How the Saints running game can be more effective

Danno · 09-29-2011, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

like i said. it really doesnt matter whether it 4.4 or 4.2

we can argue semantics all you want. 66 runs from our running backs. kneel downs and scrambles arent considered designef run plays although they show up in stats as runs.

our end around from meachem would only increase our ypc because it was a designed run

4+ypc is more than sufficient to be considered a solid run game

So how does that compare to other teams stats if you take out kneel downs and scrambles? You can't just alter stats for one team and ignore the other 31.

My guess is it still puts us about middle of the pack in YPC. We can do better, which was the whole point of this thread.

CantonLegend · 09-29-2011, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

So how does that compare to other teams stats if you take out kneel downs and scrambles? You can't just alter stats for one team and ignore the other 31.

My guess is it still puts us about middle of the pack in YPC. We can do better, which was the whole point of this thread.

no. the point of the thread was to show how we can be more effective running the ball...not how we compare to other teams.

we can be more effective by running more because we do find success on the ground when we actually try.

trouble is our rushing attempts, not our rushing average

Danno · 09-29-2011, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

no. the point of the thread was to show how we can be more effective running the ball...not how we compare to other teams.

we can be more effective by running more because we do find success on the ground when we actually try.

trouble is our rushing attempts, not our rushing average

No, there isn't really any "trouble". We do OK running the ball, but we can do better.

More of the same still puts us middle of the pack.

You are correct that we probably should run the ball more, but when you fall behind early its difficult.

Also when the other team expects us to run, we haven't looked that good. When we're 2 scores down, its easier to pad rushing averages since your opponent is expecting pass moreso than the run.

We can certainly improve.

The Dude · 09-29-2011, 10:44 PM

Ill start *****ing that we don't run enough if we lose a game because we are not running enough. Up to now we have played from behind and win because we DONT run the ball. Having balance is a good general rule in the NFL, but it does not necessarily apply to us. We are an exception to the rule in this regard. People apply that rule to average teams or the majority of the teams in the NFL. We are not an average team, and our offense is unlike most if not all offenses in the NFL historically, so this rule does not apply to us as much as it does to other teams. Now if teams start figuring us out because we are one dimensional and Payton refuses to give the run a fair shake then I will question him. As for now any problems we have had have nothing whatsoever to do with us not running enough.

saintfan · 09-29-2011, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

No, there isn't really any "trouble". We do OK running the ball, but we can do better.

More of the same still puts us middle of the pack.

You are correct that we probably should run the ball more, but when you fall behind early its difficult.

Also when the other team expects us to run, we haven't looked that good. When we're 2 scores down, its easier to pad rushing averages since your opponent is expecting pass moreso than the run.

We can certainly improve.

And that's where the rubber meets the road. Good running teams can run it, period. We cannot. Certainly we haven't proven that we can. Saying we are a good run team and offering YPC is a joke. Saying we are a good running team except that we don't try is a joke. There is no evidence to support that except that we don't try which means what, we just poof up some proof?

If we don't base it on other teams, then do we base it on the calories in a jar of peanut butter? Good God, I swear some people really WILL argue with a stop sign.

When it's 3rd down and 3 and we line up in the "I" and everybody and their brother knows we're going to run the ball...anybody here who says he doesn't have his doubts (based on any damn thing you want to base it on) is full of it. Those doubts have more to do with our line than they do with any back on our roster.

Do we have our moments? Yep. We have some damn good running backs. Are we consistent? Hell no we are not. We can't say we're a good running team because we just somehow know we 'would' be if we were to try harder. If I had tried harder I'd be an astronaut.

Hey look everybody. I'm an astronaut.

iceshack149 · 09-30-2011, 12:09 AM

Canton, you used to post a lot here and at the time you seemed to get along with most of the posters. I'm not sure what happened but now when you post it smacks of arrogance and contempt.

Most of us are not interested in feculent behavior.

strato · 09-30-2011, 01:07 AM

Chris Ivory

AlaskaSaints · 09-30-2011, 01:31 AM

If he's healthy, we GOT a running game.

The Dude · 09-30-2011, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints

If he's healthy, we GOT a running game.

I just don't see that happening. His running style lends himself to injury. Hes got to play smarter and not rely purely on his brute force. If he can do that maybe, but I am not holding out hope. I will be thrilled if he does work out, and will consider it an awesome bonus, but I am not holding my breath.

AlaskaSaints · 09-30-2011, 02:00 AM

Don't you have some prep to do, The Dude?!

LOL ;-P

09-29-2011, 09:13 PM	#31
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Originally Posted by CantonLegend like i said. it really doesnt matter whether it 4.4 or 4.2 we can argue semantics all you want. 66 runs from our running backs. kneel downs and scrambles arent considered designef run plays although they show up in stats as runs. our end around from meachem would only increase our ypc because it was a designed run 4+ypc is more than sufficient to be considered a solid run game So how does that compare to other teams stats if you take out kneel downs and scrambles? You can't just alter stats for one team and ignore the other 31. My guess is it still puts us about middle of the pack in YPC. We can do better, which was the whole point of this thread.

09-29-2011, 09:15 PM	#32
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by Danno So how does that compare to other teams stats if you take out kneel downs and scrambles? You can't just alter stats for one team and ignore the other 31. My guess is it still puts us about middle of the pack in YPC. We can do better, which was the whole point of this thread. no. the point of the thread was to show how we can be more effective running the ball...not how we compare to other teams. we can be more effective by running more because we do find success on the ground when we actually try. trouble is our rushing attempts, not our rushing average

09-29-2011, 09:21 PM	#33
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Originally Posted by CantonLegend no. the point of the thread was to show how we can be more effective running the ball...not how we compare to other teams. we can be more effective by running more because we do find success on the ground when we actually try. trouble is our rushing attempts, not our rushing average No, there isn't really any "trouble". We do OK running the ball, but we can do better. More of the same still puts us middle of the pack. You are correct that we probably should run the ball more, but when you fall behind early its difficult. Also when the other team expects us to run, we haven't looked that good. When we're 2 scores down, its easier to pad rushing averages since your opponent is expecting pass moreso than the run. We can certainly improve.

09-29-2011, 10:44 PM	#34
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Ill start *****ing that we don't run enough if we lose a game because we are not running enough. Up to now we have played from behind and win because we DONT run the ball. Having balance is a good general rule in the NFL, but it does not necessarily apply to us. We are an exception to the rule in this regard. People apply that rule to average teams or the majority of the teams in the NFL. We are not an average team, and our offense is unlike most if not all offenses in the NFL historically, so this rule does not apply to us as much as it does to other teams. Now if teams start figuring us out because we are one dimensional and Payton refuses to give the run a fair shake then I will question him. As for now any problems we have had have nothing whatsoever to do with us not running enough.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

09-29-2011, 11:02 PM	#35
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by Danno No, there isn't really any "trouble". We do OK running the ball, but we can do better. More of the same still puts us middle of the pack. You are correct that we probably should run the ball more, but when you fall behind early its difficult. Also when the other team expects us to run, we haven't looked that good. When we're 2 scores down, its easier to pad rushing averages since your opponent is expecting pass moreso than the run. We can certainly improve. And that's where the rubber meets the road. Good running teams can run it, period. We cannot. Certainly we haven't proven that we can. Saying we are a good run team and offering YPC is a joke. Saying we are a good running team except that we don't try is a joke. There is no evidence to support that except that we don't try which means what, we just poof up some proof? If we don't base it on other teams, then do we base it on the calories in a jar of peanut butter? Good God, I swear some people really WILL argue with a stop sign. When it's 3rd down and 3 and we line up in the "I" and everybody and their brother knows we're going to run the ball...anybody here who says he doesn't have his doubts (based on any damn thing you want to base it on) is full of it. Those doubts have more to do with our line than they do with any back on our roster. Do we have our moments? Yep. We have some damn good running backs. Are we consistent? Hell no we are not. We can't say we're a good running team because we just somehow know we 'would' be if we were to try harder. If I had tried harder I'd be an astronaut. Hey look everybody. I'm an astronaut. Danno likes this.
	C'mon Man...

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09-30-2011, 12:09 AM	#36
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,258 Blog Entries: 1	Canton, you used to post a lot here and at the time you seemed to get along with most of the posters. I'm not sure what happened but now when you post it smacks of arrogance and contempt. Most of us are not interested in feculent behavior. strato likes this.

09-30-2011, 01:07 AM	#37
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Chris Ivory saintfan, AlaskaSaints and halloween 65 like this.

09-30-2011, 01:31 AM	#38
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	If he's healthy, we GOT a running game.

09-30-2011, 01:49 AM	#39
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints If he's healthy, we GOT a running game. I just don't see that happening. His running style lends himself to injury. Hes got to play smarter and not rely purely on his brute force. If he can do that maybe, but I am not holding out hope. I will be thrilled if he does work out, and will consider it an awesome bonus, but I am not holding my breath.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

09-30-2011, 02:00 AM	#40
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	Don't you have some prep to do, The Dude?! LOL ;-P