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-   -   Featured Discussion THEY TAGGED HIM!!! (https://blackandgold.com/saints/41700-they-tagged-him.html)

FinSaint 03-03-2012 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamessr (Post 382465)
Come one.... there are 31 other teams that didn't have Carl Nicks and "some" done well.
It's not the end of the world


Nope, you're right not all 32 teams can have the best guard in the league at the same time - I stand corrected.

WhoDat!656 03-03-2012 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinSaint (Post 382462)
If they can't re-sign Nicks or find a suitable replacement for him, it might very well be that Brees will spend the majority of next season looking up to the heavens.

And sharing this view

W. Kovacs 03-03-2012 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinSaint (Post 382381)

Me too, my friend, me too. I really just don't know how to feel about this whole past two days. I feel like just found out Santa isn't real. (Sorry to anyone I may have broken that news to.)

papz 03-04-2012 12:08 AM

Wow is the only thing I can say on the matter. Hopefully everything turns out for the best.

saintsfan1976 03-04-2012 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papz (Post 382490)
Wow is the only thing I can say on the matter. Hopefully everything turns out for the best.

Quote:

The Saints still have until July 16 to work out a long-term accord with their record-breaking quarterback
Things will work out.

And Nicks can walk IMHO... Just like Faine, just like Goodwin and just like Kreutz.

Brees is the catalyst in this offense.

SanDiego49er 03-04-2012 03:06 AM

Which means they can't tag Carl Nicks and Marques Colston. Which means they will lose some key guys this offseason and maybe get worse. 1 or both will be gone. Somebody will want those players.

SaintGup 03-04-2012 03:48 AM

I cannot believe the poison coming out of the fans on this site. I know Drew Brees wants the money because I'm not naive, they all do. But maybe he does believe in keeping the team together too, however it is not down to him alone, other people have to do their bit. And when did this offer last year happen? I never heard anything about it and I never trust 'sources say...' news. I think we all wanted Brees to say 'I will take 1 million a year so you can keep all my teammates together and give them big money'. WHY SHOULD HE?! And who knows how the contracts were done and how Condon was manipulating the situation. I thought we were supposed to stand together in times of trouble but it seems to me that somebody is being vilified for asking for what he clearly deserves and I think they have treated him poorly. We were all saying how great this man is and what he means to the city and the people, and how he has raised the team and expectations to a level never before seen and what has been on his shoulders is immense...as long as he doesn't ask for money for it like any other player would. And anyone who doesn't believe he is about the team, you are fools. But he is allowed to look out for himself too. By the way, for those of you wishing ill on this man, shed your black and gold and walk away to Dallas, or maybe even Atlanta. We don't need fans like you. We are Black and Gold and, though understandably angry at what is going on with our beloved team, lets keep our heads about it please.

NOS2SB 03-04-2012 06:57 AM

All these players are overpaid. What's the difference between 18 and 23 million. Once you make that much money, 5 million shouldn't matter. Greed is what I call it.

Saint_LB 03-04-2012 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W. Kovacs (Post 382475)
Me too, my friend, me too. I really just don't know how to feel about this whole past two days. I feel like just found out Santa isn't real. (Sorry to anyone I may have broken that news to.)

I think this is what people are having the hardest time with...the fact that Drew just may not be the person they thought he was.

The fact that he actually let the tag him is actually good for the Saints from a money stand point. They now have 5 mil extra.

The fact that people are going to be calling him an idiot for not signing earlier is not going to be good, but I don't think he ever wanted to sign a long term contract to stay in NO.

Maybe we can all lighten up on the Breesus thing now.


I have a new chant for Drew...


Drew: I WANT MY MONEY!

Team: HOW MUCH...5?

Drew: NO

Team: 10?

Drew: NO!

Team: 15?

Drew: NO!

Team: 18?

Drew: NO!

Drew: I WANT TO BE THE HIGHEST PAID NFL PLAYER...YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!

Team: YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

papz 03-04-2012 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 382502)
Things will work out.

And Nicks can walk IMHO... Just like Faine, just like Goodwin and just like Kreutz.

Brees is the catalyst in this offense.

I'm only shocked we had to tag Brees... beyond shocked actually. As for Nicks, I absolutely agree... we'll be just fine. We've always done a great job scouting talent on along the offensive line so I'm not at all concerned with it.

30 ppg is 30 ppg no matter how you dice it. We're good.

saintsfan1976 03-04-2012 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papz (Post 382538)
I'm only shocked we had to tag Brees... beyond shocked actually. As for Nicks, I absolutely agree... we'll be just fine. We've always done a great job scouting talent on along the offensive line so I'm not at all concerned with it.

30 ppg is 30 ppg no matter how you dice it. We're good.

Yup. And everyone listen up - there is still time to sign Brees to a long term deal. It will happen.

FinSaint 03-04-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintGup (Post 382514)
I cannot believe the poison coming out of the fans on this site. I know Drew Brees wants the money because I'm not naive, they all do. But maybe he does believe in keeping the team together too, however it is not down to him alone, other people have to do their bit. And when did this offer last year happen? I never heard anything about it and I never trust 'sources say...' news. I think we all wanted Brees to say 'I will take 1 million a year so you can keep all my teammates together and give them big money'. WHY SHOULD HE?! And who knows how the contracts were done and how Condon was manipulating the situation. I thought we were supposed to stand together in times of trouble but it seems to me that somebody is being vilified for asking for what he clearly deserves and I think they have treated him poorly. We were all saying how great this man is and what he means to the city and the people, and how he has raised the team and expectations to a level never before seen and what has been on his shoulders is immense...as long as he doesn't ask for money for it like any other player would. And anyone who doesn't believe he is about the team, you are fools. But he is allowed to look out for himself too. By the way, for those of you wishing ill on this man, shed your black and gold and walk away to Dallas, or maybe even Atlanta. We don't need fans like you. We are Black and Gold and, though understandably angry at what is going on with our beloved team, lets keep our heads about it please.


It's frustration and disappointment, but calling out other fans who are amidst of those afore mentioned feelings may not be the most productive way of going about making your point.

I do agree with some of the things that you said, but the thing that disappoints me to most about this is that if it is really true that Brees demanded to be payed $23M for the first 3 years of the contract - it shows me that he really didn't care about keeping the rest of the team competitive.

Because, if the Saints had about $20M of cap space (as was reported) to use before the restructuring of existing contracts like they're doing with Smith's contract - it would mean that Brees was asking for more than the team could legally afford to pay him without cutting some players and in affect taking away their livelihood or restructuring other players' contracts which is the same as taking money from their pockets and putting it into Brees'.

Granted this might not be what really happened, no one but the parties involved know that for sure, but the idea that this was what happened does change the way I perceive Brees as an individual and a leader - and that has nothing to do with a lack of support I'm showing for the Saints... quite the contrary.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papz (Post 382538)
I'm only shocked we had to tag Brees... beyond shocked actually. As for Nicks, I absolutely agree... we'll be just fine. We've always done a great job scouting talent on along the offensive line so I'm not at all concerned with it.

30 ppg is 30 ppg no matter how you dice it. We're good.

Not only am I not shocked by the tag, I fully expected it. There was no way that they would come to a deal without both parties making a valid effort. Condon had no intention of giving the Saints a chance of tagging Nicks and the only way to accomplish that was to force the Saints to tag Brees instead. You could see it from a thousand miles away. Loomis was given no shot whatsoever.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 382541)
Yup. And everyone listen up - there is still time to sign Brees to a long term deal. It will happen.

Lots and lots of time.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinSaint (Post 382545)
It's frustration and disappointment, but calling out other fans who are amidst of those afore mentioned feelings may not be the most productive way of going about making your point.

I do agree with some of the things that you said, but the thing that disappoints me to most about this is that if it is really true that Brees demanded to be payed $23M for the first 3 years of the contract - it shows me that he really didn't care about keeping the rest of the team competitive.

Because, if the Saints had about $20M of cap space (as was reported) to use before the restructuring of existing contracts like they're doing with Smith's contract - it would mean that Brees was asking for more than the team could legally afford to pay him without cutting some players and in affect taking away their livelihood or restructuring other players' contracts which is the same as taking money from their pockets and putting it into Brees'.

Granted this might not be what really happened, no one but the parties involved know that for sure, but the idea that this was what happened does change the way I perceive Brees as an individual and a leader - and that has nothing to do with a lack of support I'm showing for the Saints... quite the contrary.

The bolded section is where you are totally off. Brees is not demanding anything. He signed a contract with Condon's sports agency to handle his negotiations. I assure you that it includes verbiage alluding to the fact that Condon makes the calls on the process.

FinSaint 03-04-2012 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 382553)
The bolded section is where you are totally off. Brees is not demanding anything. He signed a contract with Condon's sports agency to handle his negotiations. I assure you that it includes verbiage alluding to the fact that Condon makes the calls on the process.


Surely Brees himself is overseeing the negotiations or do you think he just signed a deal with Condon, which states that Condon can freely handle the negotiations as he best sees fit, and meanwhile Brees takes off for a round of golf?

I'm not saying that you aren't right, but it seems a bit strange if Brees has completely removed himself from the negotiation process or is that the way Condon's agency prefers to handle these things?

In my opinion (however misguided it might be), the contract is ultimately between Brees and the Saints, and the agent(s) and Saints' personnel involved are only acting as intermediaries between the two sides. Therefore, I think it is correct to say that "Brees demanded" a certain contract, because his agents are only speaking in his behalf.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinSaint (Post 382554)
Surely Brees himself is overseeing the negotiations or do you think he just signed a deal with Condon, which states that Condon can freely handle the negotiations as he best sees fit, and meanwhile Brees takes off for a round of golf?

I'm not saying that you aren't right, but it seems a bit strange if Brees has completely removed himself from the negotiation process or is that the way Condon's agency prefers to handle these things?

In my opinion (however misguided it might be), the contract is ultimately between Brees and the Saints, and the agent(s) and Saints' personnel involved are only acting as intermediaries between the two sides. Therefore, I think it is correct to say that "Brees demanded" a certain contract, because his agents are only speaking in his behalf.

That is the way all agencies handle these things. Players hires agents to handle everything. If it wasn't for agents most players would play for much less. The Agent protects the player's interest by maximizing the contract. That's his job and to be able to do his job the player has to agree to be hands off.

blackangold 03-04-2012 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 382561)
That is the way all agencies handle these things. Players hires agents to handle everything. If it wasn't for agents most players would play for much less. The Agent protects the player's interest by maximizing the contract. That's his job and to be able to do his job the player has to agree to be hands off.

And that player can always decide to fire the agent he is with. With how active Drew was in the lock-out you really thing he is not sitting at the table with his agent saying yes or no... really. Lets face it Drew is not who we thought he was but that is our fault no one could hold themselves to the standard that we put on Drew (Bresus)...

blackangold 03-04-2012 10:29 AM

Why is this a bad thing...

Brees will now only count for 14mil against the cap and with Smith re-structuring and possible re-structures/cuts with Ellis and Vilma we could sign everyone back and be in the running for massive upgrades on the defensive side of the ball.

Worst case is another team signs Brees. However, we still get the 2 first round draft picks and enough money to sign matt flynn securing the future of the team.

The tag is a win-win for the Saints only loser right now is Brees.

Danno 03-04-2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 382565)
Why is this a bad thing...

Brees will now only count for 14mil against the cap and with Smith re-structuring and possible re-structures/cuts with Ellis and Vilma we could sign everyone back and be in the running for massive upgrades on the defensive side of the ball.

Worst case is another team signs Brees. However, we still get the 2 first round draft picks and enough money to sign matt flynn securing the future of the team.

The tag is a win-win for the Saints only loser right now is Brees.

We tagged him as exlusive, no other teams can even negotiate with him.

But back to the point, if Condon was demanding 25 million and the tag is only 14 Million, we save a lot of money this year.

We can sign Nicks/Colston and frontload as much as we can to free up some cap next year for Drew's contract.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 382562)
And that player can always decide to fire the agent he is with. With how active Drew was in the lock-out you really thing he is not sitting at the table with his agent saying yes or no... really. Lets face it Drew is not who we thought he was but that is our fault no one could hold themselves to the standard that we put on Drew (Bresus)...

You can't just fire your agent. Especially without cause. Condon is doing his job. You are putting unreal expectation upon Brees. Just be patient.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 382565)
Why is this a bad thing...

Brees will now only count for 14mil against the cap and with Smith re-structuring and possible re-structures/cuts with Ellis and Vilma we could sign everyone back and be in the running for massive upgrades on the defensive side of the ball.

Worst case is another team signs Brees. However, we still get the 2 first round draft picks and enough money to sign matt flynn securing the future of the team.

The tag is a win-win for the Saints only loser right now is Brees.

If you think Matt Flynn would be the future then I am scared as hell.

SaintsBro 03-04-2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 382550)
Not only am I not shocked by the tag, I fully expected it. There was no way that they would come to a deal without both parties making a valid effort. Condon had no intention of giving the Saints a chance of tagging Nicks and the only way to accomplish that was to force the Saints to tag Brees instead. You could see it from a thousand miles away. Loomis was given no shot whatsoever.

I agree, felt the same way, I have been feeling for a long time now that this mysterious holdup was all about NOT letting the franchise tag get used on Nicks. Players hate the tag.

FinSaint 03-04-2012 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 382561)
That is the way all agencies handle these things. Players hires agents to handle everything. If it wasn't for agents most players would play for much less. The Agent protects the player's interest by maximizing the contract. That's his job and to be able to do his job the player has to agree to be hands off.


I can understand your though process, but I can't completely agree with your perception of the issue.

If, as you claim, Brees has left the whole matter of negotiating his contract in the hands of Condon without giving him any guidelines to follow or reserving any oversight over the decisions made - why would Brees make a statement like "I want to see the team's competitiveness preserved" and directly stating that it is important to take into account the signing of other key FAs when negotiating the details of his contract?

I mean, if he couldn't affect the way the actual negotiations proceeded or the details involved, why would he make such a statement, which implied he could in effect do so?

saintfan 03-04-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 382572)
You can't just fire your agent.

Sure you can. It happens all the time.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinSaint (Post 382584)
I can understand your though process, but I can't completely agree with your perception of the issue.

If, as you claim, Brees has left the whole matter of negotiating his contract in the hands of Condon without giving him any guidelines to follow or reserving any oversight over the decisions made - why would Brees make a statement like "I want to see the team's competitiveness preserved" and directly stating that it is important to take into account the signing of other key FAs when negotiating the details of his contract?

I mean, if he couldn't affect the way the actual negotiations proceeded or the details involved, why would he make such a statement, which implied he could in effect do so?

And in what way does what he said counter what is going on? The fact is that even if an $18 million deal per year was agreed upon it would have killed any chance at signing both Nicks and Colston. Now they have a chance with the lower tag amount.

Besides, he can mean what he said but that doesn't mean it was possible.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 382585)
Sure you can. It happens all the time.

Not in the middle of contract negotiations. The only time I have heard of players firing agents is when the agent couldn't get what the player wanted. I have never heard of a player firing an agent for getting too much. That's just plain dumb.

blackangold 03-04-2012 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 382597)
Not in the middle of contract negotiations. The only time I have heard of players firing agents is when the agent couldn't get what the player wanted. I have never heard of a player firing an agent for getting too much. That's just plain dumb.

So you think his agent is doing his job by landing him the tag lol. Fact is Brees's agent didn't get too much. What he got was Brees tagged and a contract worth 14mil this year in addition to a tarnished image.

FinSaint 03-04-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 382595)
And in what way does what he said counter what is going on? The fact is that even if an $18 million deal per year was agreed upon it would have killed any chance at signing both Nicks and Colston. Now they have a chance with the lower tag amount.

Besides, he can mean what he said but that doesn't mean it was possible.


Ok. It seems that you're unwilling to see my point, so I guess there's no point in continuing to try and do that.

CharityMike 03-04-2012 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 382595)
And in what way does what he said counter what is going on? The fact is that even if an $18 million deal per year was agreed upon it would have killed any chance at signing both Nicks and Colston. Now they have a chance with the lower tag amount.

Besides, he can mean what he said but that doesn't mean it was possible.

Yeah we could have. If we would have signed Brees we could then Tag Knicks. Then make an offer to Colston and if he didn't like it he could leave.

The 14 mil is not even known if thats what it is going to be. It could be between 16 and 18 mil depending on what happens with Manning. If Manning stays a Colt at his current contract, the tag is going to be more than 14 mil. So if thats the case and it happens to get closer to 18, than we would be right back where we wanted to be in the first place. Brees ends up with no security and he has NO ONE to blame but himself.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 382601)
So you think his agent is doing his job by landing him the tag lol. Fact is Brees's agent didn't get too much. What he got was Brees tagged and a contract worth 14mil this year in addition to a tarnished image.

No. What he got was his other client, Carl Nicks, on the open market ... maybe. There may actually be room to make a deal with Nicks now and work out a backloaded deal for Brees later. He can still get Drew the long-term deal anytime before July 18th. This goes on all the time. Brees is the same person today as he has always shown.

AsylumGuido 03-04-2012 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharityMike (Post 382605)
Yeah we could have. If we would have signed Brees we could then Tag Knicks. Then make an offer to Colston and if he didn't like it he could leave.

The 14 mil is not even known if thats what it is going to be. It could be between 16 and 18 mil depending on what happens with Manning. If Manning stays a Colt at his current contract, the tag is going to be more than 14 mil. So if thats the case and it happens to get closer to 18, than we would be right back where we wanted to be in the first place. Brees ends up with no security and he has NO ONE to blame but himself.

We couldn't sign Brees and tag Nicks. Condon made sure of that. He was in the driver's seat. He wanted us to commit the tag to Brees knowing he could get the deal later. He knew we wouldn't work with him on Nicks.

NOLA54 03-04-2012 05:01 PM

They still have time to sign him to a long term deal. I read that Brees said he will not sign a Franchise Tag agreement. If they do not get him signed by mid march he will not be able to attend any OTA's or training camp events. This will force Loomis's hand. I just hate the way this feels. I wish Drew would have a press conference or do an interview where we can actually see & hear him.

SmashMouth 03-05-2012 09:27 AM

Interesting that there is no Tweet update from Drew ...
http://blackandgold.com/twitter/2777...tml#post382849

SAINTstunna 03-05-2012 06:11 PM

This is the most CLASSLESS thing the SAINTS have done since the SEAN PAYTON era.... BREES played for PENNIES while less talented QB's got paid big money and the only thing he asked was not to get the TAGG!!! On the flipside, this will allow us to be able to sign NICKS and possibly COLSTON, then pay BREES next year.... LETS HOPE FOR NO INJURIES!!!!!!!

FinSaint 03-05-2012 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAINTstunna (Post 383186)
[...]BREES played for PENNIES[...]


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not?

saintfan 03-05-2012 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOLA54 (Post 382706)
They still have time to sign him to a long term deal. I read that Brees said he will not sign a Franchise Tag agreement. If they do not get him signed by mid march he will not be able to attend any OTA's or training camp events. This will force Loomis's hand. I just hate the way this feels. I wish Drew would have a press conference or do an interview where we can actually see & hear him.

Well I'll tell you how I feel. We were going to make him the highest paid player and his money was going to match Tom Brady's for the first three years. He could have signed but HE chose not to. That's on him. In my opinion that was fair. We have other players to sign, and we all know Drew could have a job with the Saints for the rest of his life if he chose to. Point is he's is far from every having to worry about money...ever...

But he chose not to sign. That's fine. Here's 14.5 MILLION for a year. That alone means he never has to worry about money ever again...PLUS what he's already made in salary, bonuses, endorsements, etc. IF he chose not to sign then to hell with it. Chase is the next man up.

I love Drew. Don't get me wrong. But at some point you gotta draw a line and defend it.

UK_WhoDat 03-10-2012 07:08 AM

:( I am in a daze.

FinSaint 03-10-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UK_WhoDat (Post 385512)
:( I am in a daze.


You're not the only one...


http://www.buildingshsu.com/pix/site/dc1993.jpg


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