Jake lights up the Saints boards

BlackandBlue · 01-13-2004, 12:15 AM

Micky Spagnola went on the radio and stated that the Cowboys offered Delhomme a contract that was similar to the one he received from Carolina. Delhomme thought he had a better shot at starting with the Panthers.
But maybe it was job security. Honestly, if I was Delhomme and I was comparing the Cowboys and the Panthers offense, I would probably lean towards Carolina, especially since they signed Stephen Davis, and he wouldn\'t have to shoulder the load.

saintfan · 01-13-2004, 09:17 AM

Well I thank you Whodat. That\'s a damn good response to the question that was asked of 08. It doesn\'t really answer the question, but it\'s a lot better than 08\'s \"square peg / round hole\" response. You just can\'t seem to get me dude. My participation in this thread is not to drag Jake through the mud. My intention (quite plainly) was to get 08 to back his \"Conspiracy Theory\". My contention is Jake, for whatever the reason, was unable to show his coaches (plural -- meaning not just Jim) what he had.

08 now contends Haz conspired to keep Jake off the field back when he was the Pittsburg Defensive coordinator ?!?

If you wanna support that theory that\'s your business. I\'d submit that most of us know better. I\'d submit that you know better too. I\'d submit that 08 know\'s better as well. My guess is most of what he posts is tounge-in-cheek, so take him seriously and defend him if you feel it necessary. In other words...knock yo self out buddy. If it feels good do it!

[Edited on 13/1/2004 by saintfan]

WhoDat · 01-13-2004, 09:50 AM

My contention is Jake, for whatever the reason, was unable to show his coaches (plural -- meaning not just Jim) what he had.

And my contention is that he did show many current and former Saints coaches and executives what he was capable of. Those people all said he was good enough to build a team around, or at least, good enough to start in a lot of places around the league. Haslett, being one of those people, was right in that assessment. However, when it came time to backup those claims, he did not. Was it a simple mistake that even Haslett kicks himself about now? Maybe. I still contend that Haslett did not make a change b/c he had too much invested in Aaron Brooks, was being pigheaded, and did not want the second QB controversy in two years. If you feel that Haslett\'s actions were justified, hey good for you. I think they demonstrated a big problem a long time ago. I called Haslett for that and continued to say that I preferred Jake over Brooks (something I said BEFORE Brooks\' injury). Now, a little over a year later almost everyone agrees that Haslett is not doing a great job as a coach and the AB vs. Delhomme argument is starting to regain momentum as Jake continues to prove that he is capable of being as good a QB as Aaron Brooks, if not better.

In essence, you\'ve argued that Haslett was fair in his assessment and treatment of Delhomme - I disagree. You\'ve argued that Brooks is the better QB. Maybe he was at the time b/c of playing experience, but after this season that statement no longer holds true. It looks to me like they\'re in a dead heat - too bad for Brooks that Delhomme has progressed more in this one season than he has in three and a half.

[Edited on 13/1/2004 by WhoDat]

BillyC · 01-13-2004, 10:34 AM

WhoDat --

Delhomme has progressed more in one year than Brooks in 3? Care to back that up? Is that because you feel that Delhomme has played so well and that\'s the reason the Panthers are in the NFC championship game? We both know better than that. Let\'s look at strictly the play of both QB\'s?

Here\'s my arguement for Brooks:

1. Led the league in fewest interceptions.
2. Plays for an inadequete coaching staff.
3. Has been playing with a team that has an inadequete defense.
4. Delhomme has a better offensive line, that allows him all day in the pocket.
5. Our play calling is terrible at times and because of that, Deuce has been absolutely shut down. Has the Panthers running game been shut down like ours? If you\'re answer is no -- Why not?

Anyway, Delhomme is more vocal and seems to be more of a vocal leader, but that\'s about all you can say. Delhomme has made a BUNCH of bone-headed decisions this year. A BUNCH!!

saintfan · 01-13-2004, 11:03 AM

One last repsonse to this thread and then I\'m done here.

Whether it was a mistake or not is a matter of opinion, and I\'m not saying your wrong whodat. It\'s commonplace around here to think Brooks cost the Saints a shot at the playoffs at the end of last year. I can\'t tell you he was the same QB in those last three games, but I will tell you that Jake Reed, in my opinion, did far more to cost the Saints a playoff spot. Go back and watch the Carolina game from that year and you\'ll see Brooks hit Reed dead in his hands with two different \"would be\" touchdown passes that he dropped. Jim\'s contention wasn\'t that Delhomme couldn\'t play, it was that Brooks could. That will be debated here and elsewhere and that\'s fine.

I want to make it perfectly clear that it seems this thread has been turned into yet another Brooks/Delhomme debate. The very debate YOU said you were tired of many months ago. Yet, here we are again. I didn\'t start it. Billy didn\'t start it. Go figure huh?

I asked a very simple question and it still hasn\'t been answered. Clearly it\'s not going to be answered...at least no one seems willing to give it an honest shot. Just asking the question \"Why did so many people seem to fail to recognize what Jake has to offer?\" has generated more comparisons and that wasn\'t the intention. I can\'t believe Jake has to be verified through slamming another player. He surely shouldn\'t have to be. Jake is doing well of his own accord isn\'t he? So why did it take him so long? Why didn\'t his coaches see it sooner? Ditka didn\'t see it right? Haz didn\'t see it either right? Whomever coached him in NFLE didn\'t see it. For that matter neither did John Fox, since Jake was the backup when the season started right? In 08\'s opinion it\'s because \"square pegs do not go in to round holes\". Is that an answer? You might think it is, but I do not. That\'s all. Nothing more. 08 can\'t just answer. I knew he wouldn\'t be able to. I kinda figured you\'d be in here eventaully to back him up...and you arrived right on time. So, maybe you can answer it. Maybe you can\'t. Let me try it ok?

Why did it take so long for Jake to make his big splash?

Hmmmm...maybe he doesn\'t practice well. Maybe he throws a lot of interceptions in practice ( I really don\'t know if he does or doesn\'t). Maybe he\'s not tall enough or doesn\'t have impressive arm strength and coaches are reluctant to give a guy a shot when he\'s not \"prototypical\". I really don\'t know.

OR

There\'s a Conspiracy against Jake designed and executed by Haslett that started when Jim was still with the Steelers with the one goal of keeping Jake Delhomme off the field at any cost.

Which do you think is more likely Whodat? Forget 08 and his silly posts for a minute and tell me, which do you REALLY believe is more likely? Remember this has NOTHING in the world to do with Aaron Brooks ok? Leave Brooks out of it if you can and tell me what you think...which is more likely to be true?

Danno · 01-13-2004, 11:12 AM

Jim\'s contention wasn\'t that Delhomme couldn\'t play, it was that Brooks could.

Brilliant. THE best line I\'ve read about the Brooks debate all year. But its lost on too many Brooks bashers and Jake worshippers.

But I give Jake all the credit in the world for beating out Rodney Peete and Chris Weinkie.

I\'d bet JT O\'Sullivan would be starting for Carolina this Sunday if he had signed with Carolina instead of Jake.

saintz08 · 01-13-2004, 11:13 AM

Saintsfan

There\'s a Conspiracy against Jake designed and executed by Haslett that started when Jim was still with the Steelers with the one goal of keeping Jake Delhomme off the field at any cost.

Any idea what the connection would be ???

Or are you spoutin out your cake hole ???

BillyC · 01-13-2004, 11:13 AM

saintfan --

The answer is simple really. It took Jake so long to get on the field because he failed to impress anyone that wasn\'t from Louisiana!! It\'s really that simple. If Jake were from New York, you wouldn\'t see all the Jake supporters. Seriously, what made ANYONE think Jake would be a good QB other than he was from south Louisiana and he had a cajun accent. He never played enough for anyone to think he could do anything. The other reason folks wanted Jake on the field is because of their dislike for Brooks.

The reason Jake became the starting QB in Carolina wasn\'t because he impressed John Fox. Nope!! It because Carolina had no other choice, they had Rodney Peete..NUFF SAID!!

But, Jakes done well. But, to hear some of these folks, he\'s done some incredible things. Which he has not. It amazing to hear the Brooks bashers give Delhomme a free pass. Go figure!!

saintz08 · 01-13-2004, 12:31 PM

Saintsfan spin

Jake also failed to crack the starting lineup in NFL Europe as I recall.

FORMER NFL Europe League quarterback JAKE DELHOMME (Amsterdam 1998/Frankfurt 1999) came off the bench to throw three touchdown passes in Carolina Delhomme, who won a World Bowl with the Galaxy in 1999.

ScottyRo · 01-13-2004, 12:48 PM

\"But, Jakes done well. But, to hear some of these folks, he\'s done some incredible things. Which he has not.\"

I have to disagree, Billy. I think Jake has done an amazing job this year. Now, I don\'t particularly think he is an outstanding QB at this point and his stats tend to bear that out. But he is winning games as the starting QB and that is important, too.

I think most of us would rather have W\'s than a QB with great stats. My problem with Jake being annointed a QB God is that his good fortune this year might not exist if he were starting for another team.

Compare the Saints and the Panthers and you\'ll see two teams with pretty good offenses. Carolina\'s was actually better than most of us had anticipated. The defenses are a different story especially throughout the first half of the year. The Panther\'s D was just out and out better than the Saints.

Carolina\'s D kept them in their games. Had Jake been playing with the Saints he wouldn\'t have had that cushion.

Lastly, if not for further good fortune from the referees, Jake\'s record as a starter would likely be worse. I know of at least two games this year that Carolina was helped by questionable calls. Had those calls been made correctly, Jake is 9-7 starter. Still good, but not great.

01-13-2004, 12:15 AM	#31
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Jake lights up the Saints boards Micky Spagnola went on the radio and stated that the Cowboys offered Delhomme a contract that was similar to the one he received from Carolina. Delhomme thought he had a better shot at starting with the Panthers. But maybe it was job security. Honestly, if I was Delhomme and I was comparing the Cowboys and the Panthers offense, I would probably lean towards Carolina, especially since they signed Stephen Davis, and he wouldn\'t have to shoulder the load.

01-13-2004, 09:17 AM	#32
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Jake lights up the Saints boards Well I thank you Whodat. That\'s a damn good response to the question that was asked of 08. It doesn\'t really answer the question, but it\'s a lot better than 08\'s \"square peg / round hole\" response. You just can\'t seem to get me dude. My participation in this thread is not to drag Jake through the mud. My intention (quite plainly) was to get 08 to back his \"Conspiracy Theory\". My contention is Jake, for whatever the reason, was unable to show his coaches (plural -- meaning not just Jim) what he had. 08 now contends Haz conspired to keep Jake off the field back when he was the Pittsburg Defensive coordinator ?!? If you wanna support that theory that\'s your business. I\'d submit that most of us know better. I\'d submit that you know better too. I\'d submit that 08 know\'s better as well. My guess is most of what he posts is tounge-in-cheek, so take him seriously and defend him if you feel it necessary. In other words...knock yo self out buddy. If it feels good do it! [Edited on 13/1/2004 by saintfan]
	C'mon Man...

01-13-2004, 09:50 AM	#33
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Jake lights up the Saints boards My contention is Jake, for whatever the reason, was unable to show his coaches (plural -- meaning not just Jim) what he had. And my contention is that he did show many current and former Saints coaches and executives what he was capable of. Those people all said he was good enough to build a team around, or at least, good enough to start in a lot of places around the league. Haslett, being one of those people, was right in that assessment. However, when it came time to backup those claims, he did not. Was it a simple mistake that even Haslett kicks himself about now? Maybe. I still contend that Haslett did not make a change b/c he had too much invested in Aaron Brooks, was being pigheaded, and did not want the second QB controversy in two years. If you feel that Haslett\'s actions were justified, hey good for you. I think they demonstrated a big problem a long time ago. I called Haslett for that and continued to say that I preferred Jake over Brooks (something I said BEFORE Brooks\' injury). Now, a little over a year later almost everyone agrees that Haslett is not doing a great job as a coach and the AB vs. Delhomme argument is starting to regain momentum as Jake continues to prove that he is capable of being as good a QB as Aaron Brooks, if not better. In essence, you\'ve argued that Haslett was fair in his assessment and treatment of Delhomme - I disagree. You\'ve argued that Brooks is the better QB. Maybe he was at the time b/c of playing experience, but after this season that statement no longer holds true. It looks to me like they\'re in a dead heat - too bad for Brooks that Delhomme has progressed more in this one season than he has in three and a half. [Edited on 13/1/2004 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

01-13-2004, 10:34 AM	#34
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Jake lights up the Saints boards WhoDat -- Delhomme has progressed more in one year than Brooks in 3? Care to back that up? Is that because you feel that Delhomme has played so well and that\'s the reason the Panthers are in the NFC championship game? We both know better than that. Let\'s look at strictly the play of both QB\'s? Here\'s my arguement for Brooks: 1. Led the league in fewest interceptions. 2. Plays for an inadequete coaching staff. 3. Has been playing with a team that has an inadequete defense. 4. Delhomme has a better offensive line, that allows him all day in the pocket. 5. Our play calling is terrible at times and because of that, Deuce has been absolutely shut down. Has the Panthers running game been shut down like ours? If you\'re answer is no -- Why not? Anyway, Delhomme is more vocal and seems to be more of a vocal leader, but that\'s about all you can say. Delhomme has made a BUNCH of bone-headed decisions this year. A BUNCH!!
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

01-13-2004, 11:03 AM	#35
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Jake lights up the Saints boards One last repsonse to this thread and then I\'m done here. Whether it was a mistake or not is a matter of opinion, and I\'m not saying your wrong whodat. It\'s commonplace around here to think Brooks cost the Saints a shot at the playoffs at the end of last year. I can\'t tell you he was the same QB in those last three games, but I will tell you that Jake Reed, in my opinion, did far more to cost the Saints a playoff spot. Go back and watch the Carolina game from that year and you\'ll see Brooks hit Reed dead in his hands with two different \"would be\" touchdown passes that he dropped. Jim\'s contention wasn\'t that Delhomme couldn\'t play, it was that Brooks could. That will be debated here and elsewhere and that\'s fine. I want to make it perfectly clear that it seems this thread has been turned into yet another Brooks/Delhomme debate. The very debate YOU said you were tired of many months ago. Yet, here we are again. I didn\'t start it. Billy didn\'t start it. Go figure huh? I asked a very simple question and it still hasn\'t been answered. Clearly it\'s not going to be answered...at least no one seems willing to give it an honest shot. Just asking the question \"Why did so many people seem to fail to recognize what Jake has to offer?\" has generated more comparisons and that wasn\'t the intention. I can\'t believe Jake has to be verified through slamming another player. He surely shouldn\'t have to be. Jake is doing well of his own accord isn\'t he? So why did it take him so long? Why didn\'t his coaches see it sooner? Ditka didn\'t see it right? Haz didn\'t see it either right? Whomever coached him in NFLE didn\'t see it. For that matter neither did John Fox, since Jake was the backup when the season started right? In 08\'s opinion it\'s because \"square pegs do not go in to round holes\". Is that an answer? You might think it is, but I do not. That\'s all. Nothing more. 08 can\'t just answer. I knew he wouldn\'t be able to. I kinda figured you\'d be in here eventaully to back him up...and you arrived right on time. So, maybe you can answer it. Maybe you can\'t. Let me try it ok? Why did it take so long for Jake to make his big splash? Hmmmm...maybe he doesn\'t practice well. Maybe he throws a lot of interceptions in practice ( I really don\'t know if he does or doesn\'t). Maybe he\'s not tall enough or doesn\'t have impressive arm strength and coaches are reluctant to give a guy a shot when he\'s not \"prototypical\". I really don\'t know. OR There\'s a Conspiracy against Jake designed and executed by Haslett that started when Jim was still with the Steelers with the one goal of keeping Jake Delhomme off the field at any cost. Which do you think is more likely Whodat? Forget 08 and his silly posts for a minute and tell me, which do you REALLY believe is more likely? Remember this has NOTHING in the world to do with Aaron Brooks ok? Leave Brooks out of it if you can and tell me what you think...which is more likely to be true?
	C'mon Man...

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01-13-2004, 11:12 AM	#36
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Jake lights up the Saints boards Jim\'s contention wasn\'t that Delhomme couldn\'t play, it was that Brooks could. Brilliant. THE best line I\'ve read about the Brooks debate all year. But its lost on too many Brooks bashers and Jake worshippers. But I give Jake all the credit in the world for beating out Rodney Peete and Chris Weinkie. I\'d bet JT O\'Sullivan would be starting for Carolina this Sunday if he had signed with Carolina instead of Jake.

01-13-2004, 11:13 AM	#37
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Jake lights up the Saints boards Saintsfan There\'s a Conspiracy against Jake designed and executed by Haslett that started when Jim was still with the Steelers with the one goal of keeping Jake Delhomme off the field at any cost. Any idea what the connection would be ??? Or are you spoutin out your cake hole ???
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

01-13-2004, 12:31 PM	#39
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Jake lights up the Saints boards Saintsfan spin Jake also failed to crack the starting lineup in NFL Europe as I recall. FORMER NFL Europe League quarterback JAKE DELHOMME (Amsterdam 1998/Frankfurt 1999) came off the bench to throw three touchdown passes in Carolina Delhomme, who won a World Bowl with the Galaxy in 1999.
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

01-13-2004, 12:48 PM	#40
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Jake lights up the Saints boards \"But, Jakes done well. But, to hear some of these folks, he\'s done some incredible things. Which he has not.\" I have to disagree, Billy. I think Jake has done an amazing job this year. Now, I don\'t particularly think he is an outstanding QB at this point and his stats tend to bear that out. But he is winning games as the starting QB and that is important, too. I think most of us would rather have W\'s than a QB with great stats. My problem with Jake being annointed a QB God is that his good fortune this year might not exist if he were starting for another team. Compare the Saints and the Panthers and you\'ll see two teams with pretty good offenses. Carolina\'s was actually better than most of us had anticipated. The defenses are a different story especially throughout the first half of the year. The Panther\'s D was just out and out better than the Saints. Carolina\'s D kept them in their games. Had Jake been playing with the Saints he wouldn\'t have had that cushion. Lastly, if not for further good fortune from the referees, Jake\'s record as a starter would likely be worse. I know of at least two games this year that Carolina was helped by questionable calls. Had those calls been made correctly, Jake is 9-7 starter. Still good, but not great.