Our D: It is what it is

44Champs · 10-12-2011, 10:09 AM

After 5 games into the season, I'm starting to accept the fact that our Defense is "good" - not "great". I had so many high expectations before the season started with the addition of Franklin, Rogers, and Jordan (who's been very good) - the promotion of Casillas to starter, and the continued development of Jenkins at FS. I thought our D would be much better than they've been. I'm starting to wonder whether or not Gregg Williams is over-rated, although at this point, I wouldn't trade him for any other DC out there because of the chemistry and intensity that he brings to the team. One thing that stands out to me is that G3 seems more focused on getting sacks rather than creating turnovers. Honestly, it's great to get those sacks, but what good is it if you can't stop the other team on 3rd and long? The intensity and nastiness that he supposedly brings to the sideline doesn't seem to be translating on the field.

Here are our rankings through week 5:

Yds allowed - 16th
Pass - 16th
Rush - 15th
Sacks - 6th
TD's - 24th
INT's- 21st

Euphoria · 10-12-2011, 10:31 AM

I am bashing them pretty hard myself.

I am seriously hoping that what happens in the NFL happens to us this year and that is you want your D to come together and peak late in the season and into the playoffs. Much like our SB year and the Giants.

My problem I am having is that the SB year there were flashes on D of what they were capable of and what to expect if it came together and sure enough!

So far this year all I am seeing is the flashes of the playoff game with Seattle.

strato · 10-12-2011, 10:37 AM

I think a lot of it is the personnel we have on the field ..lets say we had the Jets secondary..the Lions D line..and the Niners LBs...then what would we be like?..I think G.W would have the number 1 ranked D..

JMHO

darstep · 10-12-2011, 11:06 AM

There's no pressure without bringing the house.
Tackling leaves a lot to be said and done.
Even the sack stat is scued in my view...Harper has half of them.
I haven't seen enough games from start to finish to match to the numbers,
but I still see our DB's high on the list of leading tacklers every week,
and O-lineman low on the list every week.
The one game we lost was the one where we just couldn't outscore our opponent.
Every week is new, so I'll stay hopeful and look for fundamental improvements.

Rugby Saint II · 10-12-2011, 11:21 AM

GW is scheming with less than average talent.....it ain't his fault we can't tackle.(is it?)

73Saint · 10-12-2011, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

GW is scheming with less than average talent.....it ain't his fault we can't tackle.(is it?)

I'm not sure I agree with this. We made big upgrades in the middle with Rogers and Franklin. Smith is in the best shape we've seen him in in a while, our secondary has only improved, with Greer/Porter healthy and P-Rob/Jenkins developing well. Only real area we didn't upgrade was at LB.

So, is it really that GW is working w/ less than average talent? Maybe so, but sometimes I think we out-think ourselves. And, that's coaching.

Get back to basics; blocking and tackling. Also, what about the 1st year that we had GW? Remember all the hooplah about him changing the culture in practice? Everyone running full-speed to the balls on the ground? I haven't heard too much about that happening anymore. Not saying it isn't, but it makes you wonder....

Euphoria · 10-12-2011, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

GW is scheming with less than average talent.....it ain't his fault we can't tackle.(is it?)

Yes it is VERY much his fault. You can scheme and plan all you want but unless you instill the very basics of playing Defense then it is all for NOT.

One would think that once you got to the pro level you'll be well verse in all your fundamentals but it isn't true, you have to continue to develop and hone your skills.

papz · 10-12-2011, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

GW is scheming with less than average talent.....it ain't his fault we can't tackle.(is it?)

I'd like to disagree with this also. There's plenty of talent on that front 7 and in our secondary. We just aren't performing. Both coaching and players are to blame... there's plenty to go around. It's a team effort.

Budsdrinker · 10-12-2011, 11:39 AM

The biggest difference is turnovers! In 09 we had 26 picks with 5 returned for TD. Sharper had 9 picks alone and we caught just about everything that hit our hands. Right now we have 3 and I see at least 2 drop picks every game. If I were GW I would make every DB spend an hour a day catching balls off the jugg!

73Saint · 10-12-2011, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

The biggest difference is turnovers! In 09 we had 26 picks with 5 returned for TD. Sharper had 9 picks alone and we caught just about everything that hit our hands. Right now we have 3 and I see at least 2 drop picks every game. If I were GW I would make every DB spend an hour a day catching balls off the jugg!

You make a good point. I was mentioning this very thing to a friend Sunday right before the game. The plus/minus piece is huge, and we have to figure out a way to stop the "Missed Opportunities". Right off the bat, P-Rob makes a nice stab for a pick...and that's great. But then, later in the game, Shanle drops one right in the friggin bread basket, and a few plays later Carolina scores...and that sucks!

We have to try and minimize the missed opps, and take advantage of them when they come our way.

10-12-2011, 10:09 AM	#1
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Our D: It is what it is After 5 games into the season, I'm starting to accept the fact that our Defense is "good" - not "great". I had so many high expectations before the season started with the addition of Franklin, Rogers, and Jordan (who's been very good) - the promotion of Casillas to starter, and the continued development of Jenkins at FS. I thought our D would be much better than they've been. I'm starting to wonder whether or not Gregg Williams is over-rated, although at this point, I wouldn't trade him for any other DC out there because of the chemistry and intensity that he brings to the team. One thing that stands out to me is that G3 seems more focused on getting sacks rather than creating turnovers. Honestly, it's great to get those sacks, but what good is it if you can't stop the other team on 3rd and long? The intensity and nastiness that he supposedly brings to the sideline doesn't seem to be translating on the field. Here are our rankings through week 5: Yds allowed - 16th Pass - 16th Rush - 15th Sacks - 6th TD's - 24th INT's- 21st lumm0x and strato like this.
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

10-12-2011, 10:31 AM	#2
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	I am bashing them pretty hard myself. I am seriously hoping that what happens in the NFL happens to us this year and that is you want your D to come together and peak late in the season and into the playoffs. Much like our SB year and the Giants. My problem I am having is that the SB year there were flashes on D of what they were capable of and what to expect if it came together and sure enough! So far this year all I am seeing is the flashes of the playoff game with Seattle. saintfan, darstep and 44Champs like this.

10-12-2011, 10:37 AM	#3
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	I think a lot of it is the personnel we have on the field ..lets say we had the Jets secondary..the Lions D line..and the Niners LBs...then what would we be like?..I think G.W would have the number 1 ranked D.. JMHO
	Last edited by strato; 10-12-2011 at 11:09 AM..

10-12-2011, 11:06 AM	#4
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	There's no pressure without bringing the house. Tackling leaves a lot to be said and done. Even the sack stat is scued in my view...Harper has half of them. I haven't seen enough games from start to finish to match to the numbers, but I still see our DB's high on the list of leading tacklers every week, and O-lineman low on the list every week. The one game we lost was the one where we just couldn't outscore our opponent. Every week is new, so I'll stay hopeful and look for fundamental improvements. lumm0x likes this.
	SaintSince67

10-12-2011, 11:21 AM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,117	GW is scheming with less than average talent.....it ain't his fault we can't tackle.(is it?) strato likes this.

10-12-2011, 11:58 AM	#6
73Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NOLA Posts: 2,336	Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II GW is scheming with less than average talent.....it ain't his fault we can't tackle.(is it?) I'm not sure I agree with this. We made big upgrades in the middle with Rogers and Franklin. Smith is in the best shape we've seen him in in a while, our secondary has only improved, with Greer/Porter healthy and P-Rob/Jenkins developing well. Only real area we didn't upgrade was at LB. So, is it really that GW is working w/ less than average talent? Maybe so, but sometimes I think we out-think ourselves. And, that's coaching. Get back to basics; blocking and tackling. Also, what about the 1st year that we had GW? Remember all the hooplah about him changing the culture in practice? Everyone running full-speed to the balls on the ground? I haven't heard too much about that happening anymore. Not saying it isn't, but it makes you wonder....

10-12-2011, 12:20 PM	#7
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II GW is scheming with less than average talent.....it ain't his fault we can't tackle.(is it?) Yes it is VERY much his fault. You can scheme and plan all you want but unless you instill the very basics of playing Defense then it is all for NOT. One would think that once you got to the pro level you'll be well verse in all your fundamentals but it isn't true, you have to continue to develop and hone your skills.

10-12-2011, 12:51 PM	#8
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,768	Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II GW is scheming with less than average talent.....it ain't his fault we can't tackle.(is it?) I'd like to disagree with this also. There's plenty of talent on that front 7 and in our secondary. We just aren't performing. Both coaching and players are to blame... there's plenty to go around. It's a team effort.

10-12-2011, 11:39 AM	#9
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	The biggest difference is turnovers! In 09 we had 26 picks with 5 returned for TD. Sharper had 9 picks alone and we caught just about everything that hit our hands. Right now we have 3 and I see at least 2 drop picks every game. If I were GW I would make every DB spend an hour a day catching balls off the jugg! xan and 44Champs like this.

10-12-2011, 12:02 PM	#10
73Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NOLA Posts: 2,336	Originally Posted by Budsdrinker The biggest difference is turnovers! In 09 we had 26 picks with 5 returned for TD. Sharper had 9 picks alone and we caught just about everything that hit our hands. Right now we have 3 and I see at least 2 drop picks every game. If I were GW I would make every DB spend an hour a day catching balls off the jugg! You make a good point. I was mentioning this very thing to a friend Sunday right before the game. The plus/minus piece is huge, and we have to figure out a way to stop the "Missed Opportunities". Right off the bat, P-Rob makes a nice stab for a pick...and that's great. But then, later in the game, Shanle drops one right in the friggin bread basket, and a few plays later Carolina scores...and that sucks! We have to try and minimize the missed opps, and take advantage of them when they come our way. darstep likes this.

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