That's like saying buying a 250 year-old French Quarter townhome is a good buy so long as it has no structural problems and you can pay less than $250,000 for it.

If that's what you want, get it, but don't expect unreasonable things.

true.

I just trying to get rid of all my "negative waves" and think positive.

You have a point, I need to try a little more of that before I go postal.

negative waves...

'Goos-fraba' seems to have a calming affect and has been working for me lately, :mrgreen:

Moss is a human being. He's been through the ringer for the last 3-4 years because of his antics. The last full season anyone saw this guy play, he set & still holds the NFL records. There is not an NFL CB that can cover this guy when he's giving effort. I think this is an oppurtunity for Moss to get redemption for his past. I say go with it if he's cheap. I think he wants to change his appearance in the public eye & show what caliber of an athlete he still is. Besides......do you really think Meachem or Devery are even in the same hemisphere of Moss? If you do, you are kidding yourself. Mr. Loomis, get Brees this weapon.....even if only for one year.

Well I think the question here is "is this that Randy Moss?"

My gut says the 2012 version of Moss is a shadow of his former self.

Just because he was great 3 or 4 years ago doesn't mean he still is now.

If he's still what we saw in 2010, then YES, Meachem and Henderson are definitely better options than Randy Moss, no doubt about it.

"4.39 to 4.42 forty time", "ran precise routes", "caught everything thrown his way", "looked physically in great shape", "wowed everyone there". Now.....I'd say that sounds like the old Randy. That said, Randy Moss on his worst day is still a better WR than Meachem or Devery on their best days. That's fact.....even at 35! That said......he's cheap, has excellent hands, is 6'4", & is fast. Oh yeah.....he's also one of the best WR's of all time. Why not take a shot at him? If he shows signs of "prima donna" behavior, you simply cut him.....end of story. It's not like you broke the bank for him.

Also.....I know people will probably break out the pitchforks on this, but he also doesn't drop catchable balls, like Colston. I love Colston, but truth is truth. Look at it this way.......Marques Colston for $8-9 million/yr. or Randy Moss for $1 million/ year. Uhmmm.......I'll take Randy & use the leftover money on defense where we really need it.

I honestly could not disagree more with this statement.

You and I frequently agree, but we are polar opposites on this one my friend.

I'll make it simple...... neither Devery or Meachem have had a 1,000 yd. receiving season in their entire careers. Neither have had a double digit TD season either. Moss, on the other hand, has averaged over 1,100 yds. a season & nearly 12 TD's a season for the past 13 years. That's also averaging his 2006 & 2010 seasons where he didn't put up any stats.

People can hate the guy all they want, but the fact remains......Randy Moss is one of the most prolific WR's of all time. Take that into account, the fact that he is so hungry for a ring, & the fact that he physically "still has it." You may disagree for personal reasons or whatever, but there is no doubt that Moss is a better player than Meachem or Henderson on any given day.

P.S. - Randy's worst season is on par with either Devery or Meachem's career averages. ;-)

You keep saying "is" when you should be saying "was".

I personally have fondness towards Moss because he was an important part of one of my favorite Vikings' teams ever, and I wouldn't have anything major against him playing for the Saints if the price was right and his production was up to par.

But to make those comparisons to both Henderson and Meachem is not that fair, because they simply haven't played in similar roles during their respective careers.


For example, if we take a look at the more recent level of performances (2009 regular season) head-to-head, we find that there isn't a big difference in Moss', Meachem's and Henderson's relative production levels.

In 2009, Moss had 137 catches for a total of 1,264 yards (9.2 y/catch) with a catch % of 61%, and with 13 TDs and 2 fumbles.

In 2009, Meachem had 64 catches for a total of 722 yards (11.2 y/catch) with a catch % of 70%, and with 9 TDs and 2 fumbles.

In 2009, Henderson had 83 catches for a total of 804 yards (9.6 y/catch) with a catch % of 61%, and with 2 TDs and 0 fumbles.


Looking at those numbers alone, I'd have to say that Meachem had better relative numbers than Moss, and if he had been targeted as much as Moss was, he would've exceeded Moss' numbers quite easily.

If Meachem would've caught 137 catches like Moss did, his total yardage would've been 1,534 yards according to the average yardage per catch ratio he had that season.

Furthermore, since Meachem's catch % was 9% higher than Moss', it is fair to deduce that he wouldn't have needed as many throws to get those 137 catches as Moss did.

So numbers and stats are relative, and we can't just go by them when we are trying to evaluate which receiver would be the best option for the Saints going forward.

Needless to say that since both Henderson and Meachem are already familiar with SP's schemes and they have a chemistry relationship with Brees - they have the upper hand in a head-to-head comparison of potential future value.

That remains to be seen, but according to everyone who was at his Saints tryout........it's looking like "is" is the term to be used. Regardless......like I said before, Moss's worst seasons are on par with Meachem & Henderson's career average.

Meachem and Henderson have never been labeled team killers or quitters either.

Neither Meachem or Devery are 6'4". Neither Devery or Meachem can still run a sub 4.4 forty. And finally.....neither Devery or Meachem have the hands that Moss does. Bottom line......neither of these guys will make the Hall of Fame. Meanwhile.....Moss is a for sure 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Case closed. Like him or love him......the dude is that good!

Corrected it for you.

Moss isn't a 1st ballot HOF either.

Case wide open.

Yes, but he won't go into the HOF with the performances he has left in the tank, and that is for damn sure.

Steelers released 3 former pro-bowlers, should the Saints go after all of them based on their past performances?

And both Meachem and Henderson have been playing football during the time Moss has played switcheroo with NFL teams and taken a vacation from the game.

It's one thing to perform well on a glorified pro-day, but it's something completely different to do that on a Sunday when the chips are down and to keep doing that for the whole 17+ weeks.

Like I said before.....we're not signing the guy long term. He's 35. He's cheap. This is another plus for us, as we are strapped for cash. We can go through this all day. Ask yourself.....of the 3 bad seasons Moss had, who were his QB's? Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brooks, Tarvaris Jackson, & Vince Young. Hell.....I wouldn't want to play either! What did he do when he had a good QB? Class act..... Ask Brady & Warren Moon. Both have nothing but good to say about Moss & his efort. Bellichick, who holds no punches, even said he was a model player with the Patriots. Okay.....he said something bad about the food. You ever eat food in New England. Stuff is bland & Randy's a southern boy. C'mon! ;-) People are so quick to say Moss is done, but I'm telling you.....give this guy a QB (like say, Drew Brees) & he'll put defenses on their heels! Ask Darrelle Revis, who is considered by many to be the best CB in the game.

Are you serious???

Randy Moss made the Pro Bowl 7 times in his 13 years in the league (1998-2000, 2002-03, 2007, 2009), and was named Pro Bowl MVP in 2000.

Moss was also an All-Pro selection five times. (1998, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2007)


•Most touchdown receptions in a season – 23 (2007)
•Most touchdown receptions by a rookie in a season – 17 (1998)
•Most seasons with 17 or more touchdown receptions – 3 (1998, 2003, 2007)
•Most games in a season with at least 2 touchdown receptions – 8 (2007)
•Most yards receiving in a Pro Bowl game – 212 (2000)
•Most 1,200+ yard receiving seasons to start a career – 6 (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003)
•Fastest player to reach 5,000 career receiving yards – 59 games
•Youngest player in NFL history to record 100 receiving touchdowns – (29 years and 235 days)
•Youngest player in NFL history to record 120 receiving touchdowns – (30 years, 313 days)


#5 All time receiving yards, #2 all time touchdowns scored, #10 all time receptions, single season receiving yardage record, single season receiving TD's record, rookie TD reception record, most games in a season w/ multiple TD receptions in history.

Do you really think Moss is not a 1st ballot Hall of Famer???

I'm just erring on the side of caution when it comes to a player who hasn't seen any real football action in over a year.

We all know what Moss has been capable of in his prime and when he has been mentally focused, but there are no guarantees that the 2012 version of him will even be close to that.

And whether or not he comes cheap is beside the point, because he'd still take up a roster spot, and he might end up causing a rift within the team which might not be fixable by simply cutting him.

Case in point: the league says that the Hall of Fame is for people who changed the game. Randy Moss is the reason that Defensive coordinators had to invent the over-the-top safety coverage scheme, which he then managed to beat.
He's an ******* and a lunatic, but 9 people from the 1970s Raiders also happen to be in the HoF.

There's only 7 wide receivers in the HOF who started their careers after 1970. Only two were first ballot Largent and Rice.

Irvin got rejected once, Tim Brown and Andre Reed also have been rejected.

Moss is not first ballot. I don't care what his stats say. WR's aren't respected by voters for the HOF.

Fact.

Irvin, Brown, & Reed never put up the numbers Moss has. Neither did Largent. That's just a dumb argument. Fact is....only Jerry Rice holds trump over Moss as a wide receiver, and he played in his forties. If you really believe Moss is not 1st ballot material, you're fooling yourself or you don't know football! Even Michael Irvin himself said Moss should be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer & that compared to Rice & himself who always had great QB's......Moss played for average QB's at best most of his career. Stop hating on the guy!!!

I'm all over the board on Randy Moss. One day I'll be thinking he's the next coming, then I'll remember him quitting on routes.

You make a very compelling argument for signing Moss and I just wanted to point out post #68 or so in this thread where BGWhoDat put into question the "4.39 to 4.42 forty time". That to me signaled the Randy Moss debate had, or will soon be, a media circus. The "facts" are flying and who knows what's true or not. You can see where BGWhoDat quoted sources both stating and then not confirming a Randy Moss signing.

But, I think in light of everything that's gone on lately, I say the Saints embrace the 'bad-boy' image and sign him. Embracing that image did wonders for the Detroit Pistons of the '80s and led to multiple championships.

Give Moss a second chance to prove himself as long as you can cut him loose should he revert to his old ways. Make the gamble worth the risk by signing him cheap.

For better or worse, I'm now officially on board the Randy Moss bandwagon. IDK if it means I love controversy and/or I am an excitement junkie, but I do know there probably won't be a dull moment, good or bad.

I'm not hating on Moss I simply said he isn't first ballot. To say I don't know football - there's no reason to disrespect someone like that because they simply don't agree with your opinion.

A lot of his issues the past couple seasons with half assing routes, his character problems and such, will hurt him.

Moss is a second ballot WR in my due to the fact of the issues I've stated and there only being two first ballot WR's since 1970. The odds aren't in his favor.

In no way did I say his numbers weren't impressive or first ballot worthy, nor did I say he wasn't credible. I'm aware of the QBs he has played with.

There's no need to say I'm fooling myself or don't know football. Relax buddy.

@SloMotion

I'm glad you read that. I was very disappointed to see so many signals crossed. I know NBC Sports later said the he didn't run the 40 either. I'm not sure where SportsNOLA got their information. I know Moss claimed when he made the statement he wanted to play football again that he could run that and recently clocked at it. Maybe that's where.

I was displeased to say the least with my Editor making a false claim that the Saints were going to make him an offer. I never make claims in my articles or posts unless I can confirm them with a few legit sources. I never rely on one persons/websites claim.

I'm sure you can understand my position when I have to correct people due to them reading something someone who is "higher in position" than me wrote with absolutely no credible source to say such a claim. It would have been different had he have said "should offer" or "could offer" instead of "will."

Speaking of HoF

There are some great WR that are not in the HoF yet.

Andre Reed, Tim Brown and Chris Carter

Screw his stats ... i don't want this cancer, "me first" player on the Saints

Cris Cater isn't in due to politics

Personally, I hope he doesn't do it to anybody...even Atlanta. Catch the damn ball, spike it, and get your a&& to the sideline.

Story on Moss's forty time in Metarie:

NFL.com news: Moss 'looked like the old Randy' during workout with Saints

No one was trying to disrespect you. When a guy already has numbers such as that (2nd best WR numbers all time) & he's obviously not done. Why on earth would he not be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer? Off the field issues? No ring? That's like saying Ray Lewis won't be 1st ballot because he was investigated for a murder or Marino shouldn't have been 1st ballot because he didn't get a ring. It doesn't make sense. I know WR's are generally overlooked by voters, but this guy dominated the league for over a decade.

Hall of Fame voters are picky. I just believe personally between his character issues and how his reputation has been through his whole career (half assing routes is nothing new), it may hurt him even with the numbers. I don't have a vote and if I did, I'd vote him in first ballot. I just don't think they'll do it. If he does, congrats to him, he deserves it.

As far as your report, I'm telling you that WWL, NBC Sports, and numerous media outlets have confirmed he did not run the 40.

I even confirmed it myself with the Times-Picayune and Jay Glazer.

Moss didn

Every single rumor about the 40 being ran is directed to SportsNOLA.com No idea who their source was, but I believe PFT more than that website, considering they actually have more sources being a national media place.

Furthermore as I have stated, the time they said he ran is the exact rumored time that was said he ran before the work out.

Trust me on this one, I wouldn't downplay him.

One good reason he won't be in the HOF ANY time soon....The people voting have been doing it for years and how many receivers been inducted in the last 20 years?

Again.......How many have put up Moss's numbers???

Well.....if Glazer says it didn't happen, I believe that. He's generally on point.

As for Moss's bad play, well....like I mentioned before, who wants to wear themselves out every down with Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brooks, & Vince Young. I'm not saying it's right. Just saying I understand. Culpepper had a few good years & that's it. Aaron Brooks sucked! We, as Saints fans, all know that. And Vince Young......well, see the Aaron Brooks comment. Now.....I know Moss received alot of bad publicity for "playing when he wanted to", but tell me......did you ever see him take a play off with Warren Moon, Tom Brady, or even Culpepper in his good days??? Brooks & Young are team killers that bring everyone down, because they suck. I can understand Moss's lack of enthusiasm in that regard. The point is......you give this guy Brees as his QB, a chance at a ring, & a chance to change people's opinion of him.........I would be willing to bet the house Randy Moss would give his all. That said, could you imagine what Drew Brees could do with a guy that runs the 9 route like Moss added to the mix? I'll stop there.

Believe me bro..I have fully gotten your point on all of this. All I meant was, as long as the old crusty effr's like Peter King are still voting, he don't have a prayer.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned I confirmed it (I won't bust a story on this website or anywhere else until I can verify it myself through credible sources.)


I actually did an article by saying why the Saints SHOULD take a chance on Moss especially in the situation they're in. I'm not against him coming at all.

Also, he's quit on the Patriots and Brady before, that's why he got the boot if I'm not mistaken.

But, hey.. He does his own thing and deserves first ballot. Hopefully he gets it. We'll see in like, what? 7 years maybe?

I don't remember him quitting on the Pats. I do, however, remember a big stink about his comments on their food right before he was traded. In his defense...... New England food is horrible, so I understand. :-)

Thought it was in 2010... when he only played 4 games for them, that's why he ended up getting traded? I dunno though..