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Labor agreement remains in limbo

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- In less than two hours Thursday, euphoria over the 38-month labor dispute between NFL players and owners being over began turning sour. At 7:02 p.m. ET at an airport hotel here, after the league's owners voted ...

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Old 07-22-2011, 10:13 AM   #1
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COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- In less than two hours Thursday, euphoria over the 38-month labor dispute between NFL players and owners being over began turning sour.
At 7:02 p.m. ET at an airport hotel here, after the league's owners voted 31-0 with one abstention (surprise -- the Raiders balked), the full roster of owners gave a standing ovation to Commissioner Roger Goodell and the negotiating team that got the deal done. But then USA Today reported the players were rejecting the deal, the union denied it, and SI's Jim Trotter reported union boss DeMaurice Smith emailed his executive board: "There is no agreement between the NFL and the players at this time."
That's the kind of day it was, a crazy one with more twists and turns than a Stieg Larsson novel. And it's not over yet.
That was apparent with the sending of an email from the union's veteran general counsel, Richard Berthelsen, to the board of player representatives late Thursday night. The tone in the email, obtained by SI.com and other media outlets, was harsh enough to suggest an agreement to end the labor war could be far away. He said the deal "would in my view violate federal labor laws ... [prohibiting] employers from coercing their employees into forming a union. Those laws prohibit employers from coercing their employees into forming a union, and could result in any Agreement reached through the procedure being declared null and void."
Berthesen went on to write the proposal gives the three days (next Wednesday through Friday) "to bargain any changes to the old CBA, with the new CBA becoming final on Saturday, July 30.
"If the NFL does not agree to the players' proposed changes," wrote Berthelsen, "the old CBA terms on benefits, discipline, safety, etc. will remain unchanged for another 10 years."
What struck one owners' source Thursday night as so incredible was the impression that was left in the owners' room three hours earlier -- that this was a deal the union would agree to, despite the fact that there would be hard feelings over issues lost on both sides. Goodell had spent the four months since players felt steamrolled during mediation in Washington to try to undo the bitterness players felt during those talks. And those efforts, seemingly, continued Thursday.
There were two long conversations between Smith and Goodell, an attempt to build a bridge that would result in a dual vote late in the day -- first by the owners here, next by the board of player representatives from the union offices in Washington -- resulting in a deal. The league, attempting to end a 132-day lockout of players and to stave off the first missed regular-season games in the league since 1987, then slam-dunked the ratification of a 10-year collective bargaining agreement with players.


Read more: Upon further review, NFL labor agreement remains in limbo - Peter King - SI.com

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Old 07-22-2011, 12:18 PM   #2
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Goodell had spent the four months since players felt steamrolled during mediation in Washington to try to undo the bitterness players felt during those talks. And those efforts, seemingly, continued Thursday.
Only to turn around and pull a publicity stunt to force the hand of the players by creating a "deal" which excluded some issues the players were fighting for and going public with it. It's like saying "here's the new deal, take it or leave it."

The players reaction has been pretty obvious to me.

Good job Goodell and owners... go tick their union off more, that will bring them closer...

The owners just don't want to take the blame for the lockout, they want the blame to shift to the players. Both sides are at fault and this just added gasoline to a fire that was about to burn itself out.
Saint_LB and strato like this.
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:53 PM   #3
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I'm still not jumping yet Strato!
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by strato View Post
So if no deal by next Wednesday..then the preseason is jeopardy?
NFL football players DO NOT like training camp and DO NOT want to play 4 pre-season games. End of story.

The NFL pays them well because they literally own them. NFL players get like, what... 2 months off a year?

If it was up to them they would have a college type program with required time off, maybe 2 (at most) preseason games and get paid MORE in doing so.

So yeah, the players are gonna make the owners sweat, and if left to them, they would chop into the preseason.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:50 PM   #6
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Green Bay Packers CEO Mark Murphy told reporters in a conference call that the owners have "put our pens down" and are done negotiating.

"We've negotiated in good faith with the union. We've reached an agreement on all the key points," Murphy said on the call. "They know what we ratified and they're voting to ratify the same thing."

The proposed deal would make significant changes in offseason workout schedules, reducing team programs by five weeks and cutting organized team activities (OTAs) from 14 to 10 sessions. There would be limited on-field practice time and contact, and more days off for players.

Free agent linebacker Takeo Spikes says the players felt disrespected when the owners voted on a new CBA. Plus, Spikes says no amount of pressure will get the players to approve an unfair deal.

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Current players would be able to stay in the medical plan for life. They also would have an injury protection benefit of up to $1 million of a player's salary for the year after his injury and up to $500,000 in the second year after his injury.

A total of $50 million per year would go into a joint fund for medical research, health-care programs and charities.

One other rule the two sides have agreed on for the coming season: NFL gameday rosters would expand from 45 to 46 players, with the No. 3 quarterback no longer counting as an inactive player, a league source told ESPN's Schefter.

Also, under the agreement approved Thursday by NFL owners, minimum player salaries would increase by $55,000 over 2010 numbers, a league source told ESPN's Andrew Brandt. The source said first-year players will make a minimum $375,000 and second-year players a minimum $450,000. Approximately 900 of the league's players earn minimum salaries.
NFL lockout -- NFLPA will work through weekend, sources say - ESPN

I'f I'm an owner I'm done too. I'm about ready to pull a Reagan when he told the air traffic controllers to get back to work or lose their jobs. If I'm an owner, at this point, it's, "Report to training camp with THIS deal or go bag groceries."

Now look, I can understand if the players aren't happy seeing some items in the deal the owners ratified they hadn't seen previously, but what ARE those things? From my chair, it looks like the players, who IMO already had a damn sweet deal, are getting an even sweeter deal, and they STILL aren't happy?

C'mon guys. Y'all don't OWN the teams, okay? Sign the effing deal and get your asses back to work already...seriously...

C'mon Man...

Last edited by saintfan; 07-22-2011 at 06:52 PM..
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:13 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
NFL lockout -- NFLPA will work through weekend, sources say - ESPN

I'f I'm an owner I'm done too. I'm about ready to pull a Reagan when he told the air traffic controllers to get back to work or lose their jobs. If I'm an owner, at this point, it's, "Report to training camp with THIS deal or go bag groceries."
Apples and gorillas. The Air Traffic Controllers were holding an illegal strike. The players did not walk out of the old CBA. The owners prematurely terminated it, getting out just very first moment that they could.

Now look, I can understand if the players aren't happy seeing some items in the deal the owners ratified they hadn't seen previously, but what ARE those things?
Does it matter? Would you sign a 10 year contract that you haven't read, no matter what's in it?

From my chair, it looks like the players, who IMO already had a damn sweet deal, are getting an even sweeter deal, and they STILL aren't happy?
In my view, the very fact that the owners signed on this deal 31-0 means that it cannot be sweet to the players. It's not a compromise unless both sides have some pissed off constituents.
C'mon guys. Y'all don't OWN the teams, okay? Sign the effing deal and get your asses back to work already...seriously...
I totally disagree. While the players do not own the teams, NFL teams do not exist without these players. These players are close to singularly unique. They collectively do things that no other human beings on the planet can do. This isn't grocery bagging or making boxes. These owners cannot just fire this set of players and get some other set of folks to come in and do the job. Trust me, if they could put out the same product with cheaper labor, they certainly would. It would certainly be easier to come up with 32 different owners, than to come up with 1700 more players that can play this game at this level. You remember what happened in 1987 when the NFL tried to use replacement players?


So this is a partnership. Owners provide resources. Players provide talent. They share the $9 billion/yr in revenues. Both have the right, if not the obligation, to try to get best deal they can get. This CBA is going to be 10 years. I'd rather wait a couple of weeks and have two side come up with the best deal possible, that creates reasonable happiness and stability on both sides for the next 10 years, then to complain about one side or the other signing right now so we can see a couple of completely meaningless preseason games with players who will in fact be bagging groceries and making boxes in a month or two.

Remember that it was the owners unhappiness with the last deal, which they got strongarmed into by mounting public pressure, that caused this lockout to begin with. Keep complaining, and you'll see players striking after the next CBA runs its course.

They both need each other. They both need to come out of this with some things they want. They both need to give up some things too. It takes time to get done.

I can almost guarantee you that no matter what happens, our Saints will be trotting on the field September 8th to stomp on the Packers. So what does it really matter what happens until then?

SFIAH

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Old 07-22-2011, 08:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
Apples and gorillas. The Air Traffic Controllers were holding an illegal strike. The players did not walk out of the old CBA. The owners prematurely terminated it, getting out just very first moment that they could.

Not "apples to gorillas" in the spirit, which was my intent. I am well versed on the difference between that strike and this lockout, but thanks anyway

Does it matter? Would you sign a 10 year contract that you haven't read, no matter what's in it?

No, and I'm not suggesting the players do either. I want to know the specifics of why the players seem so miffed by the deal the owners ratified.

In my view, the very fact that the owners signed on this deal 31-0 means that it cannot be sweet to the players. It's not a compromise unless both sides have some pissed off constituents.

In fact it was 31-1, right? In any case, you are suggesting that because the owners were nearly unanimous that there's a fox in the hen house? Paranoid much? I get where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, that tally alone does not a bad deal make. Revenue has already been agreed to, and we both know it's about money, so WHAT ELSE has them so miffed? What the players had before this drama, by ANY MEASURE, was beyond sweet. With that 31-1 vote they get to make MORE and work LESS. Sounds pretty damn sweet to me.

I totally disagree. While the players do not own the teams, NFL teams do not exist without these players. These players are close to singularly unique. They collectively do things that no other human beings on the planet can do. This isn't grocery bagging or making boxes. These owners cannot just fire this set of players and get some other set of folks to come in and do the job. Trust me, if they could put out the same product with cheaper labor, they certainly would. It would certainly be easier to come up with 32 different owners, than to come up with 1700 more players that can play this game at this level. You remember what happened in 1987 when the NFL tried to use replacement players?

These players make up the current rosters, but I can assure you the NFL will go right on going on if every damn one of them never plays another down, and if the owners are TRULY done - if they've really put down their pens as I hope they have, then you'll see a lot of players changing their tunes, but fast. The owners know they need the players. I don't argue that. I'm just not so sure the players are fully aware of the fact that they need the owners. If I'm an owner I'll cut my expenses and lower the quality of play if that's what I have to do. 11 million dollars a year to play football is insane, and prices are only going to go up. The least paid and seldom played are making well over 6 figures.

So this is a partnership. Owners provide resources. Players provide talent. They share the $9 billion/yr in revenues. Both have the right, if not the obligation, to try to get best deal they can get. This CBA is going to be 10 years. I'd rather wait a couple of weeks and have two side come up with the best deal possible, that creates reasonable happiness and stability on both sides for the next 10 years, then to complain about one side or the other signing right now so we can see a couple of completely meaningless preseason games with players who will in fact be bagging groceries and making boxes in a month or two.

This CBA is going to be 10 years with a player-sponsored 'out' clause at 7 years...you know...the same type of 'out-clause' those players bashed the owners for exercising this year? They're talking about both sides of their collective ass. The owners may have just embarrassed them in public. Good. And if you can't define 'reasonable happiness' at their salaries then I don't know what to tell you. PRACTICE SQUAD players made 88 THOUSAND DOLLARS with the previous agreement. FIVE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS a week. No, they've been living under a sweetheart deal. Anybody who says differently isn't living in the real world.

Remember that it was the owners unhappiness with the last deal, which they got strongarmed into by mounting public pressure, that caused this lockout to begin with. Keep complaining, and you'll see players striking after the next CBA runs its course.

If you were an owner you wouldn't like it either. They took the deal and bailed when they could, which is more than I can say for the players used-to-be-union who wants to have it's cake and eat it too.

They both need each other. They both need to come out of this with some things they want. They both need to give up some things too. It takes time to get done.

They do. They do. And they are. So WHAT is it about this latest agreement that has these players saying they've been 'hookwinked'? Woudn't you like to know? I'd like to know, because from my chair they've got it made in the shade with ice cold lemonade. No, they HAD that deal, the offer on the table right now is EVEN BETTER because they're going to make more and work less. Hello?

I can almost guarantee you that no matter what happens, our Saints will be trotting on the field September 8th to stomp on the Packers. So what does it really matter what happens until then?

SFIAH
It matters because we, the fans are being manipulated at every turn, by both sides to be certain. I side with the owners because, well, they're the owners. They can broadcast 'partnership' all they want, but that's not what it is. If it were then contracts wouldn't be prematurely terminated and players wouldn't hold out in violation of contracts for MORE money. Partnership my ass. It's a business. In business there are workers and there are owners. Anybody who believes the NFL to be any different, IMO, is smokin what they're rollin'.

Last edited by saintfan; 07-22-2011 at 08:17 PM..
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