Brees being sacked more this year than any other a Saint

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either?

of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

FinSaint · 10-13-2011, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons.

Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved.

What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.

saintfan · 10-13-2011, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons.

Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved.

What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.

Any reasonable person not on medication (and some that are) would easily recognize this. The problem is there exists among us some extremely unreasonable people.

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons.

Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved.

What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.

what i have been doing is referring to a site that does have access to those kinds of stats. a site that recognizes the degree of difficulty in grading a players performance when they dont know the players responsibility.

however, understanding that its an imperfect science that they are using on every player to the same extent, you realize that a lot of the uncontrolled variables can be taken out

you guys can throw out all the grades if you want but then you turn it into a he said/she said type argument with no facts to back up anything...just uneducated opinions and testosterone

why is it more believable that drew makes our line look better than vice-versa? because hes an excellent QB? we have an excellent line too but because they dont get recorded stats and touchdowns they cant possibly be capable of keeping drew upright?

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 04:28 PM

heres a question...

is nicks or jahri evans a better guard than drew is a QB?

how do you measure that? by the competion around the league at the time? how many guards rank above nicks and evans? how many QBs rank above brees?

strato · 10-13-2011, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

heres a question...

is nicks or jahri evans a better guard than drew is a QB?

how do you measure that? by the competion around the league at the time? how many guards rank above nicks and evans? how many QBs rank above brees?

Ok fair enough...let me ask you one..which one would you rather have on your team?

FinSaint · 10-13-2011, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

what i have been doing is referring to a site that does have access to those kinds of stats. a site that recognizes the degree of difficulty in grading a players performance when they dont know the players responsibility.

I don't think you fully understood the point I was making, because I sincerely doubt that such a site exists. What I tried to convey was that we would have to have a method specific to this particular hypothesis, by which we would have to have a way of comparing all of the variables (players' performances) in a given setting - assigning dependent and independent variables in order to prove or disprove our original hypothesis. This would mean that we would have to be able to have the players play in various different combinations in otherwise similar circumstances, which would be very difficult to put it mildly.

10-13-2011, 03:58 PM	#1
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by FinSaint But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either? of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

10-13-2011, 04:08 PM	#2
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Originally Posted by CantonLegend of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons. Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved. What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

10-13-2011, 04:10 PM	#3
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by FinSaint I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons. Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved. What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa. Any reasonable person not on medication (and some that are) would easily recognize this. The problem is there exists among us some extremely unreasonable people.

10-13-2011, 04:23 PM	#4
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by FinSaint I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons. Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved. What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa. what i have been doing is referring to a site that does have access to those kinds of stats. a site that recognizes the degree of difficulty in grading a players performance when they dont know the players responsibility. however, understanding that its an imperfect science that they are using on every player to the same extent, you realize that a lot of the uncontrolled variables can be taken out you guys can throw out all the grades if you want but then you turn it into a he said/she said type argument with no facts to back up anything...just uneducated opinions and testosterone why is it more believable that drew makes our line look better than vice-versa? because hes an excellent QB? we have an excellent line too but because they dont get recorded stats and touchdowns they cant possibly be capable of keeping drew upright?
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

10-13-2011, 04:45 PM	#6
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Originally Posted by CantonLegend heres a question... is nicks or jahri evans a better guard than drew is a QB? how do you measure that? by the competion around the league at the time? how many guards rank above nicks and evans? how many QBs rank above brees? Ok fair enough...let me ask you one..which one would you rather have on your team?

10-13-2011, 04:28 PM	#5
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	heres a question... is nicks or jahri evans a better guard than drew is a QB? how do you measure that? by the competion around the league at the time? how many guards rank above nicks and evans? how many QBs rank above brees?

10-13-2011, 04:33 PM	#7
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Originally Posted by CantonLegend what i have been doing is referring to a site that does have access to those kinds of stats. a site that recognizes the degree of difficulty in grading a players performance when they dont know the players responsibility. I don't think you fully understood the point I was making, because I sincerely doubt that such a site exists. What I tried to convey was that we would have to have a method specific to this particular hypothesis, by which we would have to have a way of comparing all of the variables (players' performances) in a given setting - assigning dependent and independent variables in order to prove or disprove our original hypothesis. This would mean that we would have to be able to have the players play in various different combinations in otherwise similar circumstances, which would be very difficult to put it mildly.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: https://blackandgold.com/saints/37212-brees-being-sacked-more-year-than-any-other-saint.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
Brees being sacked more this year than any other a Saint	This thread	Refback	10-12-2011 08:03 PM	3