Wasted youth

saintfan · 02-12-2004, 04:00 PM

Touchy. Jeesh. You just can\'t joke around with some folks. Noted, and ignored in the future. No problem here.

I\'ll let Halo and the others know you\'re interested in the job.

Finally (in an effort to accomodate) I\'m against the ruling. Everyone should be happy now.

[Edited on 12/2/2004 by ColdFusion]

SFinAustin · 02-12-2004, 05:24 PM

Well put Gator!

I couldn\'t have put it better myself (especially if I completely knew what I was talking about!)

I put \"man\" because he is of legal age to work but you\'re right, it\'s a trade issue. Some people keep saying that he can play in the CFL or Arena but it\'s not the same thing. They are the minor leagues.

[Edited on 12/2/2004 by SFinAustin]

codename47 · 02-12-2004, 05:42 PM

SFinAustin,

Its about trade restriction (ie: You can\'t make rules to disqualify a Class of persons from employment IF you are the only buyer of services b/c you are preventing the trade of services.

SO the NFL is preventing all persons (including Clarrett) b/c he is less than 3 years removed from Highschool from selling his service to the NFL b/c of their rule.

Clarrett and everyone in his Class have no other comparable buyer to sell their services to.

This is not about civil rights. Rt to drink, vote, etc. This is about trade. The market. And the US Anti-Trust laws that prevents businesses from restricting trade by establishing certain rules that arbitrarily limit trade.

...so lemme ask you...
..since the judge wants to play real world with the NFL...
what\'s the difference between requiring a person be removed 3 years from High School and requiring a person to have say, 3 years of experience in a specific trade in order to be considered for a job?
How about educational restrictions? Why can\'t you be allowed to work in, say, the FBI, without a college degree? No one offers the same job as the FBI in the US.. right? So how can they disqualify a whole class, i.e., people without college degrees, from selling their trade?

Also, again, the NFL rule is a requirement for entering the draft, NOT to be employed by the NFL. As a player, you can sign to any team you can get into regardless... There are no restrictions to free agents for that matter.
Entering the draft does NOT guarantee a job. So if no one drafts Clarett, then what?
What about all of the other players who enter the draft and don\'t get drafted?

..all in all, this is just the ruling of a judge trying to feel mighty powerful he\'s sticking it to the NFL.. probably an ice capades fan...

BlackandBlue · 02-12-2004, 05:54 PM

Question-

Would this be different if the NFL was paying the salaries and not the individual teams? It may be an ignorant question, but then again, I\'ve already stated that law isn\'t my strong point- that\'s what gator is for

mutusos_galvastane · 02-12-2004, 05:56 PM

I really don\'t see it a good thing for players too come into the NFL early. They really are not prepared for the hits there going too take. Not only that not mature enogh to take on the pressure of being celebrities. SEX, DRUGS,WOMEN all temptations.

whowatches · 02-12-2004, 08:58 PM

Whew... thanks gator. I think I\'m ready to sit for the bar.

No... wait... I meant that I\'m ready to sit at the bar.

I want to believe that this situation will take care of itself. The NFL is not basketball. Most college players can\'t make this leap until their junior year anyway because of physical limitations. And, draft picks are more valuable in the NFL. I don\'t see teams gambling too much on unproven underclassmen.

.02

WhoDat · 02-12-2004, 09:21 PM

I don\'t think this ruling is a slippery slope issue like it may be for basketball or baseball. Most of the players in the NFL come from major schools in major conferences and come out after their senior year. Even then many don\'t make an impact in the NFL until they can become stronger, understand the NFL game, and adjust to the speed. I don\'t care how great a high school athlete is, he\'s getting jacked up on an NFL field. Further, with free agency like it is, it does basically no good for a team to draft an 18 year old and hope that in four years he can be valuable to the organization. Teams don\'t develop talent anymore - just look at how bad tackling is in the NFL and you\'ll see that. You\'re expected to know how and what to do without having to run tackling drills or be hand-held through terminology. To me it\'s like saying a high school kid who excels in Biology is ready for Med School. Not even close. Football players need pre-NFL experience just like a Med or Law student needs college courses to prep for graduate school and their career.

SFinAustin · 02-12-2004, 10:17 PM

SFinAustin,

Its about trade restriction (ie: You can\'t make rules to disqualify a Class of persons from employment IF you are the only buyer of services b/c you are preventing the trade of services.

SO the NFL is preventing all persons (including Clarrett) b/c he is less than 3 years removed from Highschool from selling his service to the NFL b/c of their rule.

Clarrett and everyone in his Class have no other comparable buyer to sell their services to.

This is not about civil rights. Rt to drink, vote, etc. This is about trade. The market. And the US Anti-Trust laws that prevents businesses from restricting trade by establishing certain rules that arbitrarily limit trade.

...so lemme ask you...
..since the judge wants to play real world with the NFL...
what\'s the difference between requiring a person be removed 3 years from High School and requiring a person to have say, 3 years of experience in a specific trade in order to be considered for a job?
How about educational restrictions? Why can\'t you be allowed to work in, say, the FBI, without a college degree? No one offers the same job as the FBI in the US.. right? So how can they disqualify a whole class, i.e., people without college degrees, from selling their trade?

Also, again, the NFL rule is a requirement for entering the draft, NOT to be employed by the NFL. As a player, you can sign to any team you can get into regardless... There are no restrictions to free agents for that matter.
Entering the draft does NOT guarantee a job. So if no one drafts Clarett, then what?
What about all of the other players who enter the draft and don\'t get drafted?

..all in all, this is just the ruling of a judge trying to feel mighty powerful he\'s sticking it to the NFL.. probably an ice capades fan...

That\'s the question. What is the requirement to be met to be qualified for the NFL. To be an Engineer, you have to pass the P.E.\'s exam. To be a Lawyer, you have to pass the bar. What would qualify him for the NFL? How would he be deemed prepared? Simply being three years removed from high school doesn\'t cut it.

Many college graduates don\'t make it in the NFL. I would like to see every college player finish school but who am I to say that they have to?

I don\'t see the judge just trying to stick it to the NFL though. What would be the point of that? Everyone has stated that if ever challenged, the rule would be overturned. Could that be because it is unconstitutional? Yes.

02-12-2004, 04:00 PM	#21
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Wasted youth Touchy. Jeesh. You just can\'t joke around with some folks. Noted, and ignored in the future. No problem here. I\'ll let Halo and the others know you\'re interested in the job. Finally (in an effort to accomodate) I\'m against the ruling. Everyone should be happy now. [Edited on 12/2/2004 by ColdFusion]

02-12-2004, 05:24 PM	#22
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176	Wasted youth Well put Gator! I couldn\'t have put it better myself (especially if I completely knew what I was talking about!) I put \"man\" because he is of legal age to work but you\'re right, it\'s a trade issue. Some people keep saying that he can play in the CFL or Arena but it\'s not the same thing. They are the minor leagues. [Edited on 12/2/2004 by SFinAustin]
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176

02-12-2004, 05:42 PM	#23
codename47 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 25	Wasted youth SFinAustin, Its about trade restriction (ie: You can\'t make rules to disqualify a Class of persons from employment IF you are the only buyer of services b/c you are preventing the trade of services. SO the NFL is preventing all persons (including Clarrett) b/c he is less than 3 years removed from Highschool from selling his service to the NFL b/c of their rule. Clarrett and everyone in his Class have no other comparable buyer to sell their services to. This is not about civil rights. Rt to drink, vote, etc. This is about trade. The market. And the US Anti-Trust laws that prevents businesses from restricting trade by establishing certain rules that arbitrarily limit trade. ...so lemme ask you... ..since the judge wants to play real world with the NFL... what\'s the difference between requiring a person be removed 3 years from High School and requiring a person to have say, 3 years of experience in a specific trade in order to be considered for a job? How about educational restrictions? Why can\'t you be allowed to work in, say, the FBI, without a college degree? No one offers the same job as the FBI in the US.. right? So how can they disqualify a whole class, i.e., people without college degrees, from selling their trade? Also, again, the NFL rule is a requirement for entering the draft, NOT to be employed by the NFL. As a player, you can sign to any team you can get into regardless... There are no restrictions to free agents for that matter. Entering the draft does NOT guarantee a job. So if no one drafts Clarett, then what? What about all of the other players who enter the draft and don\'t get drafted? ..all in all, this is just the ruling of a judge trying to feel mighty powerful he\'s sticking it to the NFL.. probably an ice capades fan...
codename47 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 25

02-12-2004, 05:54 PM	#24
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Wasted youth Question- Would this be different if the NFL was paying the salaries and not the individual teams? It may be an ignorant question, but then again, I\'ve already stated that law isn\'t my strong point- that\'s what gator is for

02-12-2004, 05:56 PM	#25
mutusos_galvastane Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 20	Wasted youth I really don\'t see it a good thing for players too come into the NFL early. They really are not prepared for the hits there going too take. Not only that not mature enogh to take on the pressure of being celebrities. SEX, DRUGS,WOMEN all temptations.
mutusos_galvastane Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 20

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02-12-2004, 08:58 PM	#26
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	Wasted youth Whew... thanks gator. I think I\'m ready to sit for the bar. No... wait... I meant that I\'m ready to sit at the bar. I want to believe that this situation will take care of itself. The NFL is not basketball. Most college players can\'t make this leap until their junior year anyway because of physical limitations. And, draft picks are more valuable in the NFL. I don\'t see teams gambling too much on unproven underclassmen. .02
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

02-12-2004, 09:21 PM	#27
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Wasted youth I don\'t think this ruling is a slippery slope issue like it may be for basketball or baseball. Most of the players in the NFL come from major schools in major conferences and come out after their senior year. Even then many don\'t make an impact in the NFL until they can become stronger, understand the NFL game, and adjust to the speed. I don\'t care how great a high school athlete is, he\'s getting jacked up on an NFL field. Further, with free agency like it is, it does basically no good for a team to draft an 18 year old and hope that in four years he can be valuable to the organization. Teams don\'t develop talent anymore - just look at how bad tackling is in the NFL and you\'ll see that. You\'re expected to know how and what to do without having to run tackling drills or be hand-held through terminology. To me it\'s like saying a high school kid who excels in Biology is ready for Med School. Not even close. Football players need pre-NFL experience just like a Med or Law student needs college courses to prep for graduate school and their career.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

02-12-2004, 10:17 PM	#28
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176	Wasted youth SFinAustin, Its about trade restriction (ie: You can\'t make rules to disqualify a Class of persons from employment IF you are the only buyer of services b/c you are preventing the trade of services. SO the NFL is preventing all persons (including Clarrett) b/c he is less than 3 years removed from Highschool from selling his service to the NFL b/c of their rule. Clarrett and everyone in his Class have no other comparable buyer to sell their services to. This is not about civil rights. Rt to drink, vote, etc. This is about trade. The market. And the US Anti-Trust laws that prevents businesses from restricting trade by establishing certain rules that arbitrarily limit trade. ...so lemme ask you... ..since the judge wants to play real world with the NFL... what\'s the difference between requiring a person be removed 3 years from High School and requiring a person to have say, 3 years of experience in a specific trade in order to be considered for a job? How about educational restrictions? Why can\'t you be allowed to work in, say, the FBI, without a college degree? No one offers the same job as the FBI in the US.. right? So how can they disqualify a whole class, i.e., people without college degrees, from selling their trade? Also, again, the NFL rule is a requirement for entering the draft, NOT to be employed by the NFL. As a player, you can sign to any team you can get into regardless... There are no restrictions to free agents for that matter. Entering the draft does NOT guarantee a job. So if no one drafts Clarett, then what? What about all of the other players who enter the draft and don\'t get drafted? ..all in all, this is just the ruling of a judge trying to feel mighty powerful he\'s sticking it to the NFL.. probably an ice capades fan... That\'s the question. What is the requirement to be met to be qualified for the NFL. To be an Engineer, you have to pass the P.E.\'s exam. To be a Lawyer, you have to pass the bar. What would qualify him for the NFL? How would he be deemed prepared? Simply being three years removed from high school doesn\'t cut it. Many college graduates don\'t make it in the NFL. I would like to see every college player finish school but who am I to say that they have to? I don\'t see the judge just trying to stick it to the NFL though. What would be the point of that? Everyone has stated that if ever challenged, the rule would be overturned. Could that be because it is unconstitutional? Yes.
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176