Spags better than who?

Danno · 01-25-2012, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Before taking over in St. Louis, Spagnuolo had top 10 defenses with the Giants in the 2007 and 2008 seasons. His 2007 defense led the NFL with 53 sacks and the 2008 unit was sixth in the league with 42.

In the Giants’ 2008 Super Bowl triumph over New England, their defense sacked Tom Brady five times and the Patriots, who had led the NFL with an average of 36.8 points per game, to only 14 points.

Before joining the Giants, Spagnuolo was a defensive assistant in Philadelphia from 1999-2006. He coached Pro Bowl players including Brian Dawkins and Lito Sheppard, and helped Philadelphia field a 10th-ranked defense in the 2004 season, when the Eagles made it to the Super Bowl before falling to New England.

HC is far more different than being a DC. Some people aren't made to be HC's. I truely believe that. Some people are good at one thing not 100.
Oh and the D that is going to the SB this year was one that Spags built.

Yeah, basically what I said but chock full o' facts and stats and stuff.

SaintsBro · 01-25-2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Marlboro Man

I'd like someone to explain to me, how, all of a sudden, coach Spagnola is going to take these same players and make them become all pro linemen and get pressure with just the front 4.

Having said that, let's say we DO win the Super Bowl next year. How long do you think Spags stays? I'd say we had better be looking for his replacement today as well. Additionally, what do you think the effect on the players would be if we're changing DC's every year to every 3 years?

I think the optimistic answer to your first question, lies in this...I think it's sort of a three year cycle type deal... Gibbs came with Payton in 2006....result: NFC Championship appearance in the first year. Williams came in 2009...result: Super Bowl win in his first year, then two years of defensive regression, sort of eerily similar to what happened with Gibbs. There's no question that with the exception of Sharper and maybe one or two guys I'm forgetting about right now, Williams came in and had great success with the same basic people, that Gibbs was faltering with in 2008. They looked like a totally different defense out there! But both Gibbs and Williams ended up going OUT with kind of the same storyline or rap, that Drew and the O were AMAZING but the D was giving up big plays and losing games at end.

That's why I'm optimistic and hopeful it will be an instant improvement with Spags -- it's happened that way twice already for the Saints under Sean Payton. Yeah they need a few upgrades, but I'm optimistic the difference will be night and day. Partially because for the first half of the year, teams will have no film to study and NO IDEA what to expect defensively when they line up and face us. Just like 2006 and 2009!

I don't worry about how long Spags will stay here, the guy hasn't even called a single defensive snap yet for the Saints. Worry about that later, after success.

Third, I've said this before in other threads, the effect on the players will be GOOD rather than bad -- that they will want to bust their rumps to impress the new DC, to avoid being cut, or traded to some losing team in Siberia. They will be inspired that the new DC can fix the problems from last year, and put them in positions to win games. I think that is precisely what happened to some degree in 2006 and 2009. That's why I'm optimistic.

Mardigras9 · 01-25-2012, 10:55 AM

"In the Giants’ 2008 Super Bowl triumph over New England, their defense sacked Tom Brady five times and the Patriots, who had led the NFL with an average of 36.8 points per game, to only 14 points."

As DC with the Giants, they did this to the league MVP in the biggest game of the year. And I totally agree GW had run his course.

Euphoria · 01-25-2012, 11:05 AM

I don't care how long he stays... this is buisness. Win or go home.

I don't fault Sean or Loomis for letting him walk. I don't care how it looks but Saints wasn't offering him a contract is more or less like getting fired. You're not coming back.

If Sean or Loomis doesn't move on from GW then they would end up on the chopping block as for as I am concern. Look if there is a reason you are having problems or not getting to the next level then fix it and they did... GW is gone. Smart move for their careers. We have 2-3 years before this ride is over and we better win now.

alleycat_126 · 01-25-2012, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

I don't care how long he stays... this is buisness. Win or go home.

I don't fault Sean or Loomis for letting him walk. I don't care how it looks but Saints wasn't offering him a contract is more or less like getting fired. You're not coming back.

If Sean or Loomis doesn't move on from GW then they would end up on the chopping block as for as I am concern. Look if there is a reason you are having problems or not getting to the next level then fix it and they did... GW is gone. Smart move for their careers. We have 2-3 years before this ride is over and we better win now.

Couldnt have said it better its win big now time, drew is in his prime theres no way in hell we go into new york and win another sb. Its best we get this one here. Btw its not exactly gonna be the same talent. I dont see will smith staying on unless he takes a paycut.greg romeus will probably win that battle. Martez wilson will more than likely start replacing scott shanle full time. We do have draft picks to build with and bringing drew, colston, and nicks back may clear up some room for us to make a few moves during free agency.

Rugby Saint II · 01-25-2012, 02:50 PM

GW's first year here we went all defense in the draft so that he could implement his plans with his selections. I anticipate a draft again to reflect the DCs game planning. Here we go again.

SAINTstunna · 01-25-2012, 03:16 PM

Some guys are great at doing 1 thing (singletary to linebacker coach) and not overseeing a whole team. He has a proven record at DC and failed as a head coach. This doesn't mean he will never excel at being a head coach but for right now he can just take a step back and win a few SUPER BOWLS as defensive coordinator of your NEW ORLEANS SAINTS!!!!!!!!! WHO DATT!!!!!!!!!!!11

W. Kovacs · 01-25-2012, 10:39 PM

Even as a head coach, he joined a Rams team that was just plain awful. They had a pretty solid 2010 season and many people thought they'd do even better this year.

Then, they were decimated by injuries and it became painfully obvious that, even before they lost a bunch of players for the year, their QB had no one to throw the ball to.

If you want proof of how good his D was when they actually had some healthy players that weren't exhausted from being on the field for about 40 minutes/game, watch the game they played against us...

To do the job he did in St. Louis with the cast of characters he had, I think, does more to prove he's a good coach than to disprove it...

SloMotion · 01-26-2012, 07:25 AM

Don't forget the 'motivation' factor, some coaches inspire, some don't ... you seen it with Harbaugh in SFran and Ryan in New York . Spags is a 'Harbaugh', though maybe not so 'out there', and will do the same for the Saints defense, IMO.

skymike · 01-26-2012, 07:19 PM

I guess think Wade Phillips... He didnt burn up the world as a head coach, but he kicks azz as a DC.

01-25-2012, 09:17 AM	#11
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Originally Posted by Euphoria Before taking over in St. Louis, Spagnuolo had top 10 defenses with the Giants in the 2007 and 2008 seasons. His 2007 defense led the NFL with 53 sacks and the 2008 unit was sixth in the league with 42. In the Giants’ 2008 Super Bowl triumph over New England, their defense sacked Tom Brady five times and the Patriots, who had led the NFL with an average of 36.8 points per game, to only 14 points. Before joining the Giants, Spagnuolo was a defensive assistant in Philadelphia from 1999-2006. He coached Pro Bowl players including Brian Dawkins and Lito Sheppard, and helped Philadelphia field a 10th-ranked defense in the 2004 season, when the Eagles made it to the Super Bowl before falling to New England. HC is far more different than being a DC. Some people aren't made to be HC's. I truely believe that. Some people are good at one thing not 100. Oh and the D that is going to the SB this year was one that Spags built. Yeah, basically what I said but chock full o' facts and stats and stuff. W. Kovacs likes this.

01-25-2012, 10:35 AM	#12
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by Marlboro Man I'd like someone to explain to me, how, all of a sudden, coach Spagnola is going to take these same players and make them become all pro linemen and get pressure with just the front 4. Having said that, let's say we DO win the Super Bowl next year. How long do you think Spags stays? I'd say we had better be looking for his replacement today as well. Additionally, what do you think the effect on the players would be if we're changing DC's every year to every 3 years? I think the optimistic answer to your first question, lies in this...I think it's sort of a three year cycle type deal... Gibbs came with Payton in 2006....result: NFC Championship appearance in the first year. Williams came in 2009...result: Super Bowl win in his first year, then two years of defensive regression, sort of eerily similar to what happened with Gibbs. There's no question that with the exception of Sharper and maybe one or two guys I'm forgetting about right now, Williams came in and had great success with the same basic people, that Gibbs was faltering with in 2008. They looked like a totally different defense out there! But both Gibbs and Williams ended up going OUT with kind of the same storyline or rap, that Drew and the O were AMAZING but the D was giving up big plays and losing games at end. That's why I'm optimistic and hopeful it will be an instant improvement with Spags -- it's happened that way twice already for the Saints under Sean Payton. Yeah they need a few upgrades, but I'm optimistic the difference will be night and day. Partially because for the first half of the year, teams will have no film to study and NO IDEA what to expect defensively when they line up and face us. Just like 2006 and 2009! I don't worry about how long Spags will stay here, the guy hasn't even called a single defensive snap yet for the Saints. Worry about that later, after success. Third, I've said this before in other threads, the effect on the players will be GOOD rather than bad -- that they will want to bust their rumps to impress the new DC, to avoid being cut, or traded to some losing team in Siberia. They will be inspired that the new DC can fix the problems from last year, and put them in positions to win games. I think that is precisely what happened to some degree in 2006 and 2009. That's why I'm optimistic. jnormand, Belair57 and AlaskaSaints like this.

01-25-2012, 11:05 AM	#14
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	I don't care how long he stays... this is buisness. Win or go home. I don't fault Sean or Loomis for letting him walk. I don't care how it looks but Saints wasn't offering him a contract is more or less like getting fired. You're not coming back. If Sean or Loomis doesn't move on from GW then they would end up on the chopping block as for as I am concern. Look if there is a reason you are having problems or not getting to the next level then fix it and they did... GW is gone. Smart move for their careers. We have 2-3 years before this ride is over and we better win now. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	E U P H O R I A

01-25-2012, 12:48 PM	#15
alleycat_126 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Katy, Tx a suburb of Houston Posts: 2,089	Originally Posted by Euphoria I don't care how long he stays... this is buisness. Win or go home. I don't fault Sean or Loomis for letting him walk. I don't care how it looks but Saints wasn't offering him a contract is more or less like getting fired. You're not coming back. If Sean or Loomis doesn't move on from GW then they would end up on the chopping block as for as I am concern. Look if there is a reason you are having problems or not getting to the next level then fix it and they did... GW is gone. Smart move for their careers. We have 2-3 years before this ride is over and we better win now. Couldnt have said it better its win big now time, drew is in his prime theres no way in hell we go into new york and win another sb. Its best we get this one here. Btw its not exactly gonna be the same talent. I dont see will smith staying on unless he takes a paycut.greg romeus will probably win that battle. Martez wilson will more than likely start replacing scott shanle full time. We do have draft picks to build with and bringing drew, colston, and nicks back may clear up some room for us to make a few moves during free agency.

01-25-2012, 02:50 PM	#16
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	GW's first year here we went all defense in the draft so that he could implement his plans with his selections. I anticipate a draft again to reflect the DCs game planning. Here we go again. Beastmode likes this.

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01-25-2012, 10:55 AM	#13
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	"In the Giants’ 2008 Super Bowl triumph over New England, their defense sacked Tom Brady five times and the Patriots, who had led the NFL with an average of 36.8 points per game, to only 14 points." As DC with the Giants, they did this to the league MVP in the biggest game of the year. And I totally agree GW had run his course.

01-25-2012, 03:16 PM	#17
SAINTstunna 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: SACRAMENTO, CA Posts: 249 Blog Entries: 9	Some guys are great at doing 1 thing (singletary to linebacker coach) and not overseeing a whole team. He has a proven record at DC and failed as a head coach. This doesn't mean he will never excel at being a head coach but for right now he can just take a step back and win a few SUPER BOWLS as defensive coordinator of your NEW ORLEANS SAINTS!!!!!!!!! WHO DATT!!!!!!!!!!!11

01-25-2012, 10:39 PM	#18
W. Kovacs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 514	Even as a head coach, he joined a Rams team that was just plain awful. They had a pretty solid 2010 season and many people thought they'd do even better this year. Then, they were decimated by injuries and it became painfully obvious that, even before they lost a bunch of players for the year, their QB had no one to throw the ball to. If you want proof of how good his D was when they actually had some healthy players that weren't exhausted from being on the field for about 40 minutes/game, watch the game they played against us... To do the job he did in St. Louis with the cast of characters he had, I think, does more to prove he's a good coach than to disprove it... dizzle88 and FinSaint like this.

01-26-2012, 07:25 AM	#19
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Don't forget the 'motivation' factor, some coaches inspire, some don't ... you seen it with Harbaugh in SFran and Ryan in New York . Spags is a 'Harbaugh', though maybe not so 'out there', and will do the same for the Saints defense, IMO.

01-26-2012, 07:19 PM	#20
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,089	I guess think Wade Phillips... He didnt burn up the world as a head coach, but he kicks azz as a DC. nicebush25 and SloMotion like this.

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