Saints don’t think Mark Ingram will be 100 percent when camp starts

SaintsBro · 05-16-2012, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

when we were already crowded in the backfield. .

Crowded in the backfield? Where were you in the end of 2010, when we were frantically signing running backs off the street, guys who were stadium security guards and RB's who were sitting on the couch after being dropped from other teams' practice squads? The only thing that was crowded was the IR list (5 running backs on IR). So, the extremely logical move for the Saints at that point, to prevent it from happening again, was to sign a big, bruising, forward-falling SEC type power running back. Sure, lots of guys win the Heisman and go on to be busts in the pros, but not too many guys win the Heisman and a national championship in the same year -- the last one to do that was Tony Dorsett, so the kid is in pretty good company.

Danno · 05-16-2012, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

Crowded in the backfield? Where were you in the end of 2010, when we were frantically signing running backs off the street, guys who were stadium security guards and RB's who were sitting on the couch after being dropped from other teams' practice squads? The only thing that was crowded was the IR list (5 running backs on IR). So, the extremely logical move for the Saints at that point, to prevent it from happening again, was to sign a big, bruising, forward-falling SEC type power running back. Sure, lots of guys win the Heisman and go on to be busts in the pros, but not too many guys win the Heisman and a national championship in the same year -- the last one to do that was Tony Dorsett, so the kid is in pretty good company.

True. At that time we had Reggie, who we weren't going to keep
Julius Jones
DeShawn Wynn
Joique Bell

PT and Ivory were out with serious injuries. Ivory's LizFranc is often a career ender.

Where do people get this "we were loaded at RB" crap from?

burningmetal · 05-17-2012, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

True. At that time we had Reggie, who we weren't going to keep
Julius Jones
DeShawn Wynn
Joique Bell

PT and Ivory were out with serious injuries. Ivory's LizFranc is often a career ender.

Where do people get this "we were loaded at RB" crap from?

If you believe it's "crap" that some of us, such as myself, said we were crowded or loaded at RB, then consider this: We finished 6th in the league in rushing yards per game. Our leading rusher was Darren Sproles with 603 yards... On only 87 carries (That still boggles my mind). When you are 6th in the entire league in rushing and your leading rusher only has 603 yards, it means a lot of guys are contributing. They were all hurt the year before, but they all came back - with the exception of Bush being traded, but obviously we replaced him nicely - and played very well.

Ivory had 374 yards and averaged 4.7 per carry.
Thomas had 562 yards and averaged 5.1
Sproles, as mentioned, had 603 yards and averaged 6.9
Ingram had 474 yards and averaged 3.9.... If he weren't on the team, the other three could have easily picked up the slack, and did just that when he missed all those games.

Then you add the forgotten man in all this, Joique Bell, who was the most impressive RB in camp, but didn't make the cut, and that sounds like a pretty crowded backfield. I'm all for depth, but they gave Pierre a pretty hefty deal for a guy coming off injury, so they obviously had faith in him. Then came the Sproles Signing after drafting Ingram. I loved the Sproles sign, and obviously it turned out even better than we could have imagined, but it makes the Ingram pick in the middle seem pretty weird. You don't usually draft for depth in the first round. But they sure did that time.

Danno · 05-17-2012, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

If you believe it's "crap" that some of us, such as myself, said we were crowded or loaded at RB, then consider this: We finished 6th in the league in rushing yards per game. Our leading rusher was Darren Sproles with 603 yards... On only 87 carries (That still boggles my mind). When you are 6th in the entire league in rushing and your leading rusher only has 603 yards, it means a lot of guys are contributing. They were all hurt the year before, but they all came back - with the exception of Bush being traded, but obviously we replaced him nicely - and played very well.

Ivory had 374 yards and averaged 4.7 per carry.
Thomas had 562 yards and averaged 5.1
Sproles, as mentioned, had 603 yards and averaged 6.9
Ingram had 474 yards and averaged 3.9.... If he weren't on the team, the other three could have easily picked up the slack, and did just that when he missed all those games.

Then you add the forgotten man in all this, Joique Bell, who was the most impressive RB in camp, but didn't make the cut, and that sounds like a pretty crowded backfield. I'm all for depth, but they gave Pierre a pretty hefty deal for a guy coming off injury, so they obviously had faith in him. Then came the Sproles Signing after drafting Ingram. I loved the Sproles sign, and obviously it turned out even better than we could have imagined, but it makes the Ingram pick in the middle seem pretty weird. You don't usually draft for depth in the first round. But they sure did that time.

You aren't comprehending. At the time we drafted Ingram, we were not loaded at RB.

Again, and again, and again...

No one knew if Ivory would ever play another down of NFL football,

PT missed 11 games with an ankle injury, and then had surgery on it,

Everyone knew Bush was gone.

We did not have Darren Sproles.

We had one healthy RB on the roster with potential, and he was claimed off of another team's practice squad.

So yes, claiming we were loaded at RB when we drafted Ingram is what I call "crap". Actually I'd call it something else but our word filters would asterisk it.

burningmetal · 05-17-2012, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

Crowded in the backfield? Where were you in the end of 2010, when we were frantically signing running backs off the street, guys who were stadium security guards and RB's who were sitting on the couch after being dropped from other teams' practice squads? The only thing that was crowded was the IR list (5 running backs on IR). So, the extremely logical move for the Saints at that point, to prevent it from happening again, was to sign a big, bruising, forward-falling SEC type power running back. Sure, lots of guys win the Heisman and go on to be busts in the pros, but not too many guys win the Heisman and a national championship in the same year -- the last one to do that was Tony Dorsett, so the kid is in pretty good company.

Yes, that was due to injuries. But they all came back. Then we go and draft another injury prone back... That's my point, and it couldn't have been made more clearly. And by the way, Joique Bell was quite impressive in camp and preseason as a power runner, who also displayed pretty good speed and outstanding vision. But he didn't make it because they had already committed to Ingram by virtue of drafting him in the 1st round.

Your description of Ingram as a bruising, forward falling SEC back is your view of him. I specifically said that I didn't see anything about him that was worthy of trading up for, and I meant it. He is really not a bruiser, in my opinion. If he gets a head of steam he can plow a little bit, but he gets stood up at the line a lot, which is not a sign of a true power back. A lot was made of that scrimmage last year when he knocked Harper over... but after that, I don't recall anything that resembled that play. I know he was a rookie, but his durability is a problem right now, and that is not a good answer to a backfield that had injury problems the year before. I think he'll develop enough to be a decent player, but I don't think he's a need guy. Just my two cents.

hagan714 · 05-16-2012, 05:35 AM

well we picked him so i back the kid.

i still think with the saints system we can survive with without a true #1 RB in the nfl sense of the word.

i think the saints should look at fa or rfa as an option over high draft picks at rb.

darstep · 05-16-2012, 11:08 AM

May, June, July, August...
I think he'll be OK. There is no rush to get him back.
I'd rather see him fully recovered and healthy long term,
than to have him gingerly trying to avoid that knee and rip the other one.
I've seen it time and time again.

WHODAT! · 05-18-2012, 03:58 AM

Loomis is a draft genius, he just missed on this one. Basically two wasted 1st round picks.

Danno · 05-18-2012, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by WHODAT!

Loomis is a draft genius, he just missed on this one. Basically two wasted 1st round picks.

Wasted? How so?

QBREES9 · 05-18-2012, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by WHODAT!

Loomis is a draft genius, he just missed on this one. Basically two wasted 1st round picks.

What ? what was that.

05-16-2012, 10:47 AM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Originally Posted by SaintsBro Crowded in the backfield? Where were you in the end of 2010, when we were frantically signing running backs off the street, guys who were stadium security guards and RB's who were sitting on the couch after being dropped from other teams' practice squads? The only thing that was crowded was the IR list (5 running backs on IR). So, the extremely logical move for the Saints at that point, to prevent it from happening again, was to sign a big, bruising, forward-falling SEC type power running back. Sure, lots of guys win the Heisman and go on to be busts in the pros, but not too many guys win the Heisman and a national championship in the same year -- the last one to do that was Tony Dorsett, so the kid is in pretty good company. True. At that time we had Reggie, who we weren't going to keep Julius Jones DeShawn Wynn Joique Bell PT and Ivory were out with serious injuries. Ivory's LizFranc is often a career ender. Where do people get this "we were loaded at RB" crap from?

05-17-2012, 04:50 AM	#3
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by Danno True. At that time we had Reggie, who we weren't going to keep Julius Jones DeShawn Wynn Joique Bell PT and Ivory were out with serious injuries. Ivory's LizFranc is often a career ender. Where do people get this "we were loaded at RB" crap from? If you believe it's "crap" that some of us, such as myself, said we were crowded or loaded at RB, then consider this: We finished 6th in the league in rushing yards per game. Our leading rusher was Darren Sproles with 603 yards... On only 87 carries (That still boggles my mind). When you are 6th in the entire league in rushing and your leading rusher only has 603 yards, it means a lot of guys are contributing. They were all hurt the year before, but they all came back - with the exception of Bush being traded, but obviously we replaced him nicely - and played very well. Ivory had 374 yards and averaged 4.7 per carry. Thomas had 562 yards and averaged 5.1 Sproles, as mentioned, had 603 yards and averaged 6.9 Ingram had 474 yards and averaged 3.9.... If he weren't on the team, the other three could have easily picked up the slack, and did just that when he missed all those games. Then you add the forgotten man in all this, Joique Bell, who was the most impressive RB in camp, but didn't make the cut, and that sounds like a pretty crowded backfield. I'm all for depth, but they gave Pierre a pretty hefty deal for a guy coming off injury, so they obviously had faith in him. Then came the Sproles Signing after drafting Ingram. I loved the Sproles sign, and obviously it turned out even better than we could have imagined, but it makes the Ingram pick in the middle seem pretty weird. You don't usually draft for depth in the first round. But they sure did that time.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

05-17-2012, 08:18 AM	#4
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Originally Posted by burningmetal If you believe it's "crap" that some of us, such as myself, said we were crowded or loaded at RB, then consider this: We finished 6th in the league in rushing yards per game. Our leading rusher was Darren Sproles with 603 yards... On only 87 carries (That still boggles my mind). When you are 6th in the entire league in rushing and your leading rusher only has 603 yards, it means a lot of guys are contributing. They were all hurt the year before, but they all came back - with the exception of Bush being traded, but obviously we replaced him nicely - and played very well. Ivory had 374 yards and averaged 4.7 per carry. Thomas had 562 yards and averaged 5.1 Sproles, as mentioned, had 603 yards and averaged 6.9 Ingram had 474 yards and averaged 3.9.... If he weren't on the team, the other three could have easily picked up the slack, and did just that when he missed all those games. Then you add the forgotten man in all this, Joique Bell, who was the most impressive RB in camp, but didn't make the cut, and that sounds like a pretty crowded backfield. I'm all for depth, but they gave Pierre a pretty hefty deal for a guy coming off injury, so they obviously had faith in him. Then came the Sproles Signing after drafting Ingram. I loved the Sproles sign, and obviously it turned out even better than we could have imagined, but it makes the Ingram pick in the middle seem pretty weird. You don't usually draft for depth in the first round. But they sure did that time. You aren't comprehending. At the time we drafted Ingram, we were not loaded at RB. Again, and again, and again... No one knew if Ivory would ever play another down of NFL football, PT missed 11 games with an ankle injury, and then had surgery on it, Everyone knew Bush was gone. We did not have Darren Sproles. We had one healthy RB on the roster with potential, and he was claimed off of another team's practice squad. So yes, claiming we were loaded at RB when we drafted Ingram is what I call "crap". Actually I'd call it something else but our word filters would asterisk it. Rugby Saint II likes this.

05-17-2012, 04:03 AM	#5
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by SaintsBro Crowded in the backfield? Where were you in the end of 2010, when we were frantically signing running backs off the street, guys who were stadium security guards and RB's who were sitting on the couch after being dropped from other teams' practice squads? The only thing that was crowded was the IR list (5 running backs on IR). So, the extremely logical move for the Saints at that point, to prevent it from happening again, was to sign a big, bruising, forward-falling SEC type power running back. Sure, lots of guys win the Heisman and go on to be busts in the pros, but not too many guys win the Heisman and a national championship in the same year -- the last one to do that was Tony Dorsett, so the kid is in pretty good company. Yes, that was due to injuries. But they all came back. Then we go and draft another injury prone back... That's my point, and it couldn't have been made more clearly. And by the way, Joique Bell was quite impressive in camp and preseason as a power runner, who also displayed pretty good speed and outstanding vision. But he didn't make it because they had already committed to Ingram by virtue of drafting him in the 1st round. Your description of Ingram as a bruising, forward falling SEC back is your view of him. I specifically said that I didn't see anything about him that was worthy of trading up for, and I meant it. He is really not a bruiser, in my opinion. If he gets a head of steam he can plow a little bit, but he gets stood up at the line a lot, which is not a sign of a true power back. A lot was made of that scrimmage last year when he knocked Harper over... but after that, I don't recall anything that resembled that play. I know he was a rookie, but his durability is a problem right now, and that is not a good answer to a backfield that had injury problems the year before. I think he'll develop enough to be a decent player, but I don't think he's a need guy. Just my two cents.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

05-16-2012, 05:35 AM	#6
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	well we picked him so i back the kid. i still think with the saints system we can survive with without a true #1 RB in the nfl sense of the word. i think the saints should look at fa or rfa as an option over high draft picks at rb. darstep likes this.

05-16-2012, 09:59 AM	#1
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by burningmetal when we were already crowded in the backfield. . Crowded in the backfield? Where were you in the end of 2010, when we were frantically signing running backs off the street, guys who were stadium security guards and RB's who were sitting on the couch after being dropped from other teams' practice squads? The only thing that was crowded was the IR list (5 running backs on IR). So, the extremely logical move for the Saints at that point, to prevent it from happening again, was to sign a big, bruising, forward-falling SEC type power running back. Sure, lots of guys win the Heisman and go on to be busts in the pros, but not too many guys win the Heisman and a national championship in the same year -- the last one to do that was Tony Dorsett, so the kid is in pretty good company.

05-16-2012, 11:08 AM	#7
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	May, June, July, August... I think he'll be OK. There is no rush to get him back. I'd rather see him fully recovered and healthy long term, than to have him gingerly trying to avoid that knee and rip the other one. I've seen it time and time again.

05-18-2012, 03:58 AM	#8
WHODAT! Rookie Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1	Loomis is a draft genius, he just missed on this one. Basically two wasted 1st round picks.
WHODAT! Rookie Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1

05-18-2012, 09:44 AM	#9
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Originally Posted by WHODAT! Loomis is a draft genius, he just missed on this one. Basically two wasted 1st round picks. Wasted? How so?

05-18-2012, 09:53 AM	#10
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,990	Originally Posted by WHODAT! Loomis is a draft genius, he just missed on this one. Basically two wasted 1st round picks. What ? what was that.