Secondary

Cadillac · 02-11-2004, 03:05 PM

The Saints will almost certainly bid for a free agent Corner this year. More than one would be a waste of cap money, as Fred Thomas does not need to be upgraded. Chris McAllister is almost certainly off the market.

I would rate the rest of the Fa Corners like this.
1. Champ Bailey - Unlikely to become available.
2. Charles Woodson - His attitude might be an issue, but his skills are unquestionable.
3. Shawn Springs - Young and talented, but unlikely to be available.
4. Ahmed Plummer - Good cover corner who wont get tagged (49ers will tag Peterson)
5. Troy Vincent - Skilled but aging, might be too expensive for what youre getting.
6. Fernando Bryant - Young but not as talented as some that will be available.
7. Bobby Taylor - Old and will likely be overpriced.

I also think the Saints should maybe try out Ambrose at Safety next season. He has slowed down a step or two but is still talented. Aeneas Williams made the jump for the Rams last year and did very well, after age was starting to show the past couple seasons when he played corner. What do you all think?

[Edited on 11/2/2004 by Cadillac]

[Edited on 11/2/2004 by Cadillac]

Danno · 02-11-2004, 04:42 PM

Welcome aboard Caddy

Your prose appears familiar....
There\'s a lot of negativity on this board, but for the most part justified, but way to recurring.

I think we\'re down to about 4 optimists now and I hope you join our sunshine club.

BTW: How do you feel about the whole Aaron Brooks situation?

Cadillac · 02-11-2004, 05:25 PM

I\'m definitely an optimist. I mean it\'s dissapointing that the Saints havent made the playoffs the past couple years, but I kind of feel they were 3 bad breaks away from making the playoffs... The last games against Tampa and Carolina, and of course the game against the Jags could of easily went our way. Theres not a huge difference in the teams that go 8-8 and the teams that go 11-5 anymroe.

As for Aaron, I think he is a good, but not great, QB. I think he is more accurate than people give him credit for. I think he reads coverages well (and only throwing 8 interceptions is tough to argue against). The fumbles were a big problem this year, but if Haslett gets him practicing taking snaps and handing the ball off, that shouldn\'t be as much of a problem next year. He isn\'t good enough to carry the team, but with Deuce in the backfield he doesn\'t have to.

And hey, if Trent Dilfer was talented enough to win a superbowl, you better believe Aaron is.

[Edited on 11/2/2004 by Cadillac]

saintfan · 02-11-2004, 05:51 PM

Somebody check that Man\'s IP addy. I like the way he thinks!

:P

saintz08 · 02-11-2004, 07:55 PM

Cadillac

Noticed Winfield was not on your list , any insight there ??

Bills have roughly 8 Mil under the cap so he could slip out .

1 Champ Bailey Redskins UFA 26 9.10
2 Charles Woodson Raiders UFA 27 8.95
3 Chris McAlister Ravens UFA 27 7.25
4 Antoine Winfield Bills UFA 27 6.55
5 Troy Vincent Eagles UFA 34 6.35
6 Bobby Taylor Eagles UFA 30 6.00
7 Fernando Bryant Jaguars UFA 27 5.95
8 Shawn Springs Seahawks UFA 29 5.80
9 Ahmed Plummer 49ers UFA 28 5.75
10 Will Peterson Giants RFA 25 5.45

Cadillac · 02-11-2004, 08:08 PM

Apologies, Winfield being left off was a completely unintentional. I would place him right under Shawn Springs He doesn\'t quite have Baileys or Woodsons ability, but he definitely has big time talent.

JKool · 02-11-2004, 09:27 PM

Welcome Cadillac.

We members of the sunshine club (if indeed I am still a member) can always use a few more happy people. Your attitude does seem familiar, but I\'m not sure if there is some inside joke I am missing?

As for your question about corners, I am actually of the opinion that we should take a long look at Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent. Of course, each will be a bit more expensive and they are not long term solutions, but both of them have winning attitudes and a butt-load of experience; those are two things that our defense is badly in need of. We should then try to draft a CB with potential with one of our two 2nd round picks.

As for moving Ambrose to Safety, I\'m not sure why we need another Safety? All disparagement of T-buck aside, why would we want a Ambrose, who will undoubtedly be slower than Mel and T-buck, to have to learn a new position? Sometimes the transition goes well, but in our case we are not in despirate need so why force it? I don\'t see any reason not to keep Ambrose as a nickle back; it\'s not like he is that much slower or is generally sucky in any way.

Cheers.

whowatches · 02-11-2004, 09:30 PM

I personally would prefer either Winfield or Bryant from the above lists.

What do you guys think about going after a couple of restricted free agent corners?

Either of these players would make a nice addition. Both are young. What round pick would you give up for them?

Jerametrius Butler, Rams (RFA)
Stats http://<a href="http://www.nfl.com/p...age/235032</a>

Nick Harper, Colts (RFA)
Stats http://<a href="http://www.nfl.com/p...age/223763</a>

Thoughts?

pakowitz · 02-11-2004, 10:25 PM

Jerametrius Butler? Nick Harper? are you kidding me? i think we could take a better corner in the draft with much more potential....

on the ambrose note, i think he was considerably slower this year yet he always seemed to make a big play in ever game, yet he gave up big yards everygame but he did make a big play!!

i like winfield. not bryant so much, im not sold on his ability to grow as a player....if i had my choice, id take champ bailey and charles woodson but they will both be expensive.... i also like shawn springs, he was injured most of this year and he could be a big addition and likely wouldnt cost as much as bailey or woodson

BrooksMustGo · 02-11-2004, 11:55 PM

Champ Baily on a 5 year deal, even though expensive, would allow us a nice long term solution to what seems like a perennially weak secondary.

I just don\'t have confidence in the coaching staff to develop players. I\'d far rather pick a proven commodity who can perform at a high level than trust Has and co to \"coach him up\".

02-11-2004, 03:05 PM	#1
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	Secondary The Saints will almost certainly bid for a free agent Corner this year. More than one would be a waste of cap money, as Fred Thomas does not need to be upgraded. Chris McAllister is almost certainly off the market. I would rate the rest of the Fa Corners like this. 1. Champ Bailey - Unlikely to become available. 2. Charles Woodson - His attitude might be an issue, but his skills are unquestionable. 3. Shawn Springs - Young and talented, but unlikely to be available. 4. Ahmed Plummer - Good cover corner who wont get tagged (49ers will tag Peterson) 5. Troy Vincent - Skilled but aging, might be too expensive for what youre getting. 6. Fernando Bryant - Young but not as talented as some that will be available. 7. Bobby Taylor - Old and will likely be overpriced. I also think the Saints should maybe try out Ambrose at Safety next season. He has slowed down a step or two but is still talented. Aeneas Williams made the jump for the Rams last year and did very well, after age was starting to show the past couple seasons when he played corner. What do you all think? [Edited on 11/2/2004 by Cadillac] [Edited on 11/2/2004 by Cadillac]
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121

02-11-2004, 04:42 PM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,725	Secondary Welcome aboard Caddy Your prose appears familiar.... There\'s a lot of negativity on this board, but for the most part justified, but way to recurring. I think we\'re down to about 4 optimists now and I hope you join our sunshine club. BTW: How do you feel about the whole Aaron Brooks situation?

02-11-2004, 05:25 PM	#3
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	Secondary I\'m definitely an optimist. I mean it\'s dissapointing that the Saints havent made the playoffs the past couple years, but I kind of feel they were 3 bad breaks away from making the playoffs... The last games against Tampa and Carolina, and of course the game against the Jags could of easily went our way. Theres not a huge difference in the teams that go 8-8 and the teams that go 11-5 anymroe. As for Aaron, I think he is a good, but not great, QB. I think he is more accurate than people give him credit for. I think he reads coverages well (and only throwing 8 interceptions is tough to argue against). The fumbles were a big problem this year, but if Haslett gets him practicing taking snaps and handing the ball off, that shouldn\'t be as much of a problem next year. He isn\'t good enough to carry the team, but with Deuce in the backfield he doesn\'t have to. And hey, if Trent Dilfer was talented enough to win a superbowl, you better believe Aaron is. [Edited on 11/2/2004 by Cadillac]
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	\'They want to give me $6 million. What do I do? - Fred Thomas

02-11-2004, 05:51 PM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Secondary Somebody check that Man\'s IP addy. I like the way he thinks! :P

02-11-2004, 07:55 PM	#5
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Secondary Cadillac Noticed Winfield was not on your list , any insight there ?? Bills have roughly 8 Mil under the cap so he could slip out . 1 Champ Bailey Redskins UFA 26 9.10 2 Charles Woodson Raiders UFA 27 8.95 3 Chris McAlister Ravens UFA 27 7.25 4 Antoine Winfield Bills UFA 27 6.55 5 Troy Vincent Eagles UFA 34 6.35 6 Bobby Taylor Eagles UFA 30 6.00 7 Fernando Bryant Jaguars UFA 27 5.95 8 Shawn Springs Seahawks UFA 29 5.80 9 Ahmed Plummer 49ers UFA 28 5.75 10 Will Peterson Giants RFA 25 5.45
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

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02-11-2004, 08:08 PM	#6
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	Secondary Apologies, Winfield being left off was a completely unintentional. I would place him right under Shawn Springs He doesn\'t quite have Baileys or Woodsons ability, but he definitely has big time talent.
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121

02-11-2004, 09:27 PM	#7
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Secondary Welcome Cadillac. We members of the sunshine club (if indeed I am still a member) can always use a few more happy people. Your attitude does seem familiar, but I\'m not sure if there is some inside joke I am missing? As for your question about corners, I am actually of the opinion that we should take a long look at Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent. Of course, each will be a bit more expensive and they are not long term solutions, but both of them have winning attitudes and a butt-load of experience; those are two things that our defense is badly in need of. We should then try to draft a CB with potential with one of our two 2nd round picks. As for moving Ambrose to Safety, I\'m not sure why we need another Safety? All disparagement of T-buck aside, why would we want a Ambrose, who will undoubtedly be slower than Mel and T-buck, to have to learn a new position? Sometimes the transition goes well, but in our case we are not in despirate need so why force it? I don\'t see any reason not to keep Ambrose as a nickle back; it\'s not like he is that much slower or is generally sucky in any way. Cheers.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

02-11-2004, 09:30 PM	#8
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	Secondary I personally would prefer either Winfield or Bryant from the above lists. What do you guys think about going after a couple of restricted free agent corners? Either of these players would make a nice addition. Both are young. What round pick would you give up for them? Jerametrius Butler, Rams (RFA) Stats http://<a href="http://www.nfl.com/p...age/235032</a> Nick Harper, Colts (RFA) Stats http://<a href="http://www.nfl.com/p...age/223763</a> Thoughts?
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

02-11-2004, 10:25 PM	#9
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Secondary Jerametrius Butler? Nick Harper? are you kidding me? i think we could take a better corner in the draft with much more potential.... on the ambrose note, i think he was considerably slower this year yet he always seemed to make a big play in ever game, yet he gave up big yards everygame but he did make a big play!! i like winfield. not bryant so much, im not sold on his ability to grow as a player....if i had my choice, id take champ bailey and charles woodson but they will both be expensive.... i also like shawn springs, he was injured most of this year and he could be a big addition and likely wouldnt cost as much as bailey or woodson
	I Live In Beastmode!

02-11-2004, 11:55 PM	#10
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Secondary Champ Baily on a 5 year deal, even though expensive, would allow us a nice long term solution to what seems like a perennially weak secondary. I just don\'t have confidence in the coaching staff to develop players. I\'d far rather pick a proven commodity who can perform at a high level than trust Has and co to \"coach him up\".