You know,
 

I'm not buying that Ivory missed that game because of injury. No freakin way. He was getting better after his first game back which is normal and looked real good against Tampa and was set to have an even better game this past Sunday and Payton comes up with this hamstring BS so he could try to get some more validation for his new offensive toy Mark Ingram who blew again this week. :doh:

I like this only because i think Ivory is the better RB right now...he see's the hole better and is more explosive...now say what you want about the O_line...P.T got yards on a few carries yesterday and Ivory did last week..

I would hope draft status wouldn't matter here..just the better player..

Im not hating on Ingram,..he is a rookie..but was supposed to be NFL ready...he has not lived up to that bill yet..

I think he will ...but were trying to win games..NOW...so if he needs more work in practice on how to use the O-Line ..let P.T... Ivory and Sproles carry the load..save him for the playoffs..

hey monday morning QB.....where were you when ingram was bursting through the colts defense?

ivory had 18 yards against the rams......you call that production?

come on man....you know nobody is going to get anything going with only 10 touches a game....give it a rest

That was his first game back...and the O-Line was not there that day..they missed the plane...the next week..he led the team in rushing with 67..and as you say.. we didn't run the ball against the rams either..so his point does have some merit..

67 yards on 15 carries......how many times has ingram been given 15 of anything?

you cant see production if you're not going to give a player the opportunity

a first round pick deserves more than 8 carries. when he gets over 10 carries a game his ypc average skyrockets

otherwise he was just an expensive short yardage guy

Maybe he should do sprints up and down the sideline before he gets put in... Based upon your logic, Canton.

67/15 = 4.something.

When Ingram shows up 4.something, he'll see the ball more.

Alaska

I think if Ingram was getting more he would get more..

You could be onto something there...that's what scares me..I mean that was the knock on Bush in some ways ...and he has more yards on a losing team this year...

A sort of circular truth there.

Ingram is a rookie, and I don't think running backs will ever put up massive yards as a Saints while Payton is coach. Their role is to support the passing game.

Going into the game Atlanta had a good run defense and their secondary was "suspect" at best. Payton and Brees were going to throw all day long.

There's just isn't enough info for me to know whether he's a "bust" "expensive pick" "second coming of Deuce" etc. We're about to hit the most important stretch of the season. Let's see what happens.

As for Ivory - bs story or not, injury or no injury, I want to see him in uniform and playing for consecutive games through the end of the season before I make a judgement about him.

Nothing like a good conspiracy theory. :-)

I don't think Payton favors his draft picks over players who perform.
Sincerely,
Antonio Pittman

I am not ragging on him per se, but it is pretty obvious that ivory looks world-beater GREAT against teams that are especially weak against the run (like when he ran completely wild all over the Tampa Bay defense a year ago) and then he distinctly looks kinda not-as-good against teams that are more stout against the run, like the Atlanta game where he fumbled and went out with an injury. It's why he always looks so good in preseason too. But put him against a defense like the Steelers or Rams (when the Rams were playing a really physical game) and he looks not nearly as insanely good as people sometimes seem to believe he is, based on people's reactions to the occasional preseason games where he runs absolutely wild like a Tasmanian devil. He is pretty good but maybe not THAT good.

I think it was a setup -- they had no intention of running much against Atlanta, and all that talk at the podium during the week about "we've got to really work to establish the run" was just a smokescreen. I sure fell for it.

Would any other backs run wild?...he ran for 67 against Tampa this year..and was part of our best output this year running the ball..

I have a feeling if Ivory was a first round pick..he would be liked more...just a hunch..

Ya know, until our run blocking improves which I don't think its going to this season, none of our backs are going to be very effective. Ivory plays good but he can't stay healthy, PT runs hard too. Ingram isn't doing much so far imo, and at this point in the season you can't chalk it up to being a rookie anymore.

The irony is most of these folks raggin' on a lack of production in Ingram followed Bush thorughout his career here and cried like baby girls when he was released. Ingram is a rookie...not one of our backs this season has had an opportunity to be a showcase runner. Bush had opportunities and never could perform as a showcase runner. They are rotating among 3-4 rb's no one will get big production. The reason Sproles is getting the production is he is the most versatile, followed by PT. The most important stat to look at when there are sooo many rb's sharing the workload is yards per carry, total rushing yards in a rotation such as this it is not a telling stat. Also, as I previously stated Sproles and PT contribute in receiving yards, not sure but I do not recall Ivory catching a pass. Everyone knows Ingram is a north-south runner and probably never going to be a receiving back. I would say Ivory is the 4th back as it should be. In a previous thread I posted regarding the injury plagued football career Ivory has had including his college career. I like all of our backs and I like the fact we have the best backfield in the NFL but I refuse to give Ivory mad props when they aren't deserved.

I love you Ivory fans.

The smallest amount of production from him and he's "the greatest". :rolleyes:

No way!!!! Cmon!! Lmao!

Subguy..i think we just want to see more of Ingram...Bush on a losing team has more yards rushing so far..

I like Ingram i mean dam he was a 1 one pick...but the young man has to step up...or if not... then whats wrong with Ivory getting some more time...he has produced for us...why not let him till Ingram gets the speed of thr NFL down...we only have some much time to dabble around with him..Ingram had off season with the team..preseason and now all this year...Im not giving up on him yet....but i dont think we have to when we have Ivory and P.T to handle most of the tough yards...If Ivory gets hurt then so be it..but we know he will get yards...and yes if Bush can be subjected to criticism then so can Ingram...Remember Reggie was lights out his rookie season...there was nobody *****in then...

I think they are saving Ivory for the giants game. He should be more than ready. Ingram will be fine he is running where he is told to run,his vision and production will come. As far as Ivory he also runs where he is told,just with authority.

That would be Ingram...93 for 340

Ivory 158 for 801..there chief...lol...fixed it for ya

I may question the wisdom of GW sometimes - BUT I tend to trust SP. He, normally, makes the right decision.

We can wish or hope yardage on Ingram, but until he puts out either in YPC or total yards we are doing nothing more than wishing.

I WANT Ingram to be a great runner. But all my wanting won't make it happen.

As far as Ivory; well, there are highlight videos of him in action. Self-explanatory. If he can't stay healthy then we will have to move him off the active squad, BUT we can't wish health on him either.

One is proven. One is not yet proven. Simple as that.

Alaska

Sorry Alaska..had to fix it for you..:D

not giving a rookie running back a chance to prove himself while complimenting a guy that took all the carries for us for 4 games last season is a bit biased IMO

ingram has not had the luxury of taking all our carries.....chris ivory was our only healthy back for several weeks last season and his numbers reflect that

if anybody in the NFL had to pick between the 2 i guarantee they'd all pick ingram......impatient fans seem to be the only ones not giving him time to produce

Ivory has dealt with health issues from jump. He's even talked about it himself, in depth. Out of football, on PUP, watching us draft Ingram and sitting on the sidelines all this time... Does not surprise me one single bit that he tweaked his hammy, and there is no way in hell Payton sits him for any other reason.

It's foolish to think otherwise. I just hope it isn't severe, because I'm ready to see him explode like last year, and help get us back in balance, and poised for another Superbowl run.

I think you need to fix that to this year's stats to make it fair though Strato.
Ivory 21 for 85. Look I love Ivory too but you have to take into consideration what the situations are when the players enter the game. How many 1st down carries has Ingram had? 95% of the time he comes in on short yardage situations and he gets the yards needed to move the chains except for maybe twice and one was the first game against the Packers when everybody and their brother knew we were going to run with the personnel that came out on the field. Just about every NFL defenses can make a stop when they know what is coming, look at Sunday against the Failclowns. You think they are ready to put Jaquizz Rogers in front of Turner after Turner was stopped on 4th and inches? If all you do is run the ball when Ingram is in there it will be tougher for him to average 4 yards a pop. PT ran well because he is also one of the best screen RB's in the league and teams can't always play the run with him in the backfield. If we don't mix it up it will always be tough for us to have success no matter who is in the backfield. Our longest run is from Sproles why? Because when he is in there teams expect us to pass the ball the majority of the time and we catch them off guard. If we ran the ball more out of spread formation and shotgun with Ingram or with any of the RB's I think we would have more success. I know we will always be a passing team but it would be nice to take some pressure off of Drew and run the ball 30 times a game. We are in a good situation this year with 4 good active RB's and a pretty decent 5th choice in Bell if he is ever needed and we need to keep them all healthy and involved because it looks like we will end up with the 3rd seed and have to play in the snow to reach our goal and we will need to run the ball to do that but we also need to mix it up and not be predictable when we do run it.

John i guess some want Ivory to get more playing time and some Ingram...its not a that big of a deal..I think both are good backs one just seems more NFL ready that's all...and we are trying to win games..status has nothing to do with it..just results.

The sooner Ivory gets more touches the better our run game will be..Ingram will good and maybe even great ...but right now he seems to be a looking more like a rookie than Ivory does..i want to see some good 150 plus games like against Tampa...it makes my nerves feel a lot better..if anyone thinks im hating on Ingram your dead wrong..but sometimes you have to face facts ...and choose the player that will give you results...i mean we are trying to make it to the superbowl..Ivory led us to the playoffs last year...

Our D let us down..lets be glad that we are passionate about this topic...and that we have both..were going to need them down the stretch..

And don't forget about the factor back P.T...he is the most rounded back we have..

If yu think about it this a nice problem to have..

Hey, whats going to be interesting is after the bye week all of our backs will be healthy and if Payton dresses all 4 we may get to see who really is who. The Giants have a pretty good run D, lets see where it goes after that game. I love this sh!t!!!!!!!!!!!!

What makes you think all our backs will be healthy? When have we ever received any straightforward reporting when it comes to the health of our players?

Payton hasn't even fully admitted that Vilma had knee surgery.

Glad we have the problem of too many RB's. Guess the O-line is to blame for the lack of a running game thus far. Ingram got my attention late in the fourth against Atlanta when he got got hammered in the backfield from a missed block and HELD on to the ball. And again in OT when when he picked up 6 setting us up for the winning FG. Ivory has a tendency to put the ball on the turf. Can't really say who is better or more valuable at this point. Ingram needs to find his lanes quicker and learn to alter his path when the lane closes, he seems to bounce of the O-lines backs alot.

You know this is a problem that we can address at our next conference.........meanwhile, let's take a week or two off to think about it.

This sure does beat debating the merits of DeShawn Wynn versus Julius Jones, I'll give you guys that much!

watch these videos then blame the line for a lack of running game. we are a good running team and its mostly because of our offensive line. anybody that thinks we cant run the ball doesnt know what they are talking about

btw these videos arent mine. they were posted by someone else on everybody's other favorite site

running game 1 - YouTube


itwins - YouTube

Shades of...

well...

SHADE!

No disrespect, Canton, but that was agonizing. I'm not 'beefing' you, just calling it like I see it.

I want a dominant running game with the stable we have.

Alaska

If our line could run block worth a damn from one play to the next we'd have one.

ingram is better than Reggie at hittin the hole, so Im happy. ...Hes not the next Emmit Smith or anything, but dang, its his first year, cmon, was he supposed to break a thousand while sharing the rock with three others?

If Ingram was running behind the kind of line Emmit was running behind things would be different. Emmit wasn't running in to too many people in the backfield like Ingram has.

watch the videos i posted......3 and 4 yards a pop is about as dominant as you can get when you only hand the ball off 20 times a game

The thing I noticed in the videos and granted I didn't watch all of it is that when we had the running success in the early part of the season, we were running the ball with 4 receiver sets and out of the gun. Defenses have to respect the pass when in those formations. Lately we have just been trying to run out of strictly power run formations which the defense reads and loads up the box. Maybe it was because of Payton's injury and Carmichael calling the plays but we need to go back to that style of play calling and keep defenses guessing. I know I've said this many of times now and even in a post earlier this morning but those videos you posted backs me up on this.