When they were going through the starters and got to our LBs my stomach turned. Shanle, Vilma and Dunbar. Really? The same ineffective group as last year. I like all of those guys but that has to be the bottom of the totem pole for a starting LB line up in the league.

I especially hate saying that about Vilma. He's one of my favorites Saints but the man just can't do it physically anymore and his knee is only going to get worse. Like some one else said, Dunbar should be the new MLB. He's very good at that position but is just a plain bad OLB. i think he could be a Pro-Bowler playing the Mike. And Shanle is just done.

Porter is worth keeping if he's is made a nickle CB. Robinson definitely out played him.

And to get off subject just a little bit, I don't understand why our young prospects on defense can't seem to get on the field like they do on offense. Is it Gregg Williams or are they just not any good?

And don't forget, he was the #1 rated MLB in the draft.

lets see who we can keep. i agree youth is needed.

But i have to defend him a bit here. That whole side of the defense has been out of whack all season.

Ellis
Smith
Shanle

I like what i saw out of Jordan. he needs to stop worrying about flags and just level the QB. Rookie hesitation hurt his play.

That is his natural position and his size, weight, and speed makes him perfect. I'm tired of the light weight lb's, I want some heavier thumpers with speed.

Im glad greg williams is leaving. he teaches turnovers and not basics and gives up too many big plays. he's a me first dude and his own ego costed us another superbowl. he constantly gets out coached and loses in the ultimate chess match. HIS TIME HAS COME.......

Anybody else notice the game #50 had for the Pats last night. Ultimately we got nothing for him.

He's been one of their only playmakers on defense all year. Good call, GW.

I wouldn't stop with the Defensive Coordinator...

Whoever or however the evaluation process on talent and drafting the first and second round picks needs to be - corrected; something is terribly wrong...

Think it's long overdue to blow this Defense up and start over...

Everything will need to be on the table...

But looking at what is coming up and where we are...there are going to be some gone pecans...

I firmly believe its GW. I have always thought that they put more credence in the years played and it was validated with the whole Kreutz ordeal. Hopefully we will have a new look on D next year and not just when we get off the bus.

As much as you guys sit here and play GM and bash Shanle every game, maybe you guys need to apply for the position of DC when it comes open. Alright I'll agree Shanle has slowed down, he's not the same LB he once was, but he is a good leader.

Your probably right he might make a good back up, unfortunately you guys all want to have your cake and eat it too. There might be an upgrade for Shanle out there, but we either can't afford it or when they come in here the coaches don't think they are all that great. Just watch, this year they will draft an OLB, Shanle will give him a run, this might finally be the year is overtaken who knows.

BUT YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, THAT LAST PLAY WASN'T AS MUCH SHANLES FAULT AS IT WAS THAT DUMBASS Greg Williams and Roman Harper. Why the hell would you put the LBs in zone coverage that close to the goal line when Vernon Davis the Tight End is out having a career day? Roman should have been there to pick up too. Stupid play, but the turnovers hurt worse.

No....that was not on Shanle, but how was that play on Roman Harper??? Huh????

1 Gw
2 vilma
3 w. smith
4 Bushrod can be a backup..not a starter
5 roby

I think the problem is turnovers. If we win in San Fran, this even wouldn't be a discussion.

Don't give up on Jenkins. Remember, He was Probowl worthy last year. GW is the one I would lose off of the defense. Brown and Bushrod will be OK at OT. Center is a bit of a concern. LB and Center needs to be our off season push.

bushrod will be ok if he is second string...or gets a TE or RB to help him on every play...Center needs a little time to develop...this is a mindf*** of an offense and he is young plus he had no offseason and wasnt even our starter at first...and drew was still able to set all kind of records...He will develop alot by next year with a whole off-season to learn...i thought he did ok physically but there seamed to be missed assignments up the middle

Not Shanle's fault??? Guess what..watch the video and look who is standing there confused.

Shanle - Flatfooted

HE WAS PLAYING THE ALEX SMITH RUN!!!!! lol

Some of...most of these posts are ridiculous. Here's what I'd do this offseason.

1. Re-sign Brees
2. Tag Nicks
3. Try to get Colston back at a reasonable price.
4. Cut Henderson and try to get Meachem back at a reasonable price.
5. Will Smith takes a pay cut or hits the road.
6. Ellis, I believe, is a free agent. He didn't have a great year, but if we get him for the right price it would be hard to do much better.
7. We've needed to replace Shanle for a couple of years now. I think we can do that in the second round with Hightower, but Wilson/Casillas are athletic, acceptable, and have upside. Dunbar also played well.
8. Porter is a luxury, but I would like to have him back at the right price. I expect Johnny Patrick to be much improved next season.
9. Franklin's contract has expired, but Rogers has one more year. I'd hold off on getting rid of him until we had a quality replacement.

DRAFT: 2. Hightower 3. Crick 4. Wolfe 4. Fleener...and so on.

Don't think Hightower will be on the board when we pick.

SCOTT MUTHERF*&KING SHANLE AND JORDAN. JORDAN HASN'T DONE S*&T ALL YEAR FOR A FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK. I THING THE SAINTS WASTED TWO PICK BECAUSE IVORY RUNS BETTER THAN INGRAM. I KNOW THESE GUYS JORDAN AND INGRAM ARE YOUNG BUT THEY DIDN'T SHOW ME NOTHING.

LOL...no need to get hostile. We just shootin the chit. MOST of us know Shanle is toast but I am not gonna bail out on Ingram just yet. IMO the only reason Ivory was even here this year was because we are not paying him squat. I think Ingram can fill the Ivory role if we just give him more than a rookie season.

As far as Jordan, c'mon get real! It's his rookie year in a crazy man's scheme. He isn't on the field every snap. When he is in, especially as of late, he is making plays. Give him a chance.

@CharityMike @Danno, do you know what a zone defense is? He was totally playing zone and when Davis got past him, he was suppose to be picked up by Roman Harper, Harper was playing out of position. Still the biggest error was on GW, why play zone in the redzone on the most crucial part of the game when Vernon Davis has been killing you all day?

Zone? Naw, never heard of it.:rolleyes:

It will be cutting it close, but I heard Kiper say the other day that he saw him going in the second or third round. That puts us in the hunt.

And guys, lay off Bushrod. He made the Pro bowl and we have him for very little in terms of LT money. I know the reason he's getting trashed is because Justin Smith, one of the best d-linemen in the league, abused him on a bull rush you want him gone. Some of you guys have memories that are just too short. He had a good season and is a good player. Same goes for Jenkins, Harper, and Robinson. Anyone we bring in, considering our cap situation, will be a downgrade.

Agreed. Scott and GW would be my choice on exits. Bushrod should of got ALOT more help then what he did. Made no sense why there was so little chipping before leaving the backfield by our rbs

LMAO..yeah me too.

Stupid us for thinking he is standing at the 10 yard line and just stands there flat footed watching the play happen. Guess we are just to dumb to think that Vernon Davis was there entire passing game all day and that maybe chances are they are going to try to get him the ball.

Also..look at Vilma after the catch. Look at the video again. Who is he staring at in disbelief?

I WANT 2 DT"s TO PUSH THE MIDDLE, CRASHING THE POCKET, ALLOWING THE DE's TO TURN THE CORNER AND SACK THE QB. OR BLITZ A LINEBACKER . MAN, I WANT MISTER COBBLES AND 1 MORE BAD A$$ DT, YES CAP LOCK IS ON.

good call mardigras.
i was saying that if shanle wonders to the qbs eyes like they are coached he could have possibly knocked down that ball or even picked off that common lob to davis. its something to consider. is it our players or the way g.w. warbled there talent, like jenkins who has regressed. they say start at the top and that saying is well warranted.

You are aware that Bushrod is the highest payed O-linemen in the Saints in 2012? He is making more than f.e. Evans, who is considered one of the best guards in the league -> Evans 2012 = ~4.7M vs. Bushrod 2012 = ~6.25M.

In terms of players I wouldn't mind seeing the Saints let go are, and I'm looking at them from the value standpoint as in salary vs performance:

Smith: just like it has been mentioned already he is making too much money for the performances he has put in, but if he is willing to restructure his contract he might be very good value. Also, the emergence of Gallette this year and being optimistic about Romeus stepping up next season - the Saints might have a good group of young versatile DTs with Jordan, Gallette, Romeus & maybe a draft pick (also Charleston is a good value back-up).

Vilma: I really like him as an individual, player and as a leader on the field, but it seems that he has struck a wall with his physical endurance... and while I understand the issues with his knees this past season - who's to say it'll get any better in the future? I would've liked the Saints to have gone after Paul Posluszny last FA period, because he would be what I think the Saints need as a MLB with almost the same salary as Vilma (6.6M vs 7M). Otherwise, the LB group isn't as bad as it could be - Wilson , Dunbar, Casillas, Humber and Bussey are all young promising LBs, who could blossom under the right DC f.e. Spags or Del Rio , both with LB coach backgrounds.

Shanle: I mean he wouldn't be unacceptable as a back-up, but with a 2M contract I think it would be financially better to get rid of him for picks if possible.

Ellis: I have been defending him on many threads during this past season, but I think the time has come to see him leave the black & gold. He'll be making over 6M next season after which he becomes an UFA, so if some team would be willing to make a trade for him it might be a good time to pull the trigger. But, if he would be willing to restructure his contract like Smith, he might be good value in the DT rotation. Also, maybe Mitch "Mama's Boy" King can step up to the next level this coming season along with my personal favorite Tom Johnson making Ellis even more expendable.

Rogers: didn't get things going the whole season long, and when looking at his career stats - he has only had a couple of really good seasons and all of those were during contract years, and that alone tells me this guy has a problem with his attitude towards competitiveness. Now this is no surprise and was something what we debated about during the pre-season, but I guess the thinking was that GW would be able to whip him into a beast in NO... unfortunately that never materialized. I would much rather see Franklin signed to a new contract and after the lackluster season he had - he might be willing to sign for about 2M/year, and with that price tag he'd be good value in the DT rotation.

Meachem: I think that RM is a good WR and if he'd be willing to sign for about the same as he made this season (1.5-2.5M/year) I'd like to see the Saints sign him and maybe trade away Henderson, who only has 1 more year left in his contract for 3.5M. Although, I doubt Meachem will want to sign for that "little" money in which case he becomes an unnecessary signing for the Saints. Depending on how much Colston wants to stay in NO, I think he would be a "no brainer" as a signing. If he wants about the same as f.e. Roddy White with 6.5M/year, I think the Saints should sign him, but if he wants Top 5 WR money then the Saints should let him go after that money on the FA market.

Porter & Greer: I'm not saying both of them are expendable or even that it would be wise to let both of them go, but there are some issues with both of them. Porter is an UFA, so his price tag might be too much to make his re-signing a viable option in regards to what he brings to the field if this season is anything to go by. I'd like for the Saints to keep Greer, but he is another player entering his last season before becoming an UFA and he will be making around 6M in 2012, so this might be the last chance to get something in return for him in a trade. Robinson is someone who the Saints should definitely keep, because he will only become better and has improved steadily, which makes me wonder why some of you want him gone?!

Of course it'll all depend a lot on what the new DC will want do with the Saints' defense and, therefore, there might be some surprises in store for all us when it comes to the Saints' roster for the 2012 season.

I'd have no issues giving Meachem a contract similar to what Devery and Lance are making... especially if we let Colston walk.

Good stuff, but I disagree with the trading parts. I can't see many of the players you suggested trading bringing us any picks at all.

Shanle wouldn't net us a 7th

Ellis makes way too much for anyone to give us picks AND take on that salary.

Henderson might net us a late round pick, but why not keep him? He's not exactly breaking the bank. Renegotiate a long term deal with Devery and Meachem both. We could reduce the cap hit and stay stocked at WR.

That would then mean something between 3.5M and 4.5M, which would probably make signing Colston improbable, and I wonder if Meachem - as a former 1st rounder - has some illusions of grandeur and, therefore, will want more money.



You're right, but one can always dream.

In any case, many of those players need their contracts to be restructured to be lower or more performance based in nature with various bonuses. If that isn't possible the Saints might look toward other teams, who might want to trade for them in player for player basis for similar type of contracts, but for players that would better match what the new DC wants to do with the Saints' defense.

reading these posts i had a thought

Colston is in year 6...he has had a couple injuries and has take ALOT of big hits...him saying he will not take a "hometown discount" makes me think he may be thinking of 1 BIG payday and then a retirement on his own terms while he can still function physically(ala baryy sanders)...He has a SB ring already and is a very smart man...what do you think?

BUSHROD MAKES MORE MONEY THAN EVANS BECAUSE BUSHROD IS A PRO BOWL LEFT TACKLE AND EVANS, though the best guard in the league, IS STILL JUST A GUARD! Left tackles make more. Who are we going to replace our reasonably price pro bowl tackle with? A 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round shot in the dark? We're trying to win now. When the Brees window closes...this success thing is over.

I get your point, but I'm not sure you get my point... Of course left tackles are paid more than guards, but in relative terms Evans is the highest paid guard in the league (last time I checked) just about making the list of Top 100 highest paid players in the NFL.

Now do you honestly think that Bushrod deserves to be paid almost a third more than Evans for his services regardless of the position he plays and, furthermore, saying that the Saints are paying him very little in terms of left tackle money?

Which one is more important to the Saints' O-Line in your opinion... both protection and blocking-wise?

Technically Bushrod makes more money than Evans... but it's only because of the way his contract is structured. Usually when you give a large signing bonus, the first couple years of the contract carries a lower base salary. Don't be mistaken... Evans makes the big dollars. NFL contracts are tied into guaranteed money and signing bonuses, not a bunch of f aux money players won't see.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but I am only talking about in relation to the 2012 salary and the cap hits of these players, because we have no way of knowing how the salary budgets will develop in the future making the relative evaluations of those high pay latter seasons virtually impossible at this time.

been saying this for years. our guys are too "nice"

Evans is a better player and more important than Bushrod and should be paid more, but the best players in the league aren't necessarily the highest paid and it's because of the position they play. And I'll continue to say that Bushrod is good value at his current price, only because of the position he plays.

I'm also not sure why we're spending so much time talking about Bushrod. A lot of people were trashing him and want him gone. That's just an awful idea.