Brees being sacked more this year than any other a Saint

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

And even when your all mighty numbers show us at the 14th best run team in the league you insist our line is a solid run-blocking unit. Uh, riiiiight...

Even when the first stat you point to is YPC, and even after several people explain to you how that don't mean jack. Uh, riiiiight...

No sir. True all the time.

Maybe the line makes Drew look better? Seriously? Okay...grab your stats and make that point. This I have GOT to hear...

Yes. It is because you aren't enlightened enough to understand when they are valuable and when they aren't telling you the whole story. Lots of people fall into that trap.

Wow. Why yes we DO watch the games. You should try it. Get your head out of the stats sheet and pay attention.

please prove that drew makes our line look better but our line doesnt make drew look better

thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. you cant prove either one with or without stats

strato · 10-13-2011, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

please prove that drew makes our line look better but our line doesnt make drew look better

thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. you cant prove either one with or without stats

No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship?

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by strato

No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship?

i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02

strato · 10-13-2011, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02

Well congrats on that...now with all that knowledge you should know how many times Drew has to avoid the rush because of pressure...if you are really watching..and that we have trouble picking up short yardage..

Now i know we are great in the screen game with our O-Lineman in space..but at protecting Drew a lot has to do with him stepping up and feeling the pressure...that my friend is obvious..just be glad we don't have a statue for a QB or it would be a lot worse..

FinSaint · 10-13-2011, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

you cant prove either one with or without stats

But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either?

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either?

of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

FinSaint · 10-13-2011, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons.

Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved.

What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.

saintfan · 10-13-2011, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons.

Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved.

What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.

Any reasonable person not on medication (and some that are) would easily recognize this. The problem is there exists among us some extremely unreasonable people.

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons.

Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved.

What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.

what i have been doing is referring to a site that does have access to those kinds of stats. a site that recognizes the degree of difficulty in grading a players performance when they dont know the players responsibility.

however, understanding that its an imperfect science that they are using on every player to the same extent, you realize that a lot of the uncontrolled variables can be taken out

you guys can throw out all the grades if you want but then you turn it into a he said/she said type argument with no facts to back up anything...just uneducated opinions and testosterone

why is it more believable that drew makes our line look better than vice-versa? because hes an excellent QB? we have an excellent line too but because they dont get recorded stats and touchdowns they cant possibly be capable of keeping drew upright?

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 04:28 PM

heres a question...

is nicks or jahri evans a better guard than drew is a QB?

how do you measure that? by the competion around the league at the time? how many guards rank above nicks and evans? how many QBs rank above brees?

10-13-2011, 03:44 PM	#1
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by saintfan And even when your all mighty numbers show us at the 14th best run team in the league you insist our line is a solid run-blocking unit. Uh, riiiiight... Even when the first stat you point to is YPC, and even after several people explain to you how that don't mean jack. Uh, riiiiight... No sir. True all the time. Maybe the line makes Drew look better? Seriously? Okay...grab your stats and make that point. This I have GOT to hear... Yes. It is because you aren't enlightened enough to understand when they are valuable and when they aren't telling you the whole story. Lots of people fall into that trap. Wow. Why yes we DO watch the games. You should try it. Get your head out of the stats sheet and pay attention. please prove that drew makes our line look better but our line doesnt make drew look better thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. you cant prove either one with or without stats

10-13-2011, 03:51 PM	#2
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Originally Posted by CantonLegend please prove that drew makes our line look better but our line doesnt make drew look better thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. you cant prove either one with or without stats No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship?

10-13-2011, 04:06 PM	#3
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by strato No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship? i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02

10-13-2011, 04:14 PM	#4
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Originally Posted by CantonLegend i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02 Well congrats on that...now with all that knowledge you should know how many times Drew has to avoid the rush because of pressure...if you are really watching..and that we have trouble picking up short yardage.. Now i know we are great in the screen game with our O-Lineman in space..but at protecting Drew a lot has to do with him stepping up and feeling the pressure...that my friend is obvious..just be glad we don't have a statue for a QB or it would be a lot worse..

10-13-2011, 03:52 PM	#5
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Originally Posted by CantonLegend you cant prove either one with or without stats But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either?

10-13-2011, 03:58 PM	#6
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by FinSaint But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either? of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

10-13-2011, 04:08 PM	#7
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Originally Posted by CantonLegend of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons. Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved. What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

10-13-2011, 04:10 PM	#8
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by FinSaint I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons. Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved. What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa. Any reasonable person not on medication (and some that are) would easily recognize this. The problem is there exists among us some extremely unreasonable people.

10-13-2011, 04:23 PM	#9
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by FinSaint I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons. Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved. What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa. what i have been doing is referring to a site that does have access to those kinds of stats. a site that recognizes the degree of difficulty in grading a players performance when they dont know the players responsibility. however, understanding that its an imperfect science that they are using on every player to the same extent, you realize that a lot of the uncontrolled variables can be taken out you guys can throw out all the grades if you want but then you turn it into a he said/she said type argument with no facts to back up anything...just uneducated opinions and testosterone why is it more believable that drew makes our line look better than vice-versa? because hes an excellent QB? we have an excellent line too but because they dont get recorded stats and touchdowns they cant possibly be capable of keeping drew upright?
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

10-13-2011, 04:28 PM	#10
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	heres a question... is nicks or jahri evans a better guard than drew is a QB? how do you measure that? by the competion around the league at the time? how many guards rank above nicks and evans? how many QBs rank above brees?

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