You be spags, fix our defense!!!!

Danno · 02-04-2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Strong Safety

Jenkins and Harper Battle royale - the winner will be made better - savings on loser released/traded would be a plus; Amaya didn't look that bad! LaRon Landry wildest dreams - likely tagged...

Keeping Harper will cost us about 7 million for 2012.

Cutting or trading Harper will cost us 17 million for 2012, and we'd have to sign his replacement, which would be at least another 4 million for a comparable player.

I'm thinking we keep him.

Rugby Saint II · 02-03-2012, 11:49 PM

Fix the defense.............alright let's get some duct tape and get started.

hagan714 · 02-04-2012, 01:12 AM

major changes on defense? nope i am not looking for any real major changes.

I am looking to see better depth added to the group as a whole.

Cameron Jordan is a should be solid strong side DE. Wilson at SLB I love especially with the TE playing now. Granted both are work in progress but i do like what i saw in 2011.

WLB is an interesting situation. Wilson swing to WLB? he has the speed. Who goes to SLB? Yet another reason to like Wilson. He allows us to draft or go after a FA to upgrade either position,

OLB is the big move i think the saints MAY make.

Stephen Tulloch wlb nice pick

but i am looking at players like

Jo-Lonn Dunbar, OLB, Saints
Wesley Woodyard, OLB, Broncos

for a look see
Patrick Bailey, OLB, Titans

DE and DT can be improved with the draft or mid level FA.

Jason Jones, DT, Titans
Nate Collins, DT, Jaguars

Secondary? thats the tough area.

Tracy Porter, CB, Saints
William Middleton, CB, Jaguars

Safety
Dwight Lowery, CB/SS/FS, Jaguars. Age: 26

Most of the yardage given up by the saints in running downs was through the back door. cut back and the saints over play killed them over and over again.

! OLB and resign the bulk of the line and draft good depth is about all i see happening this year on the defensive side of the ball

TACKLING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RockyMountainSaint · 02-04-2012, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

Most of the yardage given up by the saints in running downs was through the back door. cut back and the saints over play killed them over and over again.

TACKLING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^

alleycat_126 · 02-04-2012, 08:34 AM

REMOVE SCOTT SHANLE!!!!!!! It's the number one piece we have to fix. No progress from WLB for far to long

- Ask Jonathan Vilma, Sedrick Ellis, and Will Smith to take pay cuts ...... . This gets you some much needed breathing room for defensive FA signings

- Sign D' Qwell Jackson from Cleveland. Tackle monster who plays Baltimore and Pittsburgh every year.

- Sign Cliff Avril from Detroit

- Find possible ways to lure Laron Landry to N.O

- Decide who's better Harper or Jenkins, but you CANNOT have two of the exact same player at both Safety positions. My money is on Malcolm Jenkins. So Trade Roman Harper for Asante Samuel.

Let Tracy Porter seek greener pastures!!!!!

Coach up in no specific Martez Wilson, Ramon Humber Jonathan Casillas, Greg Romeus, Cam Jorden for the youth movement.

Develop the third down ( NASCAR Package) Four DE on the field ( NEW DOME PATROL

jcp026 · 02-04-2012, 09:11 AM

Would all of the $17 million for trading Harper count against the cap? If so, no point talking about moving him. If the cap hit is more manageable, I'd still hope for a trade with the Rams to bring Denario Alexander and a 3rd round pick to N.O.

Also, I think signing anyone of note in free agency is unlikely.

I'll say this one more time:
2nd round LB Donta Hightower
3rd round DE Jared Crick
4th round S Markelle Martin
5th round DT Derek Wolfe
6th round TE Ladarius Green
7th round LB Adrien Cole

That's how to fix the D.

Danno · 02-04-2012, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by jcp026

Would all of the $17 million for trading Harper count against the cap? If so, no point talking about moving him. If the cap hit is more manageable, I'd still hope for a trade with the Rams to bring Denario Alexander and a 3rd round pick to N.O.

Roughly...

Harper is in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract. 7 million signing bonus plus 16 million guaranteed. Those are typically spread out over the life of the contract so thats 23 million/4year = 5.75 million/year

With 3 years left thats 5.75 x 3 = 17.25 million that would accelerate to the current year cap if we cut/traded him.

Again, its a rough estimate because we don't know all of the details.

Harper is a much better SS than many here understand.

alleycat_126 · 02-04-2012, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Roughly...

Harper is in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract. 7 million signing bonus plus 16 million guaranteed. Those are typically spread out over the life of the contract so thats 23 million/4year = 5.75 million/year

With 3 years left thats 5.75 x 3 = 17.25 million that would accelerate to the current year cap if we cut/traded him.

Again, its a rough estimate because we don't know all of the details.

Harper is a much better SS than many here understand.

I think most understand that Harper is good, but you have the exact same type of safety on the other side. Good not great, terrific in run support, coverage skills for long periods leave little to be desired. Get's smoke by hybrid TE's all day. Will you at least admit that one of the two safety spots should be able to come up with the ball every once and a while and stop giving harper and jenkins a pass.

Danno · 02-04-2012, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

I think most understand that Harper is good, but you have the exact same type of safety on the other side. Good not great, terrific in run support, coverage skills for long periods leave little to be desired. Get's smoke by hybrid TE's all day.

If by all day you mean 2 or 3 games all season then OK.

The Dude · 02-05-2012, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

I think most understand that Harper is good, but you have the exact same type of safety on the other side. Good not great, terrific in run support, coverage skills for long periods leave little to be desired. Get's smoke by hybrid TE's all day. Will you at least admit that one of the two safety spots should be able to come up with the ball every once and a while and stop giving harper and jenkins a pass.

Jenkins looked good and steadily improving the past two years. He had a down year this year. A lot of players do their 3rd year. I want to see what some of the rookies that came in under Gregg Williams can do in a new scheme before I go tossing them out. His schemes had to be tough on players coming into the league. Harper has been around for a while and probably won't get any better in pass coverage but is too valuable againt the run to let go. I think you see Jenkins shine in pass coverage under a new scheme. Then you put Harper in for run situations and play Jenkins in coverage when its obvious.

02-04-2012, 08:33 AM	#1
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,748	Originally Posted by jeanpierre Strong Safety Jenkins and Harper Battle royale - the winner will be made better - savings on loser released/traded would be a plus; Amaya didn't look that bad! LaRon Landry wildest dreams - likely tagged... Keeping Harper will cost us about 7 million for 2012. Cutting or trading Harper will cost us 17 million for 2012, and we'd have to sign his replacement, which would be at least another 4 million for a comparable player. I'm thinking we keep him. FinSaint likes this.

02-03-2012, 11:49 PM	#2
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,119	Fix the defense.............alright let's get some duct tape and get started. jeanpierre likes this.
	Last edited by Rugby Saint II; 02-03-2012 at 11:52 PM..

02-04-2012, 01:12 AM	#3
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	major changes on defense? nope i am not looking for any real major changes. I am looking to see better depth added to the group as a whole. Cameron Jordan is a should be solid strong side DE. Wilson at SLB I love especially with the TE playing now. Granted both are work in progress but i do like what i saw in 2011. WLB is an interesting situation. Wilson swing to WLB? he has the speed. Who goes to SLB? Yet another reason to like Wilson. He allows us to draft or go after a FA to upgrade either position, OLB is the big move i think the saints MAY make. Stephen Tulloch wlb nice pick but i am looking at players like Jo-Lonn Dunbar, OLB, Saints Wesley Woodyard, OLB, Broncos for a look see Patrick Bailey, OLB, Titans DE and DT can be improved with the draft or mid level FA. Jason Jones, DT, Titans Nate Collins, DT, Jaguars Secondary? thats the tough area. Tracy Porter, CB, Saints William Middleton, CB, Jaguars Safety Dwight Lowery, CB/SS/FS, Jaguars. Age: 26 Most of the yardage given up by the saints in running downs was through the back door. cut back and the saints over play killed them over and over again. ! OLB and resign the bulk of the line and draft good depth is about all i see happening this year on the defensive side of the ball TACKLING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

02-04-2012, 08:40 PM	#4
RockyMountainSaint Mmm That Smell! Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Metairie Terrace Posts: 3,073	Originally Posted by hagan714 Most of the yardage given up by the saints in running downs was through the back door. cut back and the saints over play killed them over and over again. TACKLING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^

02-04-2012, 08:34 AM	#5
alleycat_126 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Katy, Tx a suburb of Houston Posts: 2,089	REMOVE SCOTT SHANLE!!!!!!! It's the number one piece we have to fix. No progress from WLB for far to long - Ask Jonathan Vilma, Sedrick Ellis, and Will Smith to take pay cuts ...... . This gets you some much needed breathing room for defensive FA signings - Sign D' Qwell Jackson from Cleveland. Tackle monster who plays Baltimore and Pittsburgh every year. - Sign Cliff Avril from Detroit - Find possible ways to lure Laron Landry to N.O - Decide who's better Harper or Jenkins, but you CANNOT have two of the exact same player at both Safety positions. My money is on Malcolm Jenkins. So Trade Roman Harper for Asante Samuel. Let Tracy Porter seek greener pastures!!!!! Coach up in no specific Martez Wilson, Ramon Humber Jonathan Casillas, Greg Romeus, Cam Jorden for the youth movement. Develop the third down ( NASCAR Package) Four DE on the field ( NEW DOME PATROL RockyMountainSaint likes this.

02-04-2012, 09:11 AM	#6
jcp026 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 953	Would all of the $17 million for trading Harper count against the cap? If so, no point talking about moving him. If the cap hit is more manageable, I'd still hope for a trade with the Rams to bring Denario Alexander and a 3rd round pick to N.O. Also, I think signing anyone of note in free agency is unlikely. I'll say this one more time: 2nd round LB Donta Hightower 3rd round DE Jared Crick 4th round S Markelle Martin 5th round DT Derek Wolfe 6th round TE Ladarius Green 7th round LB Adrien Cole That's how to fix the D.
jcp026 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 953

02-04-2012, 09:22 AM	#7
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,748	Originally Posted by jcp026 Would all of the $17 million for trading Harper count against the cap? If so, no point talking about moving him. If the cap hit is more manageable, I'd still hope for a trade with the Rams to bring Denario Alexander and a 3rd round pick to N.O. Roughly... Harper is in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract. 7 million signing bonus plus 16 million guaranteed. Those are typically spread out over the life of the contract so thats 23 million/4year = 5.75 million/year With 3 years left thats 5.75 x 3 = 17.25 million that would accelerate to the current year cap if we cut/traded him. Again, its a rough estimate because we don't know all of the details. Harper is a much better SS than many here understand. UK_WhoDat and RockyMountainSaint like this.

02-04-2012, 12:55 PM	#8
alleycat_126 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Katy, Tx a suburb of Houston Posts: 2,089	Originally Posted by Danno Roughly... Harper is in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract. 7 million signing bonus plus 16 million guaranteed. Those are typically spread out over the life of the contract so thats 23 million/4year = 5.75 million/year With 3 years left thats 5.75 x 3 = 17.25 million that would accelerate to the current year cap if we cut/traded him. Again, its a rough estimate because we don't know all of the details. Harper is a much better SS than many here understand. I think most understand that Harper is good, but you have the exact same type of safety on the other side. Good not great, terrific in run support, coverage skills for long periods leave little to be desired. Get's smoke by hybrid TE's all day. Will you at least admit that one of the two safety spots should be able to come up with the ball every once and a while and stop giving harper and jenkins a pass.

02-04-2012, 01:21 PM	#9
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,748	Originally Posted by alleycat_126 I think most understand that Harper is good, but you have the exact same type of safety on the other side. Good not great, terrific in run support, coverage skills for long periods leave little to be desired. Get's smoke by hybrid TE's all day. If by all day you mean 2 or 3 games all season then OK. RockyMountainSaint and blackangold like this.

02-05-2012, 01:13 AM	#10
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055	Originally Posted by alleycat_126 I think most understand that Harper is good, but you have the exact same type of safety on the other side. Good not great, terrific in run support, coverage skills for long periods leave little to be desired. Get's smoke by hybrid TE's all day. Will you at least admit that one of the two safety spots should be able to come up with the ball every once and a while and stop giving harper and jenkins a pass. Jenkins looked good and steadily improving the past two years. He had a down year this year. A lot of players do their 3rd year. I want to see what some of the rookies that came in under Gregg Williams can do in a new scheme before I go tossing them out. His schemes had to be tough on players coming into the league. Harper has been around for a while and probably won't get any better in pass coverage but is too valuable againt the run to let go. I think you see Jenkins shine in pass coverage under a new scheme. Then you put Harper in for run situations and play Jenkins in coverage when its obvious.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055

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