Saints don’t think Mark Ingram will be 100 percent when camp starts

SaintsBro · 05-17-2012, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

You aren't comprehending. At the time we drafted Ingram, we were not loaded at RB.

Again, and again, and again...

No one knew if Ivory would ever play another down of NFL football,

PT missed 11 games with an ankle injury, and then had surgery on it,

Everyone knew Bush was gone.

We did not have Darren Sproles.

We had one healthy RB on the roster with potential, and he was claimed off of another team's practice squad.

So yes, claiming we were loaded at RB when we drafted Ingram is what I call "crap". Actually I'd call it something else but our word filters would asterisk it.

Exactly 100%. No one knew they would all come back. PT's injury was a situation like, WTF is going on there, nobody really knew if he would be back AT ALL. We weren't "loaded" at RB and Ingram's "not a need guy"? It was a GLARING NEED, as the second half of the Seahawks playoff game indicated.

And Ingram wasn't drafted just for "depth," at all. He was drafted for the future -- ie 2-3-4 years down the road from now. To me, I see him as being drafted to eventually replace either Ivory or Pierre, down the road, very much the same way that Pierre and Aaron Stecker were sort of battling it out behind Deuce as Deuce McAllister was going downhill in his last days. If he works out, I see Ingram as a solid reliable guy that Drew is going to be handing off a lot to, in Drew's twilight years, after Pierre is gone.

Ingram's also a NON-FUMBLING kind of guy, which I'm sure makes him attractive to Payton, next to Ivory and some of the others who fumble all over the place. You pretty much have to break a knee or ankle or knock him totally unconscious to get Pierre Thomas to fumble. They like that. Some of Ivory's fumbles look like he is throwing the ball at the other team. They don't like that.

I think Payton has basically two kinds of running backs that he works with -- there are guys he trusts and "hangs his hat on," like Deuce, Pierre, Sproles. And then there are the guys he just kind of plugs in there, to see what they can do, or to get whatever he can get out of them. "Throw 'em against the wall to see what sticks" kind of guys. That's your Chris Ivory, PJ Hill, Joique Bell, Mike Bell, Lynell Hamilton, Aaron Stecker type Saints running back. And yes, I love him but I don't think Ivory has quite made it onto that "guys Payton trusts" list just yet.

Those guys go in and out of the doghouse, on again off again, Payton gets interested, but then it's kinda like he gets ADD, and he gives up on them pretty quickly and moves on. But on the other hand, Deuce, Thomas and Sproles, he never gives up on those guys, they are clearly HIS guys.

Pierre started out as one of those plug-and-play guys, but worked his way up to being someone that Payton really trusts. But I see Ingram as eventually being more of that type of guy, a guy Payton can hang his hat on. Maybe he's not living up to your extremely high expectations right now, this very instant -- we do live in an instant gratification world -- but he is definitely a "need" guy based on the lack of viable running backs at the end of the Seattle fiasco.

burningmetal · 05-17-2012, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

Exactly 100%. No one knew they would all come back. PT's injury was a situation like, WTF is going on there, nobody really knew if he would be back AT ALL. We weren't "loaded" at RB and Ingram's "not a need guy"? It was a GLARING NEED, as the second half of the Seahawks playoff game indicated.

And Ingram wasn't drafted just for "depth," at all. He was drafted for the future -- ie 2-3-4 years down the road from now. To me, I see him as being drafted to eventually replace either Ivory or Pierre, down the road, very much the same way that Pierre and Aaron Stecker were sort of battling it out behind Deuce as Deuce McAllister was going downhill in his last days. If he works out, I see Ingram as a solid reliable guy that Drew is going to be handing off a lot to, in Drew's twilight years, after Pierre is gone.

Ingram's also a NON-FUMBLING kind of guy, which I'm sure makes him attractive to Payton, next to Ivory and some of the others who fumble all over the place. You pretty much have to break a knee or ankle or knock him totally unconscious to get Pierre Thomas to fumble. They like that. Some of Ivory's fumbles look like he is throwing the ball at the other team. They don't like that.

I think Payton has basically two kinds of running backs that he works with -- there are guys he trusts and "hangs his hat on," like Deuce, Pierre, Sproles. And then there are the guys he just kind of plugs in there, to see what they can do, or to get whatever he can get out of them. "Throw 'em against the wall to see what sticks" kind of guys. That's your Chris Ivory, PJ Hill, Joique Bell, Mike Bell, Lynell Hamilton, Aaron Stecker type Saints running back. And yes, I love him but I don't think Ivory has quite made it onto that "guys Payton trusts" list just yet.

Those guys go in and out of the doghouse, on again off again, Payton gets interested, but then it's kinda like he gets ADD, and he gives up on them pretty quickly and moves on. But on the other hand, Deuce, Thomas and Sproles, he never gives up on those guys, they are clearly HIS guys.

Pierre started out as one of those plug-and-play guys, but worked his way up to being someone that Payton really trusts. But I see Ingram as eventually being more of that type of guy, a guy Payton can hang his hat on. Maybe he's not living up to your extremely high expectations right now, this very instant -- we do live in an instant gratification world -- but he is definitely a "need" guy based on the lack of viable running backs at the end of the Seattle fiasco.

Yes, we had Pierre and Stecker when Deuce was going downhill. How high did we draft them? What did we give up to get them? Pierre was undrafted and Stecker, I'm pretty sure he wasn't either, but either way we signed him from another team at a very low cost.

This is the point I'm making. You don't draft a RB for 3 or 4 years down the road. RB's typically have very short careers, so if you're drafting a guy in the 1st, he better be the guy this year or next. Otherwise find a RB later in the draft. Yeah, I know, we lost in Seattle and had no RB's. None of those guys suffered career enders. Ivory was the biggest question mark, but by the time the draft rolled around, he was doing a lot better, so there was no reason to think he wouldn't be back. And as I said to Danno above, they wouldn't have given Thomas a 5 year deal if they thought he was done. Frankly they wouldn't have if they thought he was even close to done. I get where you're coming from about the injuries the previous year, but there was no reason to assume that all those guys wouldn't be back. Injuries happen, it's the game. You can plan a million years ahead if you'd like. But you can't control what happens in an instant.

05-17-2012, 10:39 AM	#1
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by Danno You aren't comprehending. At the time we drafted Ingram, we were not loaded at RB. Again, and again, and again... No one knew if Ivory would ever play another down of NFL football, PT missed 11 games with an ankle injury, and then had surgery on it, Everyone knew Bush was gone. We did not have Darren Sproles. We had one healthy RB on the roster with potential, and he was claimed off of another team's practice squad. So yes, claiming we were loaded at RB when we drafted Ingram is what I call "crap". Actually I'd call it something else but our word filters would asterisk it. Exactly 100%. No one knew they would all come back. PT's injury was a situation like, WTF is going on there, nobody really knew if he would be back AT ALL. We weren't "loaded" at RB and Ingram's "not a need guy"? It was a GLARING NEED, as the second half of the Seahawks playoff game indicated. And Ingram wasn't drafted just for "depth," at all. He was drafted for the future -- ie 2-3-4 years down the road from now. To me, I see him as being drafted to eventually replace either Ivory or Pierre, down the road, very much the same way that Pierre and Aaron Stecker were sort of battling it out behind Deuce as Deuce McAllister was going downhill in his last days. If he works out, I see Ingram as a solid reliable guy that Drew is going to be handing off a lot to, in Drew's twilight years, after Pierre is gone. Ingram's also a NON-FUMBLING kind of guy, which I'm sure makes him attractive to Payton, next to Ivory and some of the others who fumble all over the place. You pretty much have to break a knee or ankle or knock him totally unconscious to get Pierre Thomas to fumble. They like that. Some of Ivory's fumbles look like he is throwing the ball at the other team. They don't like that. I think Payton has basically two kinds of running backs that he works with -- there are guys he trusts and "hangs his hat on," like Deuce, Pierre, Sproles. And then there are the guys he just kind of plugs in there, to see what they can do, or to get whatever he can get out of them. "Throw 'em against the wall to see what sticks" kind of guys. That's your Chris Ivory, PJ Hill, Joique Bell, Mike Bell, Lynell Hamilton, Aaron Stecker type Saints running back. And yes, I love him but I don't think Ivory has quite made it onto that "guys Payton trusts" list just yet. Those guys go in and out of the doghouse, on again off again, Payton gets interested, but then it's kinda like he gets ADD, and he gives up on them pretty quickly and moves on. But on the other hand, Deuce, Thomas and Sproles, he never gives up on those guys, they are clearly HIS guys. Pierre started out as one of those plug-and-play guys, but worked his way up to being someone that Payton really trusts. But I see Ingram as eventually being more of that type of guy, a guy Payton can hang his hat on. Maybe he's not living up to your extremely high expectations right now, this very instant -- we do live in an instant gratification world -- but he is definitely a "need" guy based on the lack of viable running backs at the end of the Seattle fiasco.

05-17-2012, 05:56 PM	#2
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by SaintsBro Exactly 100%. No one knew they would all come back. PT's injury was a situation like, WTF is going on there, nobody really knew if he would be back AT ALL. We weren't "loaded" at RB and Ingram's "not a need guy"? It was a GLARING NEED, as the second half of the Seahawks playoff game indicated. And Ingram wasn't drafted just for "depth," at all. He was drafted for the future -- ie 2-3-4 years down the road from now. To me, I see him as being drafted to eventually replace either Ivory or Pierre, down the road, very much the same way that Pierre and Aaron Stecker were sort of battling it out behind Deuce as Deuce McAllister was going downhill in his last days. If he works out, I see Ingram as a solid reliable guy that Drew is going to be handing off a lot to, in Drew's twilight years, after Pierre is gone. Ingram's also a NON-FUMBLING kind of guy, which I'm sure makes him attractive to Payton, next to Ivory and some of the others who fumble all over the place. You pretty much have to break a knee or ankle or knock him totally unconscious to get Pierre Thomas to fumble. They like that. Some of Ivory's fumbles look like he is throwing the ball at the other team. They don't like that. I think Payton has basically two kinds of running backs that he works with -- there are guys he trusts and "hangs his hat on," like Deuce, Pierre, Sproles. And then there are the guys he just kind of plugs in there, to see what they can do, or to get whatever he can get out of them. "Throw 'em against the wall to see what sticks" kind of guys. That's your Chris Ivory, PJ Hill, Joique Bell, Mike Bell, Lynell Hamilton, Aaron Stecker type Saints running back. And yes, I love him but I don't think Ivory has quite made it onto that "guys Payton trusts" list just yet. Those guys go in and out of the doghouse, on again off again, Payton gets interested, but then it's kinda like he gets ADD, and he gives up on them pretty quickly and moves on. But on the other hand, Deuce, Thomas and Sproles, he never gives up on those guys, they are clearly HIS guys. Pierre started out as one of those plug-and-play guys, but worked his way up to being someone that Payton really trusts. But I see Ingram as eventually being more of that type of guy, a guy Payton can hang his hat on. Maybe he's not living up to your extremely high expectations right now, this very instant -- we do live in an instant gratification world -- but he is definitely a "need" guy based on the lack of viable running backs at the end of the Seattle fiasco. Yes, we had Pierre and Stecker when Deuce was going downhill. How high did we draft them? What did we give up to get them? Pierre was undrafted and Stecker, I'm pretty sure he wasn't either, but either way we signed him from another team at a very low cost. This is the point I'm making. You don't draft a RB for 3 or 4 years down the road. RB's typically have very short careers, so if you're drafting a guy in the 1st, he better be the guy this year or next. Otherwise find a RB later in the draft. Yeah, I know, we lost in Seattle and had no RB's. None of those guys suffered career enders. Ivory was the biggest question mark, but by the time the draft rolled around, he was doing a lot better, so there was no reason to think he wouldn't be back. And as I said to Danno above, they wouldn't have given Thomas a 5 year deal if they thought he was done. Frankly they wouldn't have if they thought he was even close to done. I get where you're coming from about the injuries the previous year, but there was no reason to assume that all those guys wouldn't be back. Injuries happen, it's the game. You can plan a million years ahead if you'd like. But you can't control what happens in an instant.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.