Brees being sacked more this year than any other a Saint

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

I was too wondering about the grading low statement in regards to DLP, but then you made the following clarification...

While I'm not saying that pff.com ratings don't have any merit, you can't possibly know how the Saints coaching staff are rating DLP, that is if you are not part of that staff.

I personally haven't seen a single interview of SP where he has said that DLP has been grading low or that his performances have been below what is expected of him, so based on that I'm very doubtful about your original statement.

the rules for pff.com grades are very simple. they grade players by their matchups of what went on during the play. if they cant clearly tell whats supposed to happen on that play they dont grade it

Grading | ProFootballFocus.com

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either?

of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

saintfan · 10-13-2011, 04:58 PM

I think if we were to take some stats of this thread nobody would be surprised.

FinSaint · 10-13-2011, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

the rules for pff.com grades are very simple. they grade players by their matchups of what went on during the play. if they cant clearly tell whats supposed to happen on that play they dont grade it

Grading | ProFootballFocus.com

Yes, but that doesn't mean that the Saints' staff are using those same guidelines to rate their players. For all we know they may have a completely different way of rating players' performances.

I'm not saying they do, but if there's no proof for or against, I'd prefer to think those rating are not applicable.

saintfan · 10-13-2011, 05:03 PM

Canton, here's a life lesson for you. It is clear to me that you do not already know this. With all sincerity I bequeath to you the following:

Statistics are:
A way to organize data. Period. That is all. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Statistics are not:
The end all by which one proves or disproves a thing. This is because, as any inking of research on your part will reveal, it isn't the data, but rather it is how you perceive the data.

Now you either get that or you don't.

Let me ask you a question: Do you believe in God? Whether yes or no be your answer, prove your stance statistically.

You can't. Your argument is bunk. Here endeth the lesson.

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by strato

No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship?

i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02

FinSaint · 10-13-2011, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons.

Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved.

What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Canton, here's a life lesson for you. It is clear to me that you do not already know this. With all sincerity I bequeath to you the following:

Statistics are:
A way to organize data. Period. That is all. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Statistics are not:
The end all by which one proves or disproves a thing. This is because, as any inking of research on your part will reveal, it isn't the data, but rather it is how you perceive the data.

Now you either get that or you don't.

Let me ask you a question: Do you believe in God? Whether yes or no be your answer, prove your stance statistically.

You can't. Your argument is bunk. Here endeth the lesson.

fwiw im agnostic. i dont know if god is real and i wouldnt even try to think one way or another. the point is that you cant prove ur stance whether he is real or not without stats

stats are facts that i can use to back up my opinion

what kind of facts are you using to back up ur opinions?

saintfan · 10-13-2011, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons.

Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved.

What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.

Any reasonable person not on medication (and some that are) would easily recognize this. The problem is there exists among us some extremely unreasonable people.

strato · 10-13-2011, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02

Well congrats on that...now with all that knowledge you should know how many times Drew has to avoid the rush because of pressure...if you are really watching..and that we have trouble picking up short yardage..

Now i know we are great in the screen game with our O-Lineman in space..but at protecting Drew a lot has to do with him stepping up and feeling the pressure...that my friend is obvious..just be glad we don't have a statue for a QB or it would be a lot worse..

10-13-2011, 04:54 PM	#41
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by FinSaint I was too wondering about the grading low statement in regards to DLP, but then you made the following clarification... While I'm not saying that pff.com ratings don't have any merit, you can't possibly know how the Saints coaching staff are rating DLP, that is if you are not part of that staff. I personally haven't seen a single interview of SP where he has said that DLP has been grading low or that his performances have been below what is expected of him, so based on that I'm very doubtful about your original statement. the rules for pff.com grades are very simple. they grade players by their matchups of what went on during the play. if they cant clearly tell whats supposed to happen on that play they dont grade it Grading \| ProFootballFocus.com

10-13-2011, 04:58 PM	#42
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by FinSaint But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either? of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

10-13-2011, 04:58 PM	#44
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Originally Posted by CantonLegend the rules for pff.com grades are very simple. they grade players by their matchups of what went on during the play. if they cant clearly tell whats supposed to happen on that play they dont grade it Grading \| ProFootballFocus.com Yes, but that doesn't mean that the Saints' staff are using those same guidelines to rate their players. For all we know they may have a completely different way of rating players' performances. I'm not saying they do, but if there's no proof for or against, I'd prefer to think those rating are not applicable.

10-13-2011, 05:03 PM	#45
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Canton, here's a life lesson for you. It is clear to me that you do not already know this. With all sincerity I bequeath to you the following: Statistics are: A way to organize data. Period. That is all. Nothing more. Nothing less. Statistics are not: The end all by which one proves or disproves a thing. This is because, as any inking of research on your part will reveal, it isn't the data, but rather it is how you perceive the data. Now you either get that or you don't. Let me ask you a question: Do you believe in God? Whether yes or no be your answer, prove your stance statistically. You can't. Your argument is bunk. Here endeth the lesson.
	C'mon Man...

10-13-2011, 05:06 PM	#46
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by strato No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship? i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02

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10-13-2011, 05:08 PM	#47
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Originally Posted by CantonLegend of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons. Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved. What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

10-13-2011, 05:09 PM	#48
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by saintfan Canton, here's a life lesson for you. It is clear to me that you do not already know this. With all sincerity I bequeath to you the following: Statistics are: A way to organize data. Period. That is all. Nothing more. Nothing less. Statistics are not: The end all by which one proves or disproves a thing. This is because, as any inking of research on your part will reveal, it isn't the data, but rather it is how you perceive the data. Now you either get that or you don't. Let me ask you a question: Do you believe in God? Whether yes or no be your answer, prove your stance statistically. You can't. Your argument is bunk. Here endeth the lesson. fwiw im agnostic. i dont know if god is real and i wouldnt even try to think one way or another. the point is that you cant prove ur stance whether he is real or not without stats stats are facts that i can use to back up my opinion what kind of facts are you using to back up ur opinions?

10-13-2011, 05:10 PM	#49
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by FinSaint I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons. Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved. What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa. Any reasonable person not on medication (and some that are) would easily recognize this. The problem is there exists among us some extremely unreasonable people.

10-13-2011, 05:14 PM	#50
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Originally Posted by CantonLegend i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02 Well congrats on that...now with all that knowledge you should know how many times Drew has to avoid the rush because of pressure...if you are really watching..and that we have trouble picking up short yardage.. Now i know we are great in the screen game with our O-Lineman in space..but at protecting Drew a lot has to do with him stepping up and feeling the pressure...that my friend is obvious..just be glad we don't have a statue for a QB or it would be a lot worse..

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