | 14 2 0 | 3 0 |
| 1987 nyg | 6 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1988 nyg | 10 6 0 | 0 0 |
| 1989 nyg | 12 4 0 | 0 1 |
| 1990 nyg | 13 3 0 | 3 0 |
| 1993 nwe | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |
| 1994 nwe | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 1995 nwe | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 1996 nwe | 11 5 0 | 2 1 |
| 1997 nyj | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 1998 nyj | 12 4 0 | 1 1 |
| 1999 nyj | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |
| 2003 dal | 8 5 0 | 0 0 |


Observations: -- None of those coaches did well when the talent wasn\'t there. As good as those coaches were, not any scheme, or anything else, could get them to the promised land. Now, sure, coaching plays a big part when you have talent, but my point is -- Until we get enough talented players on the Saints, we aren\'t going to do anything no matter what coach we have. So, yes, Haslett can be successful if we have enough talented players.

[Edited on 13/12/2003 by BillyC]

Cassady37

Billy, let\'s not forget the main player who had more to do with his team winning than the coach...Michael Vick. And that\'s just ONE player vs. a future hall of famer coach.

BillyC

Very, very, true.

BillyC

All I know is Haslett has MORE negitives than he does positives. I said earleir that I couldn\'t think of any positives and I meant it. What are the positives? I suppose you could come up with something.

This team has collapsed at then end of the last 2-years. This year we come out in preseason stumbling, bumbling, fumbling, and it carried right over into the regular season. This team was no more prepared to start the regular season than Iraq\'s army was to face the Americans. You can\'t blame that on the players, that has to go on Jim Haslett. I\'d be real curious to know who Jim Haslett blames.

Who\'s fault are these?

1. Collapsed at the end of 2001 season.
2. Collapsed at the end of 2002 season.
3. Weren\'t prepared to play at the beginning of 2003 season.
4. Have the highest player turnover of any team in the league.
5. Bad offseason aquisitions.
6. Teams aren\'t disciplined.
7. Players don\'t progress under his direction.



[Edited on 13/12/2003 by BillyC]

deadflatbird

He is doing an ok job. I am happy with the teams personel grade overall c+ but we need something to happen on that OL and D. I think he needs to go... I think we need to look at getting rid of a coach every 4 years unless we have a Ring to show for it. The team is to comfortable with just doing there jobs and needs a shake up.

Danno

One thing I liked about the firey Zook, his defenses played like they wanted blood. Good old fashioned smashmouth football. Venturi may know all the X\'s and O\'s as well as anyone but I don\'t think he can get his players in kill-mode. Zook did.
Venturi will probably stay around because of his knowledge of the game, but we need a Zook type to light a fire under some assses and get them to play like their hair\'s on fire.
Remember the Game Whitehead had where he left everything on the field. Our best defensive effort this year. That kind of effort happened weekly when Zook was here.

Zook + our players + a few key additions = top 10 smashmouth unit.