AB, or not AB, is that the question?

FWBSAINT · 11-19-2002, 03:53 PM

comments made after a very frustrating day of watching yellow flags and sandlot ball.

Is it me or does AB just not get into a game until it is on the line or something finally gets his attention? I love the kid (I'm over 50), but it seems that someone has to wack him aside the head to get him involved. I also thought McCarthy called a poor game, as did Rick Venturi, another item later. Don't we use timed routes in our version of the "West Coast Offense"? Moving AB back in the pocket and waiting for someone to uncover to use his gun of an arm doesn't work all the time, especiallyagainst a blitz. Obviously our line wasn't working too good on Sunday and maybe Reilly's DWI reflected how he felt about his performance, but we need first down passes to set up the run occasionally. The LBs and Safeties were sitting on Duce and the run on first down.

I taped but haven't had the stomach to watch it yet. I wish Venturi would stop using the three down rush. It seems every time we did, going back several games, we got burned. How can he expect three guys to contain Vick when four and five have trouble? Vick is dangerous outside the containment and that is what a three rush invites him to do. It was infuriating to watch six block three until Vick waits for an area of the field to open, to which he scambles and waits for a receiver to open.

We got outcoached by Atlanta probably twice this year, let's hope it doesn't happen a third time.

JOESAM2002 · 11-19-2002, 05:46 PM

Three offensive linemen playing their position for the first time. This leads me to believe that there was no way for them to be in sync. Yes i agree that the game maybe could have been called better, but it\'s hard to know what new guys will do their first time to play together. Look for a better game this Sunday against the Browns.
GO SAINTS!

saintz08 · 11-20-2002, 01:10 AM

Brooks has talent , this is a given and most any Saints fan will say that . What Brooks lacks is Leadership , the ability to make all the throws on the field and the ability to make all the check offs that this offense requires .

He excels when he is coming from behind and the defense is playing back and trying to avoid the big play . Brooks is simply not a west coast offense quarterback . When Walsh designed the west coast offense years ago , it was for an accurate quarterback with an average arm . Brooks has no touch on his passes and is questionably accurate .

Brooks can thread a needle on a hook route , but cannot even get it in the same zip code on a fly pattern . 2 receivers run a 4.2 or better 40 and Brooks cannot get the ball to them on a fly pattern . This pass completion alone could be a game breaker and Mc Carthy cannot call it because Brooks cannot make the completion . The Saints are wasting the wide receiver talent they have , by just running hook and slant routes .

By week 10 , enough defensive coordinators around the league know that Brooks has trouble hitting certain patterns and the defenses start cheating up . The Falcons had this knowledge before hand , from cousin Vick .

Benching Brooks at this point might show him there is more to the position then throwing fast balls , collecting big checks and smiling when you are losing badly . Benching Brooks would also confuse opposing defensive coordinators and give the Saints an advantage in that area . Duece would be the key to this success .

Da_Louisiana_Fan · 11-20-2002, 07:36 AM

I think AB is one of the questions. Here\'s why, He is the best QB we have ever had, why? Well for one his name isn\'t Billy Joe, Ha Ha HA. No seriously. His capabilities compared to another saint QB is top of the line. But having served in the armed forces I can tell you that Heart, intensity, and pride were the dally regiment. AB has spurts of these qualities showing threw, He leads on day and smiles on the other. He has heart, but sometimes takes a back burner for ego. And I hate to say it but I have never seen this mans intensity. I know I\'m not in the locker room to see all there is to the man, but even in interviews he shows that he has alot to learn about being the leader. I\'m not down on him, And I would never want us to trade him, but I would like to point out that there is room to grow.

SaintStoneyMount · 11-20-2002, 11:19 AM

I agree. Brooks has a lot to learn. Maybe he is just the type to mask his emotions with smiles and jokes. He had better start playing with playoff intensity now.

Saintz08 do you really thing Brooks should be benced?

saintz08 · 11-20-2002, 12:08 PM

Certain players only respond to the extreme .

Brooks has been the man since Blake went down and has not really had any set backs , Haslett handed him the keys and said your the driver . Taking Brooks out of the lime light , may send a signal to Brooks and get him hungry to play and lead .Kordell has the same problem and Cowher has done it , and Kordell has responded in the past . Jake has leadership qualities , the Dallas victory showed them , he was in and out of the huddle quickly , talked to receiver when on the sidelines and took it personally when a mistake was made . He may not have the talent of Brooks , but he is a capable quarterback . Montana was no great athlete , but he could move the team and chains .

Jakes time is coming , and I feel he may end up in Carolina as the starter next year .if Brooks does not start pushing this team and leading them then the Saints will be another talented team that for some reason never made it . The some reason, is usually leadership.

pakowitz · 11-20-2002, 11:39 PM

isnt jake under contract for next year?

saintz08 · 11-21-2002, 12:30 AM

I must say that was the one thing about Mueller that really got under my skin , the one year non veteran contracts . Jake may be a veteran at this point but I think he was one of those 1 year deals . I think 3 years if he is questionable , 5 years if he is good , and 8 if he is great . 1 year is a fill in player , Jake is not a fill in player , if he goes elsewhere that leaves the Saints with J.T. as the back up and a rookie to be drafted . I think he pulled that number on one of the current linemen too .

The team always carries the right to cut someone , keep the option open is my thought . Willie Jackson was a 1 year deal and what a brain fart that was , he could have been traded if things did not work out .

pakowitz · 11-21-2002, 09:57 AM

yea, he signed i think it was jacox to a 1 year deal. but i think they want jake for the long haul, he is a home state guy (ULL) and he probably could be starting for several teams in the league and his cap #s are minimal

saintz08 · 11-21-2002, 11:54 AM

Jakes last contract was 1 year for $ 563,000 .

Would love to see him ink a 5 year deal . What always bothers me was the statement that Haslett made when they signed Blake on the first day of free agency .

\" Blake is a good quarterback , he threw for a lot of yards against Pittsburgh when I was coaching there \".

Hmmmm, I see he still has those holes in his defensive scheme . Not really sure about Hasletts judgement on quarterbacks and corners .

11-19-2002, 03:53 PM	#1
FWBSAINT Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ft. Walton Beach FL Posts: 1	AB, or not AB, is that the question? comments made after a very frustrating day of watching yellow flags and sandlot ball. Is it me or does AB just not get into a game until it is on the line or something finally gets his attention? I love the kid (I'm over 50), but it seems that someone has to wack him aside the head to get him involved. I also thought McCarthy called a poor game, as did Rick Venturi, another item later. Don't we use timed routes in our version of the "West Coast Offense"? Moving AB back in the pocket and waiting for someone to uncover to use his gun of an arm doesn't work all the time, especiallyagainst a blitz. Obviously our line wasn't working too good on Sunday and maybe Reilly's DWI reflected how he felt about his performance, but we need first down passes to set up the run occasionally. The LBs and Safeties were sitting on Duce and the run on first down. I taped but haven't had the stomach to watch it yet. I wish Venturi would stop using the three down rush. It seems every time we did, going back several games, we got burned. How can he expect three guys to contain Vick when four and five have trouble? Vick is dangerous outside the containment and that is what a three rush invites him to do. It was infuriating to watch six block three until Vick waits for an area of the field to open, to which he scambles and waits for a receiver to open. We got outcoached by Atlanta probably twice this year, let's hope it doesn't happen a third time.

11-19-2002, 05:46 PM	#2
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	AB, or not AB, is that the question? Three offensive linemen playing their position for the first time. This leads me to believe that there was no way for them to be in sync. Yes i agree that the game maybe could have been called better, but it\'s hard to know what new guys will do their first time to play together. Look for a better game this Sunday against the Browns. GO SAINTS!

11-20-2002, 01:10 AM	#3
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	AB, or not AB, is that the question? Brooks has talent , this is a given and most any Saints fan will say that . What Brooks lacks is Leadership , the ability to make all the throws on the field and the ability to make all the check offs that this offense requires . He excels when he is coming from behind and the defense is playing back and trying to avoid the big play . Brooks is simply not a west coast offense quarterback . When Walsh designed the west coast offense years ago , it was for an accurate quarterback with an average arm . Brooks has no touch on his passes and is questionably accurate . Brooks can thread a needle on a hook route , but cannot even get it in the same zip code on a fly pattern . 2 receivers run a 4.2 or better 40 and Brooks cannot get the ball to them on a fly pattern . This pass completion alone could be a game breaker and Mc Carthy cannot call it because Brooks cannot make the completion . The Saints are wasting the wide receiver talent they have , by just running hook and slant routes . By week 10 , enough defensive coordinators around the league know that Brooks has trouble hitting certain patterns and the defenses start cheating up . The Falcons had this knowledge before hand , from cousin Vick . Benching Brooks at this point might show him there is more to the position then throwing fast balls , collecting big checks and smiling when you are losing badly . Benching Brooks would also confuse opposing defensive coordinators and give the Saints an advantage in that area . Duece would be the key to this success .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

11-20-2002, 07:36 AM	#4
Da_Louisiana_Fan Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 13	AB, or not AB, is that the question? I think AB is one of the questions. Here\'s why, He is the best QB we have ever had, why? Well for one his name isn\'t Billy Joe, Ha Ha HA. No seriously. His capabilities compared to another saint QB is top of the line. But having served in the armed forces I can tell you that Heart, intensity, and pride were the dally regiment. AB has spurts of these qualities showing threw, He leads on day and smiles on the other. He has heart, but sometimes takes a back burner for ego. And I hate to say it but I have never seen this mans intensity. I know I\'m not in the locker room to see all there is to the man, but even in interviews he shows that he has alot to learn about being the leader. I\'m not down on him, And I would never want us to trade him, but I would like to point out that there is room to grow.
Da_Louisiana_Fan Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 13

11-20-2002, 11:19 AM	#5
SaintStoneyMount 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Stone Mountain, GA Posts: 448	AB, or not AB, is that the question? I agree. Brooks has a lot to learn. Maybe he is just the type to mask his emotions with smiles and jokes. He had better start playing with playoff intensity now. Saintz08 do you really thing Brooks should be benced?

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11-20-2002, 12:08 PM	#6
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	AB, or not AB, is that the question? Certain players only respond to the extreme . Brooks has been the man since Blake went down and has not really had any set backs , Haslett handed him the keys and said your the driver . Taking Brooks out of the lime light , may send a signal to Brooks and get him hungry to play and lead .Kordell has the same problem and Cowher has done it , and Kordell has responded in the past . Jake has leadership qualities , the Dallas victory showed them , he was in and out of the huddle quickly , talked to receiver when on the sidelines and took it personally when a mistake was made . He may not have the talent of Brooks , but he is a capable quarterback . Montana was no great athlete , but he could move the team and chains . Jakes time is coming , and I feel he may end up in Carolina as the starter next year .if Brooks does not start pushing this team and leading them then the Saints will be another talented team that for some reason never made it . The some reason, is usually leadership.
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

11-20-2002, 11:39 PM	#7
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	AB, or not AB, is that the question? isnt jake under contract for next year?

11-21-2002, 12:30 AM	#8
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	AB, or not AB, is that the question? I must say that was the one thing about Mueller that really got under my skin , the one year non veteran contracts . Jake may be a veteran at this point but I think he was one of those 1 year deals . I think 3 years if he is questionable , 5 years if he is good , and 8 if he is great . 1 year is a fill in player , Jake is not a fill in player , if he goes elsewhere that leaves the Saints with J.T. as the back up and a rookie to be drafted . I think he pulled that number on one of the current linemen too . The team always carries the right to cut someone , keep the option open is my thought . Willie Jackson was a 1 year deal and what a brain fart that was , he could have been traded if things did not work out .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

11-21-2002, 09:57 AM	#9
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	AB, or not AB, is that the question? yea, he signed i think it was jacox to a 1 year deal. but i think they want jake for the long haul, he is a home state guy (ULL) and he probably could be starting for several teams in the league and his cap #s are minimal

11-21-2002, 11:54 AM	#10
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	AB, or not AB, is that the question? Jakes last contract was 1 year for $ 563,000 . Would love to see him ink a 5 year deal . What always bothers me was the statement that Haslett made when they signed Blake on the first day of free agency . \" Blake is a good quarterback , he threw for a lot of yards against Pittsburgh when I was coaching there \". Hmmmm, I see he still has those holes in his defensive scheme . Not really sure about Hasletts judgement on quarterbacks and corners .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020