Wasted youth

BlackandBlue · 02-09-2004, 09:39 AM

First, there\'s no \"right to work\".

Good argument. You have supported your case well with hard facts. I raise the white flag.
But you are right. They aren\'t denying him employment. What they are doing is basically trying to prevent him from even getting to the NFL equivalent of what would be the interview process, ie, the draft, where these kids are poked and prodded in the weeks leading up, interview after interview with various teams, tests, etc, which some would consider to be alot worse.

ScottyRo · 02-09-2004, 10:42 AM

Though I am against the NFL\'s rule being struck down, after thinking it over, I don\'t see a problem with allowing kids like Clarrett to declare themselves eligible for the draft.

First, if it\'s true that Clarrett and those like him are not ready, then we\'ll find out for sure when they get drafted. After a couple years of drafting freshmen and sophs, the owners will have a better idea of whether it is a good thing to do from the teams\' perspective. They understand that there is a greater risk inherit in drafting someone as young as Clarrett. I say let them take that risk if they feel it is justified.

Second, players like Fitzgerald have more to lose than Clarrett, but it is a big risk for all. When a college player declares himself eligible for the NFL draft, that player is automatically ineleigible to play in the NCAA. So, a player like Fitzgerald can try to capitalize on his good season, but has to understand that the NFL is going to see him as higher risk than if he were a junior or senior and that he cannot go back to college if he doesn\'t get drafted as high as he thought he would.

What gets to me about the whole Clarrett issue is that he brought it upon himself and now he\'s forcing an organization to change its rules because he couldn\'t comply with NCAA rules. Then to top it off, his PR reps played the race card as a factor...nevermind that he did break the rules! It all combined to set me against him and his position from the get go.

codename47 · 02-09-2004, 03:21 PM

First, there\'s no \"right to work\".

Good argument. You have supported your case well with hard facts. I raise the white flag.
But you are right. They aren\'t denying him employment. What they are doing is basically trying to prevent him from even getting to the NFL equivalent of what would be the interview process, ie, the draft, where these kids are poked and prodded in the weeks leading up, interview after interview with various teams, tests, etc, which some would consider to be alot worse.

Leave sarcasm to the professionals...

Want \"hard facts\"? It\'s called the US Constitution. Go read it and tell me where it says you have the \"right to work\".

Also, if you want to give the draft an equivalent in the real world, it would be a job offer, not an interview process. The interview process would be the Bowls, the combine, but NOT the draft. No one drafts a player and then checks on his 40 times and Wonderlic.

And, that he\'s not elegible for the draft, does not mean that he cannot go to the combine, or hold private workouts for teams, nor it means that he couls not get picked up by a team as a free agent.

The quick answer for the NFL would be, make it an academic requirement, i.e., a prosepective employee (if you want to play the real world game) has to have at least 3 years of college education. Done deal.

BlackandBlue · 02-09-2004, 04:24 PM

That wasn\'t sarcasm. I really do raise the white flag. There are three things that I will never get into an argument over- politics, religion, and law. They all give me tired head, and is not worth going through the frustration.
I believe that it isn\'t my place to tell this kid that he is or isn\'t ready to play in the NFL. That is for him to decide, and if anyone is foolish enough to use a 1st day pick on this guy, allow me to sit back and laugh at the team that does it. I could be negative, which is my initial reaction because of my love for college football, and say, \"hell no\", but if I put my own prejudices aside, I really can\'t see any reason not to let this guy in. If I was held accountable for everything I did in college, in my professional life, I\'d be holding a sign on your local street corner that says, \"I\'m not gonna lie- I need some beer!\"

codename47 · 02-09-2004, 09:06 PM

That wasn\'t sarcasm. I really do raise the white flag. There are three things that I will never get into an argument over- politics, religion, and law. They all give me tired head, and is not worth going through the frustration.
I believe that it isn\'t my place to tell this kid that he is or isn\'t ready to play in the NFL. That is for him to decide, and if anyone is foolish enough to use a 1st day pick on this guy, allow me to sit back and laugh at the team that does it. I could be negative, which is my initial reaction because of my love for college football, and say, \"hell no\", but if I put my own prejudices aside, I really can\'t see any reason not to let this guy in. If I was held accountable for everything I did in college, in my professional life, I\'d be holding a sign on your local street corner that says, \"I\'m not gonna lie- I need some beer!\"

My bad, then... habits from my old board.
Here\'s your beer...

pakowitz · 02-11-2004, 10:15 PM

i hate the ruling against the NFL, as most people have already stated, guys in the nfl have mature bodies and coming right out of high school most kids havent matured physically nor mentally, this ruling is a disgrace to our country and our new favorite pastime..... the NFL

BrooksMustGo · 02-11-2004, 11:57 PM

Here are 2 rather common sense legal ideas that undermine Clarett\'s case.

1. How it is reasonable to allow a kid to go out for the NFL when he isn\'t of legal age to consume alchohol?

2. How is it reasonable to allow a kid to go out for the NFL when he isn\'t of legal age to enter a binding contract?

These are both public policy arguments, but I think there are all sorts of arguments for not allowing young-uns to play in the NFL that we uphold all the time in other areas.

saintfan · 02-12-2004, 09:42 AM

Somebody has been sneakin\' in to Loyola again. :P

NellyFord · 02-12-2004, 01:01 PM

Yeah well, Rainbows are pretty in the middle of the night, you figure that out and you figure out what\'s wrong with the world today. No, I\'m not on drugs its just the after effects of watching the saints for so many years.

Okay, let\'s see everyone is saying how these young guys shouldnt be going pro, and even most of the nfl teams and execs are agreeing but we\'ll find out just how strongly they feel about that when the draft comes around, if Clarett is drafted higher than the 4th or 5th round I\'ll be highly dissappointed. GM\'s around the league have the responsibility to make their teams better and since they\'re the paid experts we\'ll see just what it is they do with this situation, Fitzgerald maybe but even he is not that great of a WR.

The only thing I like about this ruiling is that I dont have to keep hearing about Eli Manning everyday, I\'m sick of him and his brother. Neither were worth a flip in high school, college, and Peyton is going to be a Dan Marino for his career. All the pretty numbers in the world but cant win the big games, he\'s a choke artist whenever he plays a good defense.

[Edited on 12/2/2004 by NellyFord]

SFinAustin · 02-12-2004, 03:55 PM

This ruling has nothing to do with Clarett. It has to do with the legality of keeping a \"man\" from working.

At 18, you can go to war. Why can\'t you play football?

02-09-2004, 09:39 AM	#11
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Wasted youth First, there\'s no \"right to work\". Good argument. You have supported your case well with hard facts. I raise the white flag. But you are right. They aren\'t denying him employment. What they are doing is basically trying to prevent him from even getting to the NFL equivalent of what would be the interview process, ie, the draft, where these kids are poked and prodded in the weeks leading up, interview after interview with various teams, tests, etc, which some would consider to be alot worse.

02-09-2004, 10:42 AM	#12
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Wasted youth Though I am against the NFL\'s rule being struck down, after thinking it over, I don\'t see a problem with allowing kids like Clarrett to declare themselves eligible for the draft. First, if it\'s true that Clarrett and those like him are not ready, then we\'ll find out for sure when they get drafted. After a couple years of drafting freshmen and sophs, the owners will have a better idea of whether it is a good thing to do from the teams\' perspective. They understand that there is a greater risk inherit in drafting someone as young as Clarrett. I say let them take that risk if they feel it is justified. Second, players like Fitzgerald have more to lose than Clarrett, but it is a big risk for all. When a college player declares himself eligible for the NFL draft, that player is automatically ineleigible to play in the NCAA. So, a player like Fitzgerald can try to capitalize on his good season, but has to understand that the NFL is going to see him as higher risk than if he were a junior or senior and that he cannot go back to college if he doesn\'t get drafted as high as he thought he would. What gets to me about the whole Clarrett issue is that he brought it upon himself and now he\'s forcing an organization to change its rules because he couldn\'t comply with NCAA rules. Then to top it off, his PR reps played the race card as a factor...nevermind that he did break the rules! It all combined to set me against him and his position from the get go.

02-09-2004, 03:21 PM	#13
codename47 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 25	Wasted youth First, there\'s no \"right to work\". Good argument. You have supported your case well with hard facts. I raise the white flag. But you are right. They aren\'t denying him employment. What they are doing is basically trying to prevent him from even getting to the NFL equivalent of what would be the interview process, ie, the draft, where these kids are poked and prodded in the weeks leading up, interview after interview with various teams, tests, etc, which some would consider to be alot worse. Leave sarcasm to the professionals... Want \"hard facts\"? It\'s called the US Constitution. Go read it and tell me where it says you have the \"right to work\". Also, if you want to give the draft an equivalent in the real world, it would be a job offer, not an interview process. The interview process would be the Bowls, the combine, but NOT the draft. No one drafts a player and then checks on his 40 times and Wonderlic. And, that he\'s not elegible for the draft, does not mean that he cannot go to the combine, or hold private workouts for teams, nor it means that he couls not get picked up by a team as a free agent. The quick answer for the NFL would be, make it an academic requirement, i.e., a prosepective employee (if you want to play the real world game) has to have at least 3 years of college education. Done deal.
codename47 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 25

02-09-2004, 04:24 PM	#14
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Wasted youth That wasn\'t sarcasm. I really do raise the white flag. There are three things that I will never get into an argument over- politics, religion, and law. They all give me tired head, and is not worth going through the frustration. I believe that it isn\'t my place to tell this kid that he is or isn\'t ready to play in the NFL. That is for him to decide, and if anyone is foolish enough to use a 1st day pick on this guy, allow me to sit back and laugh at the team that does it. I could be negative, which is my initial reaction because of my love for college football, and say, \"hell no\", but if I put my own prejudices aside, I really can\'t see any reason not to let this guy in. If I was held accountable for everything I did in college, in my professional life, I\'d be holding a sign on your local street corner that says, \"I\'m not gonna lie- I need some beer!\"
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

02-09-2004, 09:06 PM	#15
codename47 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 25	Wasted youth That wasn\'t sarcasm. I really do raise the white flag. There are three things that I will never get into an argument over- politics, religion, and law. They all give me tired head, and is not worth going through the frustration. I believe that it isn\'t my place to tell this kid that he is or isn\'t ready to play in the NFL. That is for him to decide, and if anyone is foolish enough to use a 1st day pick on this guy, allow me to sit back and laugh at the team that does it. I could be negative, which is my initial reaction because of my love for college football, and say, \"hell no\", but if I put my own prejudices aside, I really can\'t see any reason not to let this guy in. If I was held accountable for everything I did in college, in my professional life, I\'d be holding a sign on your local street corner that says, \"I\'m not gonna lie- I need some beer!\" My bad, then... habits from my old board. Here\'s your beer...
codename47 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 25

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02-11-2004, 10:15 PM	#16
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Wasted youth i hate the ruling against the NFL, as most people have already stated, guys in the nfl have mature bodies and coming right out of high school most kids havent matured physically nor mentally, this ruling is a disgrace to our country and our new favorite pastime..... the NFL

02-11-2004, 11:57 PM	#17
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Wasted youth Here are 2 rather common sense legal ideas that undermine Clarett\'s case. 1. How it is reasonable to allow a kid to go out for the NFL when he isn\'t of legal age to consume alchohol? 2. How is it reasonable to allow a kid to go out for the NFL when he isn\'t of legal age to enter a binding contract? These are both public policy arguments, but I think there are all sorts of arguments for not allowing young-uns to play in the NFL that we uphold all the time in other areas.

02-12-2004, 09:42 AM	#18
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Wasted youth Somebody has been sneakin\' in to Loyola again. :P

02-12-2004, 01:01 PM	#19
NellyFord Registered Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Monkey Island Insane Asylum Posts: 58	Wasted youth Yeah well, Rainbows are pretty in the middle of the night, you figure that out and you figure out what\'s wrong with the world today. No, I\'m not on drugs its just the after effects of watching the saints for so many years. Okay, let\'s see everyone is saying how these young guys shouldnt be going pro, and even most of the nfl teams and execs are agreeing but we\'ll find out just how strongly they feel about that when the draft comes around, if Clarett is drafted higher than the 4th or 5th round I\'ll be highly dissappointed. GM\'s around the league have the responsibility to make their teams better and since they\'re the paid experts we\'ll see just what it is they do with this situation, Fitzgerald maybe but even he is not that great of a WR. The only thing I like about this ruiling is that I dont have to keep hearing about Eli Manning everyday, I\'m sick of him and his brother. Neither were worth a flip in high school, college, and Peyton is going to be a Dan Marino for his career. All the pretty numbers in the world but cant win the big games, he\'s a choke artist whenever he plays a good defense. [Edited on 12/2/2004 by NellyFord]
	It\'s Just An Opinion, Unless Spoken By Me!! Nelly Ford

02-12-2004, 03:55 PM	#20
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176	Wasted youth This ruling has nothing to do with Clarett. It has to do with the legality of keeping a \"man\" from working. At 18, you can go to war. Why can\'t you play football?
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176