saintz08

Let me start by apologizing to Joesam2002 .

But ignorance like this should not go unpunished .

This one is for you Billy :

New England and Carolina are going to play for the Super Bowl title in two weeks because they found quarterbacks who allowed them to save money at football's most expensive position, and spend the money they saved on the side of the ball where money goes farthest, defense.

The previous three Super Bowls have been won by Tampa Bay, New England and Baltimore, all of whom rested their reputations on their defenses. Their quarterbacks were journeyman Brad Johnson, second-year pro and former sixth-round draft choice Tom Brady, and the previously laughable Trent Dilfer.

Who will it be this year? Jake Delhomme? Would that do it? Delhomme is a $1.8 million cap hit and Manning is a $15.4 million kick in the teeth. Is that enough to finally get the message across? Probably not.

And let's not forget the Saintsfan link: http://www.jaguars.com/

Hope that answered it for you Billy ..... ;)



[Edited on 21/1/2004 by saintz08]

BillyC

08 --

Right now it seems that defenses are ahead of offenses in the NFL. I guess an arguement could be made that it\'s always been like that. However, I believe that the constant roster turnover by teams in the NFL have hurt offenses more than defenses.

Offenses need more time to get on the same page and develop consistencey. Teams seem to be moving away from relying on the vertical passing game and are taking a very conservitive approach throwing the ball. They just don\'t want to take the risk of making mistakes throwing the football.

So, you are right 08. Teams are winning by signing very average QB\'s and relying on the defense and running game. However, what happens if one of those teams run into a team that has a great defense and offense? Take the Saints for example. IF we sign a dominant linebacker and shut-down cornerback and our offense get\'s back on track, we will have a complete team. Kind of like the Rams of a few years ago, except with a better defense. Of course coaching still plays a major role.



As far as Peyton goes. He\'s just adding to his legacy of being a choke artist in big games. 2- playoff wins in 6-years a\'int going to cut it. Especially when he is most responsible for all of those playoff losses,.

BrooksMustGo

Years after the battle of Gettysburg, George Pickett was asked by the armchair general crowd how it was that the confederate army lost that battle.

Pickett\'s response, \"I think the union army had something to do with it.\"

As for the Colts last weekend, I think the Patriots had something to do with it. It\'s ludicrious to say that only Peyton has been a victim of the Patriots this season. They\'ve been making a lot of very good QBs look very bad this season. It\'s nutty to suggest that Peyton choked away that game.

It\'s not so much that the Colt lost that game as it is the Patriots won it. New England earned its Super bowl berth.

http://www.blackandgold.net/site/signature/buddysig.jpg

saintfan

I agree with you more or less BMG. The Patriot defense has been doing what they did to Peyton all year; however, in my opinion two of his INT\'s weren\'t forced by the Patriot \"D\". They were simply poorly thrown passes. I give props to the New England Defense, but I still think manning choked in that game.

[Edited on 21/1/2004 by saintfan]

BillyC

BrooksMustGo --

I can\'t believe of all people that you would post something like that. Not the one who always holds Brooks to the highest standards and critiques his every move.

Now, who exactly made Peyton throw those interceptions against the Pats? Did a ghost jump inside of Peyton and MAKE him throw those interceptions? Is the Pats defense so great that it was just too much for Peyton? When will Peyton take the next step and be able to beat a good defense when it counts?

Or, do you just not want to hold Peyton accountable? Just use some of the Brooks logic and apply it to Peyton Manning??

Sounds like you are making excuses to me BMG!!

jm

While its true that the Pats have a great D, and the Colts lost, there are no excuses!
Peton Manning said that he made bad reads and bad throws. He took responsibility.

But, when the Panthers beat the Eagles, Collingsworth and company wanted to blame the receivers and not the QB. The ultimate choker is a $100 million dollar Qb who has lost 3 consecutive NFC championship games.

seraph33

FACT:
Manning was responsible for winning more games than he was responsible for losing. He destroyed 2 teams in the playoffs, simply destroyed them. He came out bad against the Patriots, but this is the same Patriots defense that made McNair look aweful the week before. Manning is an awesome QB. Watching him audible almost every play on the field and hardly ever using a huddle is simply awesome. He had a bad game against an awesome defense. I don\'t really think it is a matter of Manning being a choke artist rather that he had an off game against the best coached team in football.

by the way

im not going to comment too much on this quote. Billy C what is the purpose of you dissing Manning. Do you really believe that Brooks is a better QB than Manning? If so I would like to see some of your famous statistics to back your argument.

Danno

I hope this doesn\'t sound racist, but...(whisper, whisper...
I think Donovan McNabb is over-rated)

BrooksMustGo

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

\"We never quite found a rhythm,\" Manning said. \"Every time you throw interceptions, that\'s the quarterback.\"

\"I made some bad throws and made some bad decisions,\" Manning said.

Actually this is the difference between Manning and Brooks: a willingness to take responsibility. Notice that Peyton did not blame:
1. His receivers
2. The officials
3. A lack of team \"professionalism\"
4. The coaching staff
5. His linemen
6. The fans

Peyton did blame:
Peyton. He blew it and shouldered it like a man.

This is why Brooks has not become a premier QB and probably why he won\'t become one. Sure he\'s athletic, sure he has a big arm, sure he has boundless \"potential\". But the cancer that is Aaron Brooks is an unwillingness to shoulder any responsibility. He won\'t ever become a leader because he won\'t ever accept any responsibility. That\'s why I detest Brooks and think he\'s a fraud.

It isn\'t just that he isn\'t very smart. It isn\'t just that he can\'t read a defense. It isn\'t that he can\'t throw a touch pass or a fade. It\'s that he\'s way too eager to point his finger at someone else over a loss. Guys who play with Brooks now know that if they lose, Brooks will blame them. If they speak out about Brooks, Haslett will cut them as a \"cancer\". Brooks can\'t shoulder responsibility for his own play, much less the play of the offense as a unit, because its never his fault. He\'s always \"owning people with his eyes\" or waiting for \"people to love me again\".

Does this sort of attitude inspire loyalty or confidence? He doesn\'t inspire the best possible effort in people because even if they give it, they still get thrown under the bus by Brooks if it doesn\'t work out.

It is the willingness to be a leader and to take responsibility and shoulder the blame and share the praise that makes a leader. Delhomme does it. Brady does it. All the really greats did it. The insurmountable character flaw with Brooks is his \"me first\" attitude. That more than anything else is what makes Brooks fatally flawed.

I won\'t go along with the \"Manning lost that game\" hypothesis as much as New England won it. What I will say is that Manning was honest about the loss and a man about taking responsibility for it.

http://www.blackandgold.net/site/signature/buddysig.jpg

BillyC

seraph33 --

The purpose of me dissing Manning. You call it dissing, I call it the TRUTH. Exactly what did I post that wasn\'t true? The Pats defense is good. So were the Bucs last year when we beat them twice. Fact of the matter is, this isn\'t the first time Peyton has choked in the playoffs. I believe this is his 4th time to CHOKE. I\'m sure of it as a matter of fact.

The problem I have wiht some folks here is that they want to lay every bad thing that happens at the feet of Brooks. Yet, the golden boy Peyton Manning has single handily knocked his team out of the palyoffs by throwing stupid interceptions and he get\'s a free pass. Give me a break. Double standards any way you want to cut it. Just imagine if Brooks would have thrown 4-ints in a game. I don\'t think we would have members coming out to say it was only because we played against a good defense. As a matter of fact Brooks got blamed this year for not throwing enougn TD\'s.





[Edited on 21/1/2004 by BillyC]