Saints Pick Akeim Hicks DT - Regina Canada

burningmetal · 04-29-2012, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

No, I got that. But the d-line and DT in particular is a much weaker spot than the o-line. The o-line, even with all the changes, has been very consistent the last 6 years: going off the top of my head, the o-line has gone through 4 centers, 4 LTs, 2 RT, 3 guards, and still, they produce. With all those changes, the Saints still fielded the best offense the last 6 years combined as reflected by points scored, number of sacks allowed, yards gained, etc; unlike the defense which, again, except for the one year when their trick was creating turnovers and giving the ball back to the best offense in football, have not been able to stop anyone.

What's the point of (debatable) "solidifying" the best offense in the business, if the defense still lets the likes of Alex Smith slice them and dice them for 4 consecutive drives in the 4th quarter of a playoff game?

If Drew goes down, all is lost? Ok. Sure. but with Drew at his best, the Saints still could not get past the divisional round of the playoffs because the defense could not stop anyone, and were a tad too close to letting Stafford and Megatron steal one in the Dome.

Is Hicks a "project"? Maybe. But maybe not. We'll see.

And you didn't watch "film". You watched a couple clips on youtube. Come on.

You know what? If you can't have an intelligent discussion without coming off as a cocky, know it all punk, then why should I continue to bother telling you what i think?

I said the tackles were weak, not the entire offensive line. And in case you have been asleep, we've added two really good linebackers along with Bunkley to help Solidify that defense. What we need is a pass rush, and we didn't get a pass rusher in Hicks. If he pans out he would help push the pocket some, and that would be good, but we need guys who specialize in rushing the QB. However, I believe that with Galette, Wilson, Romeus and maybe even Cam Jordan, there is a good young core of players that Spagnuolo will bring up and make them good pass rushers. Now you can disagree with that if you want, but a lot of people agree with that sentiment, it's not just me.

I would have had no problem with a DT there if it had been someone I thought had a chance to help us more than Massie. I would have liked to see them take Jared Crick, but apparently they didn't want him. You forget that we got in a hole last year against the 49ers because the offense kept turning it over. We were one dimensional the whole game and they got after Brees, and we made a lot of mistakes. To their credit, they fought back, but THEN the defense collapsed. And who was it that got beat repeatedly in those last two drives? Harper and Jenkins... Can't blame that one on Rogers and Franklin as bad as they may have been at times last year.

Every position is important, and when you have a chance to get a really good player, you get him. The Saints wanted Hicks more than any other player, so there's nothing more to say about it. I just thought I'd throw my two cents in like everyone else, but obviously you are determined to disagree with everything I say. I don't need you to agree with me.

And lastly, I saw whatever footage was available, whether it be NFL.com or youtube, or whatever. What does it matter, exactly, where I see it? It's there to be seen, and I saw it. Are you going to tell me I wasn't looking at the same player? What are you basing your opinion on? Have you personally scouted him? Every piece of information that you've gotten on him is the same thing that is available to everyone else, and I'm going with what I can see and read. You're a hypocrite if you think you have any more right to assume you know what kind of player he is, or will be, than I do. And I don't EVEN assume he won't be good, I just have serious doubts. Is that ok? He's a nice prospect, but I didn't want him there. But just as I don't need you agreeing with me, the Saints don't need anyone to agree with them. It's just an opinion, now move on.

Tobias-Reiper · 04-29-2012, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Have you personally scouted him?

No, I haven't. And neither have you. You saw a couple clips posted here and there, read a couple things this guy and that guy wrote about him (and this and that guy likely didn't scout him either).

And I do remember the offense turning the ball over against the Whiners, but I also remember the Whiners going very conservative on offense after they went up 17-0. And when the chips were down, when the only thing the defense needed was 1 stop out of 4 defensive stands in the 4th quarter, they couldn't do it, including an 80-yard TD drive by Alex Smith with 1:32 on the clock.

The point I am trying to make is very simple:
Offense has been awesome.
Defense has been horrible.
Get whatever is needed ( or whatever Spagnuolo thinks is needed) to fix the reason why the Saints don't have at least 3 rings today.

As for this Massie fellow, well, he doesn't exactly come with Muñoz or Roaf or Pace credentials either, does he? He may have been rated the 7th or 8th "best" tackle in the draft, but what does that tell you, really? What makes you so sure to say an inconsistent tackle leaving college early is going to solidify anything?

burningmetal · 04-29-2012, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

No, I haven't. And neither have you. You saw a couple clips posted here and there, read a couple things this guy and that guy wrote about him (and this and that guy likely didn't scout him either).

And I do remember the offense turning the ball over against the Whiners, but I also remember the Whiners going very conservative on offense after they went up 17-0. And when the chips were down, when the only thing the defense needed was 1 stop out of 4 defensive stands in the 4th quarter, they couldn't do it, including an 80-yard TD drive by Alex Smith with 1:32 on the clock.

The point I am trying to make is very simple:
Offense has been awesome.
Defense has been horrible.
Get whatever is needed ( or whatever Spagnuolo thinks is needed) to fix the reason why the Saints don't have at least 3 rings today.

As for this Massie fellow, well, he doesn't exactly come with Muñoz or Roaf or Pace credentials either, does he? He may have been rated the 7th or 8th "best" tackle in the draft, but what does that tell you, really? What makes you so sure to say an inconsistent tackle leaving college early is going to solidify anything?

You are so self righteous, it is incredible. No, of course I didn't scout him either. I can only go on everything that has been said, and what I have been able to see of him. And the point I made was extremely simple. You didn't scout him, so you are going on the same information I have. That was the point. I don't need you to say "you didn't scout him either", when the subject was about you, not me. I never pretended to know everything about him, but who among us does? So if you can say you think he's gonna be good, I can say the opposite, can't I? As for Massie, he was graded as a second rounder which makes him a lot better than the 7th or 8th best tackle, but as an LSU fan I have also seen him play in the SEC and I always thought of him as a first round talent. Clearly, he was someone we could have worked with.

And you dodged the point about the 49er game. I asked you who got burned twice at the end... The safeties. I don't care how conservative their game plan was, it was still the safeties who blew it, along with GW's stupid decision to blitz and leave them on an island. Our defense WAS bad, absolutely. Again, we've already done a lot to fix that through free agency. But whatever man, keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better than me. I'm just a fan.

|Mitch| · 04-29-2012, 09:03 PM

You two take it to the smacktalk board, I'm tired of reading the nonsense

Tobias-Reiper · 04-29-2012, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

You are so self righteous, it is incredible. No, of course I didn't scout him either. I can only go on everything that has been said, and what I have been able to see of him. And the point I made was extremely simple. You didn't scout him, so you are going on the same information I have. That was the point. I don't need you to say "you didn't scout him either", when the subject was about you, not me. I never pretended to know everything about him, but who among us does? So if you can say you think he's gonna be good, I can say the opposite, can't I? As for Massie, he was graded as a second rounder which makes him a lot better than the 7th or 8th best tackle, but as an LSU fan I have also seen him play in the SEC and I always thought of him as a first round talent. Clearly, he was someone we could have worked with.

And you dodged the point about the 49er game. I asked you who got burned twice at the end... The safeties. I don't care how conservative their game plan was, it was still the safeties who blew it, along with GW's stupid decision to blitz and leave them on an island. Our defense WAS bad, absolutely. Again, we've already done a lot to fix that through free agency. But whatever man, keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better than me. I'm just a fan.

I am not dodging anything. The safeties got burned because indeed GW sent everyone but the safeties to blitz, and obviously none of the blitzers got to the QB, no? The guys in the middle didn't make a strong push to collapse the pocket or take a second defender with them.

Anyway...

burningmetal · 04-30-2012, 01:40 AM

Dude, believe what you will, I've said my peace and then some.

and Mitch, sorry man, but if you don't like it you don't have to read it. When someone takes initiative to talk down to me over not liking a pick, I will defend myself. It's BS that a fellow Saints fan would want to start an argument with me over nothing.

pherein · 04-30-2012, 04:38 AM

lol, he's got a point mitch. They both have a right to defend their positions. Kind of a reason why you have a thread in the first place. Wether or not you want to hear it, is where you should get off your comfortable horse and stop reading. lol

A thread without opposing views where one guy gets banned, if its not completely pro saints, is the saintsreport I thought.

burningmetal has a point of view thats not popular, but more than that, he's supporting it by posting against anyone that post against him. Its possible he's just being confrontational , supporting a view with no reason for sake of argument. OR its possible everyone else is. But thats why we have threads. To further our own knowledge and personal development, be proven wrong or right, or not sure. To listen or be listened to. Ramble, say what we think we mean, and get ripped apart. Its all good.

The guys that post and defend their arguments without listening to others get a reputation as being useless to talk to, and their future opinions get greatly devalued. Guys willing to work things out and see the others point of view go on to be important to the black and gold, like you mitch. Which might be why its bothering you,lol. Your not seeing either side let up, and that can get annoying.
No you don't know what Im say..
No you don't know what Im say..
No I didn't mean that..
No I didn't mean that..
Your saying..
No Im not saying that..
What are you saying..
It gets old after awhile when people only read what they want to read in a post and not what was posted.
I completely get where you coming from. But you have to admit, its pretty funny sometimes

pherein · 04-30-2012, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

It's BS that a fellow Saints fan would want to start an argument with me over nothing.

If its nothing why are you arguing about it ? Don't make points that make your point look silly. Not trying to be rude, just pointing out the obvious. I would like to be entertained by this argument at some point.

canucksaint · 04-30-2012, 10:20 AM

I think this pick is a very interesting one. With the Saints not having a 1st or 2nd, I would think that they would have spent a considerable more amount of time looking at lower round prospect than other teams, therefore I would assume that they would have a better feel for some of these "diamonds in the rough" than others. I do understand some of the concerns that he played in Canada, and by no means is the competition the same, however one also has acknowledge that another Canadian player was drafted in the 4th round by the Chargers a couple years ago (Vaughan Martin) and he is now their starting DT. Seems like his size and stats equally compare.

burningmetal · 04-30-2012, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by pherein

If its nothing why are you arguing about it ? Don't make points that make your point look silly. Not trying to be rude, just pointing out the obvious. I would like to be entertained by this argument at some point.

Because I didn't bash anyone for liking the pick, pherein. I said I didn't like the pick and stated why. I thought there were better players available, and I might be right or I might be wrong. That goes for anyone's opinion of anybody the Saints picked.

But a couple people decided that it was so egregious that I didn't like the pick, to jump all over me about reading scouting reports and watching whatever footage there was to see, and drawing my conclusions from that. Just what exactly is everyone else drawing conclusions from? The guy is a project, who some obviously like, but I am not sold. When someone insults my intelligence just because I happen to doubt a player, I get really annoyed, and that's when I decide to speak my mind. There's nothing silly about what I said.

Why would I change my opinion to suit someone else, when it's not what I believe? I see why people have high hopes for him, but I also see reason to doubt. I don't get where that's such a hard thing to understand.

It's up to Hicks to change minds, one way or another.

04-29-2012, 04:39 PM	#1
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper No, I got that. But the d-line and DT in particular is a much weaker spot than the o-line. The o-line, even with all the changes, has been very consistent the last 6 years: going off the top of my head, the o-line has gone through 4 centers, 4 LTs, 2 RT, 3 guards, and still, they produce. With all those changes, the Saints still fielded the best offense the last 6 years combined as reflected by points scored, number of sacks allowed, yards gained, etc; unlike the defense which, again, except for the one year when their trick was creating turnovers and giving the ball back to the best offense in football, have not been able to stop anyone. What's the point of (debatable) "solidifying" the best offense in the business, if the defense still lets the likes of Alex Smith slice them and dice them for 4 consecutive drives in the 4th quarter of a playoff game? If Drew goes down, all is lost? Ok. Sure. but with Drew at his best, the Saints still could not get past the divisional round of the playoffs because the defense could not stop anyone, and were a tad too close to letting Stafford and Megatron steal one in the Dome. Is Hicks a "project"? Maybe. But maybe not. We'll see. And you didn't watch "film". You watched a couple clips on youtube. Come on. You know what? If you can't have an intelligent discussion without coming off as a cocky, know it all punk, then why should I continue to bother telling you what i think? I said the tackles were weak, not the entire offensive line. And in case you have been asleep, we've added two really good linebackers along with Bunkley to help Solidify that defense. What we need is a pass rush, and we didn't get a pass rusher in Hicks. If he pans out he would help push the pocket some, and that would be good, but we need guys who specialize in rushing the QB. However, I believe that with Galette, Wilson, Romeus and maybe even Cam Jordan, there is a good young core of players that Spagnuolo will bring up and make them good pass rushers. Now you can disagree with that if you want, but a lot of people agree with that sentiment, it's not just me. I would have had no problem with a DT there if it had been someone I thought had a chance to help us more than Massie. I would have liked to see them take Jared Crick, but apparently they didn't want him. You forget that we got in a hole last year against the 49ers because the offense kept turning it over. We were one dimensional the whole game and they got after Brees, and we made a lot of mistakes. To their credit, they fought back, but THEN the defense collapsed. And who was it that got beat repeatedly in those last two drives? Harper and Jenkins... Can't blame that one on Rogers and Franklin as bad as they may have been at times last year. Every position is important, and when you have a chance to get a really good player, you get him. The Saints wanted Hicks more than any other player, so there's nothing more to say about it. I just thought I'd throw my two cents in like everyone else, but obviously you are determined to disagree with everything I say. I don't need you to agree with me. And lastly, I saw whatever footage was available, whether it be NFL.com or youtube, or whatever. What does it matter, exactly, where I see it? It's there to be seen, and I saw it. Are you going to tell me I wasn't looking at the same player? What are you basing your opinion on? Have you personally scouted him? Every piece of information that you've gotten on him is the same thing that is available to everyone else, and I'm going with what I can see and read. You're a hypocrite if you think you have any more right to assume you know what kind of player he is, or will be, than I do. And I don't EVEN assume he won't be good, I just have serious doubts. Is that ok? He's a nice prospect, but I didn't want him there. But just as I don't need you agreeing with me, the Saints don't need anyone to agree with them. It's just an opinion, now move on.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

04-29-2012, 07:27 PM	#2
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by burningmetal Have you personally scouted him? No, I haven't. And neither have you. You saw a couple clips posted here and there, read a couple things this guy and that guy wrote about him (and this and that guy likely didn't scout him either). And I do remember the offense turning the ball over against the Whiners, but I also remember the Whiners going very conservative on offense after they went up 17-0. And when the chips were down, when the only thing the defense needed was 1 stop out of 4 defensive stands in the 4th quarter, they couldn't do it, including an 80-yard TD drive by Alex Smith with 1:32 on the clock. The point I am trying to make is very simple: Offense has been awesome. Defense has been horrible. Get whatever is needed ( or whatever Spagnuolo thinks is needed) to fix the reason why the Saints don't have at least 3 rings today. As for this Massie fellow, well, he doesn't exactly come with Muñoz or Roaf or Pace credentials either, does he? He may have been rated the 7th or 8th "best" tackle in the draft, but what does that tell you, really? What makes you so sure to say an inconsistent tackle leaving college early is going to solidify anything?
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

04-29-2012, 09:01 PM	#3
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper No, I haven't. And neither have you. You saw a couple clips posted here and there, read a couple things this guy and that guy wrote about him (and this and that guy likely didn't scout him either). And I do remember the offense turning the ball over against the Whiners, but I also remember the Whiners going very conservative on offense after they went up 17-0. And when the chips were down, when the only thing the defense needed was 1 stop out of 4 defensive stands in the 4th quarter, they couldn't do it, including an 80-yard TD drive by Alex Smith with 1:32 on the clock. The point I am trying to make is very simple: Offense has been awesome. Defense has been horrible. Get whatever is needed ( or whatever Spagnuolo thinks is needed) to fix the reason why the Saints don't have at least 3 rings today. As for this Massie fellow, well, he doesn't exactly come with Muñoz or Roaf or Pace credentials either, does he? He may have been rated the 7th or 8th "best" tackle in the draft, but what does that tell you, really? What makes you so sure to say an inconsistent tackle leaving college early is going to solidify anything? You are so self righteous, it is incredible. No, of course I didn't scout him either. I can only go on everything that has been said, and what I have been able to see of him. And the point I made was extremely simple. You didn't scout him, so you are going on the same information I have. That was the point. I don't need you to say "you didn't scout him either", when the subject was about you, not me. I never pretended to know everything about him, but who among us does? So if you can say you think he's gonna be good, I can say the opposite, can't I? As for Massie, he was graded as a second rounder which makes him a lot better than the 7th or 8th best tackle, but as an LSU fan I have also seen him play in the SEC and I always thought of him as a first round talent. Clearly, he was someone we could have worked with. And you dodged the point about the 49er game. I asked you who got burned twice at the end... The safeties. I don't care how conservative their game plan was, it was still the safeties who blew it, along with GW's stupid decision to blitz and leave them on an island. Our defense WAS bad, absolutely. Again, we've already done a lot to fix that through free agency. But whatever man, keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better than me. I'm just a fan.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

04-29-2012, 09:03 PM	#4
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	You two take it to the smacktalk board, I'm tired of reading the nonsense pherein and FinSaint like this.

04-29-2012, 09:32 PM	#5
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by burningmetal You are so self righteous, it is incredible. No, of course I didn't scout him either. I can only go on everything that has been said, and what I have been able to see of him. And the point I made was extremely simple. You didn't scout him, so you are going on the same information I have. That was the point. I don't need you to say "you didn't scout him either", when the subject was about you, not me. I never pretended to know everything about him, but who among us does? So if you can say you think he's gonna be good, I can say the opposite, can't I? As for Massie, he was graded as a second rounder which makes him a lot better than the 7th or 8th best tackle, but as an LSU fan I have also seen him play in the SEC and I always thought of him as a first round talent. Clearly, he was someone we could have worked with. And you dodged the point about the 49er game. I asked you who got burned twice at the end... The safeties. I don't care how conservative their game plan was, it was still the safeties who blew it, along with GW's stupid decision to blitz and leave them on an island. Our defense WAS bad, absolutely. Again, we've already done a lot to fix that through free agency. But whatever man, keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better than me. I'm just a fan. I am not dodging anything. The safeties got burned because indeed GW sent everyone but the safeties to blitz, and obviously none of the blitzers got to the QB, no? The guys in the middle didn't make a strong push to collapse the pocket or take a second defender with them. Anyway...

04-30-2012, 01:40 AM	#6
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Dude, believe what you will, I've said my peace and then some. and Mitch, sorry man, but if you don't like it you don't have to read it. When someone takes initiative to talk down to me over not liking a pick, I will defend myself. It's BS that a fellow Saints fan would want to start an argument with me over nothing.

04-30-2012, 04:38 AM	#7
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	lol, he's got a point mitch. They both have a right to defend their positions. Kind of a reason why you have a thread in the first place. Wether or not you want to hear it, is where you should get off your comfortable horse and stop reading. lol A thread without opposing views where one guy gets banned, if its not completely pro saints, is the saintsreport I thought. burningmetal has a point of view thats not popular, but more than that, he's supporting it by posting against anyone that post against him. Its possible he's just being confrontational , supporting a view with no reason for sake of argument. OR its possible everyone else is. But thats why we have threads. To further our own knowledge and personal development, be proven wrong or right, or not sure. To listen or be listened to. Ramble, say what we think we mean, and get ripped apart. Its all good. The guys that post and defend their arguments without listening to others get a reputation as being useless to talk to, and their future opinions get greatly devalued. Guys willing to work things out and see the others point of view go on to be important to the black and gold, like you mitch. Which might be why its bothering you,lol. Your not seeing either side let up, and that can get annoying. No you don't know what Im say.. No you don't know what Im say.. No I didn't mean that.. No I didn't mean that.. Your saying.. No Im not saying that.. What are you saying.. It gets old after awhile when people only read what they want to read in a post and not what was posted. I completely get where you coming from. But you have to admit, its pretty funny sometimes
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 04-30-2012 at 05:26 AM..

04-30-2012, 06:08 AM	#8
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by burningmetal It's BS that a fellow Saints fan would want to start an argument with me over nothing. If its nothing why are you arguing about it ? Don't make points that make your point look silly. Not trying to be rude, just pointing out the obvious. I would like to be entertained by this argument at some point.
	Last edited by pherein; 04-30-2012 at 06:24 AM..

04-30-2012, 10:20 AM	#9
canucksaint 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 227	I think this pick is a very interesting one. With the Saints not having a 1st or 2nd, I would think that they would have spent a considerable more amount of time looking at lower round prospect than other teams, therefore I would assume that they would have a better feel for some of these "diamonds in the rough" than others. I do understand some of the concerns that he played in Canada, and by no means is the competition the same, however one also has acknowledge that another Canadian player was drafted in the 4th round by the Chargers a couple years ago (Vaughan Martin) and he is now their starting DT. Seems like his size and stats equally compare.

04-30-2012, 03:42 PM	#10
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by pherein If its nothing why are you arguing about it ? Don't make points that make your point look silly. Not trying to be rude, just pointing out the obvious. I would like to be entertained by this argument at some point. Because I didn't bash anyone for liking the pick, pherein. I said I didn't like the pick and stated why. I thought there were better players available, and I might be right or I might be wrong. That goes for anyone's opinion of anybody the Saints picked. But a couple people decided that it was so egregious that I didn't like the pick, to jump all over me about reading scouting reports and watching whatever footage there was to see, and drawing my conclusions from that. Just what exactly is everyone else drawing conclusions from? The guy is a project, who some obviously like, but I am not sold. When someone insults my intelligence just because I happen to doubt a player, I get really annoyed, and that's when I decide to speak my mind. There's nothing silly about what I said. Why would I change my opinion to suit someone else, when it's not what I believe? I see why people have high hopes for him, but I also see reason to doubt. I don't get where that's such a hard thing to understand. It's up to Hicks to change minds, one way or another.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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