From the 08 propaganda file

WhoDat · 02-12-2004, 09:50 AM

Why do we need interior linemen? I was under the impression that we had about a million young talented interior linemen that could play multiple positions. I\'d like a real lock-down LT. Move Gandy over to the right where he has a chance to maintain as he ages. I think he is overrated now and as he gets a step slower and young DEs keep getting bigger and faster, he\'s going to get exploited. If we take any OLman in the draft I want a LT.

saintz08 · 02-12-2004, 11:20 AM

Was board trolling last night and I came upon a post from a poster that stood out at me , not because of any stats or great arguements but because of a couple of interesting thoughts .

The 08 Propaganda file thread , is not about fact . It is about rumors , speculation and stirring the creative thought process . Give it a read :

In Eli Manning the Saints have a shot at doing something special. Benson\'s granddaughter has all but broken in her owner\'s pen. She is cutting her teeth on sports ownership/marketing/administration with the Voodoo as we type. Yeah, ok, it ain\'t the NFL but it ain\'t NORD flag football either.

Negotiations will heat up and reach some sort of resolution on a new stadium or dome renovation within the next 18 months, if not sooner.

Things are happening locally in terms of investment that should put talks of franchise relocation on ice for awhile. Witness the new rug in the dome and the installation of the relatively new state-of-the-art Airline Drive practice facility.

Wanna seal the deal with a somewhat disgruntled fan base? Go after a native son, with proven ability to lead football teams.

It would win people over and put more fannies in the seats. What better way for Benson to hand things over to his granddaughter. To leave things better than when he found them...

This could really makes things very interesting here.

BrooksMustGo · 02-12-2004, 12:13 PM

Go Rita!

That would be awesome. I can think of no better gift that Benson could give to the franchise and the state than Eli Manning.

If there was ever a time to pull a Ditka and make the trade, this is it.

Even though I think we could pawn off Brook on the Chargers with our number 2\'s and get the top pick.

WhoDat · 02-12-2004, 08:59 PM

More pressing needs on defense.... more pressing needs on defense... our QB, while not great, is not the problem. Hello? As much as I like to bash Brooks, paying another unproven athlete a ton of money to be inconsistent (which any rookie QB will be) is a BAD idea.

That being said, I do love the idea of a Manning back in Black and Gold. I\'ll tell you what. You get me Al Wilson, Champ Bailey or Charles Woodson and another servicable CB or DT and I\'ll support the Manning deal whole-heartedly. If the Saints make this move I will no doubt love the kid, but it\'s still the WRONG move for this organization - especially b/c it will probably save Haslett\'s job, and that may be the worst reason of all.

whowatches · 02-12-2004, 09:07 PM

it\'s still the WRONG move for this organization - especially b/c it will probably save Haslett\'s job, and that may be the worst reason of all.

A-FRIGGIN-Men

I\'m tired of worrying about our offense. I\'d like to see all D this offseason. Let\'s see if Haslett can make some decent personel decisions on that side of the ball and make them work.

I\'m as guilty of Manninglove as the next guy, but I\'m tired of starting over. Haslett has made his bed; let\'s make him sleep in it and not give him a chance to change the sheets.

(Was that, like, the worst metaphor ever, or what?)

BrooksMustGo · 02-12-2004, 09:43 PM

I\'m as guilty of Manninglove as the next guy, but I\'m tired of starting over. Haslett has made his bed; let\'s make him sleep in it and not give him a chance to change the sheets.

Everyone on this board knows that I\'m ready for a Haslett regime change.
I think this year\'s draft is one of those watershed moments. We have a realistic shot of making a major move on Eli. A Manning in the black and gold would do a LOT to buy this franchise some credibility. A Manning in black and gold would do a LOT for the long term prospects of this team.

What we do have is a pretty decent free agency in front of us with proven players in all of our critical need positions. So why not make a move on Eli?

Here are some things we already know, take them to the bank.
1. Haslett will mismanage most games he coaches, this is going to hurt his long term prospects here. Eli will not save him. If anything, fans will go ape that Haslett is hurting Eli\'s chances for success.

2. Venturi and McCarthy aren\'t showing me that they are even average coordinators on this level. This does not bode well for Haslett\'s long term prospects here.

3. Haslett is not a great evaluator/developer of talent. I don\'t see Haslett making all the right moves in a draft. If anything the guy reaches on players that aren\'t good value. Last year\'s Georgia love-fest should make this evident.

4. Several key free agents are going to hit the market.
If the 49ers tag Peterson, they have to let Plummer walk. I\'d be happy with Plummer at corner.
Robaire Smith and Ted Washington are both going to be free agents and I\'d be happy with either of them.
Denver won\'t be able to protect both Wilson and Gold and either would be a real coup for us.
Jeremiah Trotter may find himself a cap casualty and be a great value.
All this to say that we have a shot at really going after some premier players. The right 3 free agents might save Haslett\'s job, but I\'m pretty secure that Haslett could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with any dream team you could imagine.

5. Haslett doesn\'t develop draft picks very well. We basically get 2 starters a year through Haslett\'s draft prowess. Sometimes we get lucky, sometimes we get Stinchcomb. The draft is not a magic bullet to fix what ails this defense. Best case scenario nets us 2 starters. Everyone here knows that rookie corners get burned on a regular basis and Haslett like defensive linemen. We will have holes left over if we\'re counting on the draft to give us starters.

6. Haslett LOVES Brooks. This fact alone puts Haslett\'s job in peril.

7. However, if Haslett could be locked in a closet on draft day, maybe someone would have the presence of mind to trade Brooks to the Chargers and not have to sacrifice our entire draft to go get Eli. For whatever else he is, Brooks is a starting QB with a large head. The Chargers might be persuaded to give up their number 1 for our number 2\'s and Brooks. All of this depends on who wins the Mark Brunnell derby.

The most important fact is that a shot at Eli is a once in a lifetime shot, we ought to move heaven and earth to go get him. Venturi already cost us Peyton, let\'s not let Eli get away.

[Edited on 13/2/2004 by BrooksMustGo]

saintz08 · 02-12-2004, 11:00 PM

Brunell has an outstanding contract that is due 10.5 million .

Gibbs immediately went after Brunell as a potential starter . For the Redskins to sign Brunell they might have to get rid of someone .Someone on Airline dr. could potentially put together a low round draft pick trade for Trotter being the the Redskins would be looking for immediate cap relief .Trotter does not fit in their system and has not lived up to their expectations .

If the Saints could package a deal to San Diego , which would include Brooks , the first draft pick and the first second pick , the Chargers could bite . Spanos in San Diego has no desire to have another rookie under center .

Then go to Washington and offer a 3rd or a 4th to take Trotter off their hands , who they may potentially cut anyway . The Saints have the middle linebacker problem solved .

Saints could go after a name corner in free agency and then the Saints could go in on draft day with an early 2nd and draft a corner .

Saints would have a leader under center and a leader in the defensive center . Along with a veteran corner and a rookie corner .

saintfan · 02-13-2004, 09:28 AM

Please oh please don\'t take this as a taking up for Haslett or save Haslett or its not Haslett\'s fault thread b/c its not.

See, that\'s the problem. Have things really improved? Why do you have to post a disclaimer like this? It\'s OK if you don\'t think the 8-8 season isn\'t necessarilly a reflection on Haz\'s ability to coach. You don\'t have to think Haz is Satan to post here. Our numbers are small indeed, but we\'re powerful and we will remian!

If the Saints trade Brooks I swear I\'ll send 08 some whiskey. Not gonna happen.

WhoDat · 02-13-2004, 10:05 AM

If the Saints trade Brooks I swear I\'ll send 08 some whiskey. Not gonna happen.

Couldn\'t agree more. It\'s a nice idea, but it will NEVER happen. I know that guys here won\'t stop talking about Eli for probably another year. First they\'ll bash the Saints for not making a move for him, paint him as this team\'s savior, and then beash the team and whoever they pick instead of Eli, and probably tie it back to Brooks somehow (yes Saintfan, I do realize that happens here, hopefully you realize that I don\'t blame everything on the guy).

As good as I think Eli will be, as much as the prospect of a Manning wearing a Fleur de Lis makes me salivate, not only will it not happen, it shouldn\'t happen. Making a move for Eli Manning is a BAD move for this team.

I mean, if Brooks is such a bad QB, and you get rid of him, then what? Does Bouman start? What if he plays well - when do you bring in the kid and if he struggles, will the fans turn on him and want Bouman back? This team is a few players away from being real contenders. MOST of the players are on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball, and QB is not a concern.

I mean, let\'s get real. The Saints do not have the money, even with all the cap room, to sign Howard, a Wilson-type LB, Bailey-type corner, Washington-type DT, AND the first pik of the draft. Not a chance. I\'m not sure what pawning Brooks\' contract off would do to our numbers, but even with that I don\'t know if what you guys are talking about is possible.

Further, the time for this team is NOW. Get the impact players you need in free agency. Look for a guy who can come in and start as a rookie in the first round of the draft and make your push for a SB. Why would you want to make a major position on the field even more questionable? I\'m not a fan of Brooks, but right now, like it or not, it doesn\'t make sense to make a change... unless, and this is the only way I can see it being viable, the Saints believe that Bouman can be a legitimate challenger for the starting spot this season. Then you get rid of Brooks while his stock is still high. That being said, knowing how Haslett treats Brooks, I seriously doubt that he\'d consider any other QB in New Orleans.

saintfan · 02-13-2004, 10:30 AM

Couldn\'t agree more. It\'s a nice idea, but it will NEVER happen. I know that guys here won\'t stop talking about Eli for probably another year. First they\'ll bash the Saints for not making a move for him, paint him as this team\'s savior, and then beash the team and whoever they pick instead of Eli, and probably tie it back to Brooks somehow (yes Saintfan, I do realize that happens here, hopefully you realize that I don\'t blame everything on the guy).

I\'ve known all along that you were aware of how things really are. I\'m a bit surprised to see you admit that you\'re aware of it tho.

I also agree with you completely regarding the time for the Saints being NOW. I think they\'ve got a coupla years to get it done and I cannot understand why it is that people wanna sacrifice that for a rookie QB just because his last name is Manning. Nothing againt Eli...if things were different I\'d be all for tradin up for the kid, but things being what they are it doesn\'t make sense unless you\'re willing to sacrifice NOW for LATER.

02-12-2004, 09:50 AM	#11
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	From the 08 propaganda file Why do we need interior linemen? I was under the impression that we had about a million young talented interior linemen that could play multiple positions. I\'d like a real lock-down LT. Move Gandy over to the right where he has a chance to maintain as he ages. I think he is overrated now and as he gets a step slower and young DEs keep getting bigger and faster, he\'s going to get exploited. If we take any OLman in the draft I want a LT.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

02-12-2004, 11:20 AM	#12
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	From the 08 propaganda file Was board trolling last night and I came upon a post from a poster that stood out at me , not because of any stats or great arguements but because of a couple of interesting thoughts . The 08 Propaganda file thread , is not about fact . It is about rumors , speculation and stirring the creative thought process . Give it a read : In Eli Manning the Saints have a shot at doing something special. Benson\'s granddaughter has all but broken in her owner\'s pen. She is cutting her teeth on sports ownership/marketing/administration with the Voodoo as we type. Yeah, ok, it ain\'t the NFL but it ain\'t NORD flag football either. Negotiations will heat up and reach some sort of resolution on a new stadium or dome renovation within the next 18 months, if not sooner. Things are happening locally in terms of investment that should put talks of franchise relocation on ice for awhile. Witness the new rug in the dome and the installation of the relatively new state-of-the-art Airline Drive practice facility. Wanna seal the deal with a somewhat disgruntled fan base? Go after a native son, with proven ability to lead football teams. It would win people over and put more fannies in the seats. What better way for Benson to hand things over to his granddaughter. To leave things better than when he found them... This could really makes things very interesting here.
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

02-12-2004, 12:13 PM	#13
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	From the 08 propaganda file Go Rita! That would be awesome. I can think of no better gift that Benson could give to the franchise and the state than Eli Manning. If there was ever a time to pull a Ditka and make the trade, this is it. Even though I think we could pawn off Brook on the Chargers with our number 2\'s and get the top pick.

02-12-2004, 08:59 PM	#14
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	From the 08 propaganda file More pressing needs on defense.... more pressing needs on defense... our QB, while not great, is not the problem. Hello? As much as I like to bash Brooks, paying another unproven athlete a ton of money to be inconsistent (which any rookie QB will be) is a BAD idea. That being said, I do love the idea of a Manning back in Black and Gold. I\'ll tell you what. You get me Al Wilson, Champ Bailey or Charles Woodson and another servicable CB or DT and I\'ll support the Manning deal whole-heartedly. If the Saints make this move I will no doubt love the kid, but it\'s still the WRONG move for this organization - especially b/c it will probably save Haslett\'s job, and that may be the worst reason of all.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

02-12-2004, 09:07 PM	#15
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	From the 08 propaganda file it\'s still the WRONG move for this organization - especially b/c it will probably save Haslett\'s job, and that may be the worst reason of all. A-FRIGGIN-Men I\'m tired of worrying about our offense. I\'d like to see all D this offseason. Let\'s see if Haslett can make some decent personel decisions on that side of the ball and make them work. I\'m as guilty of Manninglove as the next guy, but I\'m tired of starting over. Haslett has made his bed; let\'s make him sleep in it and not give him a chance to change the sheets. (Was that, like, the worst metaphor ever, or what?)
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

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02-12-2004, 09:43 PM	#16
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	From the 08 propaganda file I\'m as guilty of Manninglove as the next guy, but I\'m tired of starting over. Haslett has made his bed; let\'s make him sleep in it and not give him a chance to change the sheets. Everyone on this board knows that I\'m ready for a Haslett regime change. I think this year\'s draft is one of those watershed moments. We have a realistic shot of making a major move on Eli. A Manning in the black and gold would do a LOT to buy this franchise some credibility. A Manning in black and gold would do a LOT for the long term prospects of this team. What we do have is a pretty decent free agency in front of us with proven players in all of our critical need positions. So why not make a move on Eli? Here are some things we already know, take them to the bank. 1. Haslett will mismanage most games he coaches, this is going to hurt his long term prospects here. Eli will not save him. If anything, fans will go ape that Haslett is hurting Eli\'s chances for success. 2. Venturi and McCarthy aren\'t showing me that they are even average coordinators on this level. This does not bode well for Haslett\'s long term prospects here. 3. Haslett is not a great evaluator/developer of talent. I don\'t see Haslett making all the right moves in a draft. If anything the guy reaches on players that aren\'t good value. Last year\'s Georgia love-fest should make this evident. 4. Several key free agents are going to hit the market. If the 49ers tag Peterson, they have to let Plummer walk. I\'d be happy with Plummer at corner. Robaire Smith and Ted Washington are both going to be free agents and I\'d be happy with either of them. Denver won\'t be able to protect both Wilson and Gold and either would be a real coup for us. Jeremiah Trotter may find himself a cap casualty and be a great value. All this to say that we have a shot at really going after some premier players. The right 3 free agents might save Haslett\'s job, but I\'m pretty secure that Haslett could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with any dream team you could imagine. 5. Haslett doesn\'t develop draft picks very well. We basically get 2 starters a year through Haslett\'s draft prowess. Sometimes we get lucky, sometimes we get Stinchcomb. The draft is not a magic bullet to fix what ails this defense. Best case scenario nets us 2 starters. Everyone here knows that rookie corners get burned on a regular basis and Haslett like defensive linemen. We will have holes left over if we\'re counting on the draft to give us starters. 6. Haslett LOVES Brooks. This fact alone puts Haslett\'s job in peril. 7. However, if Haslett could be locked in a closet on draft day, maybe someone would have the presence of mind to trade Brooks to the Chargers and not have to sacrifice our entire draft to go get Eli. For whatever else he is, Brooks is a starting QB with a large head. The Chargers might be persuaded to give up their number 1 for our number 2\'s and Brooks. All of this depends on who wins the Mark Brunnell derby. The most important fact is that a shot at Eli is a once in a lifetime shot, we ought to move heaven and earth to go get him. Venturi already cost us Peyton, let\'s not let Eli get away. [Edited on 13/2/2004 by BrooksMustGo]
	http://www.blackandgold.net/site/signature/buddysig.jpg

02-12-2004, 11:00 PM	#17
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	From the 08 propaganda file Brunell has an outstanding contract that is due 10.5 million . Gibbs immediately went after Brunell as a potential starter . For the Redskins to sign Brunell they might have to get rid of someone .Someone on Airline dr. could potentially put together a low round draft pick trade for Trotter being the the Redskins would be looking for immediate cap relief .Trotter does not fit in their system and has not lived up to their expectations . If the Saints could package a deal to San Diego , which would include Brooks , the first draft pick and the first second pick , the Chargers could bite . Spanos in San Diego has no desire to have another rookie under center . Then go to Washington and offer a 3rd or a 4th to take Trotter off their hands , who they may potentially cut anyway . The Saints have the middle linebacker problem solved . Saints could go after a name corner in free agency and then the Saints could go in on draft day with an early 2nd and draft a corner . Saints would have a leader under center and a leader in the defensive center . Along with a veteran corner and a rookie corner .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

02-13-2004, 09:28 AM	#18
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	From the 08 propaganda file Please oh please don\'t take this as a taking up for Haslett or save Haslett or its not Haslett\'s fault thread b/c its not. See, that\'s the problem. Have things really improved? Why do you have to post a disclaimer like this? It\'s OK if you don\'t think the 8-8 season isn\'t necessarilly a reflection on Haz\'s ability to coach. You don\'t have to think Haz is Satan to post here. Our numbers are small indeed, but we\'re powerful and we will remian! If the Saints trade Brooks I swear I\'ll send 08 some whiskey. Not gonna happen.

02-13-2004, 10:05 AM	#19
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	From the 08 propaganda file If the Saints trade Brooks I swear I\'ll send 08 some whiskey. Not gonna happen. Couldn\'t agree more. It\'s a nice idea, but it will NEVER happen. I know that guys here won\'t stop talking about Eli for probably another year. First they\'ll bash the Saints for not making a move for him, paint him as this team\'s savior, and then beash the team and whoever they pick instead of Eli, and probably tie it back to Brooks somehow (yes Saintfan, I do realize that happens here, hopefully you realize that I don\'t blame everything on the guy). As good as I think Eli will be, as much as the prospect of a Manning wearing a Fleur de Lis makes me salivate, not only will it not happen, it shouldn\'t happen. Making a move for Eli Manning is a BAD move for this team. I mean, if Brooks is such a bad QB, and you get rid of him, then what? Does Bouman start? What if he plays well - when do you bring in the kid and if he struggles, will the fans turn on him and want Bouman back? This team is a few players away from being real contenders. MOST of the players are on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball, and QB is not a concern. I mean, let\'s get real. The Saints do not have the money, even with all the cap room, to sign Howard, a Wilson-type LB, Bailey-type corner, Washington-type DT, AND the first pik of the draft. Not a chance. I\'m not sure what pawning Brooks\' contract off would do to our numbers, but even with that I don\'t know if what you guys are talking about is possible. Further, the time for this team is NOW. Get the impact players you need in free agency. Look for a guy who can come in and start as a rookie in the first round of the draft and make your push for a SB. Why would you want to make a major position on the field even more questionable? I\'m not a fan of Brooks, but right now, like it or not, it doesn\'t make sense to make a change... unless, and this is the only way I can see it being viable, the Saints believe that Bouman can be a legitimate challenger for the starting spot this season. Then you get rid of Brooks while his stock is still high. That being said, knowing how Haslett treats Brooks, I seriously doubt that he\'d consider any other QB in New Orleans.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

02-13-2004, 10:30 AM	#20
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	From the 08 propaganda file Couldn\'t agree more. It\'s a nice idea, but it will NEVER happen. I know that guys here won\'t stop talking about Eli for probably another year. First they\'ll bash the Saints for not making a move for him, paint him as this team\'s savior, and then beash the team and whoever they pick instead of Eli, and probably tie it back to Brooks somehow (yes Saintfan, I do realize that happens here, hopefully you realize that I don\'t blame everything on the guy). I\'ve known all along that you were aware of how things really are. I\'m a bit surprised to see you admit that you\'re aware of it tho. I also agree with you completely regarding the time for the Saints being NOW. I think they\'ve got a coupla years to get it done and I cannot understand why it is that people wanna sacrifice that for a rookie QB just because his last name is Manning. Nothing againt Eli...if things were different I\'d be all for tradin up for the kid, but things being what they are it doesn\'t make sense unless you\'re willing to sacrifice NOW for LATER.
	C'mon Man...