OK, So Who Do You Cut?

TheOak · 05-30-2012, 06:59 AM

Essentially from what I have heard and understand that $2.3m worth of space is where any team wants to start the season with to have room for injuries as Xan pointed out.

So we are starting with 0 cap space theoretically.

I would cut (with justification):

Vilma - Frees up 4.7m, he is presently injured; productive decline for two seasons; still very questionable if he will not be suspended; we already have his replacement.

Shanle: Frees up 1.5m, has lingering shoulder problems, production is damned near zero. His stats have been on a decline since 2008

Ellis - Frees up 5.86m only 10 tackles last year and 0.5 sacks... Dude gots to go!

With 10 LB's on the roster according to the player roster on neworleanssaints.com we can afford to make room there. Vilma and Shanle have 8 and 9 years respectively and are becoming injury prone.

Ellis and Shanle are free agents next year, Vilma is a free agent in 2014.

The argument could be made to keep Vilma for his leadership and to show loyalty, plus he still has contract life after this season... getting rid of Ellis and Shanle frees up 7.36m and neither one of them has done squat in a season or two.

Marlboro Man · 05-30-2012, 07:16 AM

Well, you're going to have to cut everyone if you're gonna pay Drew Bree's.

xan · 05-30-2012, 08:36 AM

The above depth chart was lifted from the Saints' team site, and I modified it for known (at least to me) inaccuracies.

Johnathan Vilma will count $2.8 million in cap hit out of his $5.7 million salary, with a $2.7 million savings should he not play.

For those hoping to justify a new Brees salary in the $21+million range by cutting Vilma, you're still missing some dough. So far you're failing the Mickey Loomis test.

TheOak · 05-30-2012, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by xan

The above depth chart was lifted from the Saints' team site, and I modified it for known (at least to me) inaccuracies.

Johnathan Vilma will count $2.8 million in cap hit out of his $5.7 million salary, with a $2.7 million savings should he not play.

For those hoping to justify a new Brees salary in the $21+million range by cutting Vilma, you're still missing some dough. So far you're failing the Mickey Loomis test.

Ok Xan you are going to have to explain that 2.6m to me (one mil was signing bonus)...
Vilma for 2012: $1.6 million (+ $600,000 roster bonus)... I didnt think bonuses hit the salary cap... even then its 1.6 mil

I see a lot of conflicting reports:
Jonathan Vilma - New Orleans Saints - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com
New Orleans Saints should gain about $2 million in salary-cap space from Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith suspensions - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com
Vilma suspension could lead to Brees deal - NFC South Blog - ESPN
Vilma Suspended For One Season Among Player Bounty Gate Punishments

I was wrong about the 4.7 that is in 2013
2013: $4.8 million (+ $1.1 million roster bonus),

xan · 05-30-2012, 11:25 AM

Bonuses hit the cap, and depending on what kind of bonus, they can or cannot be amortized over the life of the contract. Because his is a two year deal, the signing bonus is spread over that period, and bonuses count the year awarded. His situation is compounded by the fact that the roster bonus may be awarded before his eligibility is determined. You, as GM would have to include the bonus in your estimates. His salary for 2012 is only $1.6million, which is what would be saved against the cap by "releasing," if that wouldn't set up another lawsuit in itself....

I guess I have to call myself out on not getting the numbers right in the first place. Sentence: a year watching FoxNews.

TheOak · 05-30-2012, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by xan

Bonuses hit the cap, and depending on what kind of bonus, they can or cannot be amortized over the life of the contract. Because his is a two year deal, the signing bonus is spread over that period, and bonuses count the year awarded. His situation is compounded by the fact that the roster bonus may be awarded before his eligibility is determined. You, as GM would have to include the bonus in your estimates. His salary for 2012 is only $1.6million, which is what would be saved against the cap by "releasing," if that wouldn't set up another lawsuit in itself....

I guess I have to call myself out on not getting the numbers right in the first place. Sentence: a year watching FoxNews.

Loomis gave you a D+ and you have to spend this season watching Saints football with Pat Yaskanis.

spkb25 · 05-30-2012, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by xan

The above depth chart was lifted from the Saints' team site, and I modified it for known (at least to me) inaccuracies.

Johnathan Vilma will count $2.8 million in cap hit out of his $5.7 million salary, with a $2.7 million savings should he not play.

For those hoping to justify a new Brees salary in the $21+million range by cutting Vilma, you're still missing some dough. So far you're failing the Mickey Loomis test.

Um our 3 new lb's aren't on there, and I thought we didn't resign rogers or franklin?

I said start with

AlaskaSaints · 05-30-2012, 05:26 PM

If you mentioned Shanle, or #58, you got a "LIKE". Enjoy!

LOL

Alaska

jeanpierre · 05-31-2012, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by Cruize

D. Thomas, Herring, Shanle, Roby, and W. Smith.

Those are all very likely, except for Thomas...

Until we see what we have in training camp...

voodooido · 05-31-2012, 10:22 AM

This is not even close to the roster we have so the point is nul and void

05-30-2012, 06:59 AM	#11
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Essentially from what I have heard and understand that $2.3m worth of space is where any team wants to start the season with to have room for injuries as Xan pointed out. So we are starting with 0 cap space theoretically. I would cut (with justification): Vilma - Frees up 4.7m, he is presently injured; productive decline for two seasons; still very questionable if he will not be suspended; we already have his replacement. Shanle: Frees up 1.5m, has lingering shoulder problems, production is damned near zero. His stats have been on a decline since 2008 Ellis - Frees up 5.86m only 10 tackles last year and 0.5 sacks... Dude gots to go! With 10 LB's on the roster according to the player roster on neworleanssaints.com we can afford to make room there. Vilma and Shanle have 8 and 9 years respectively and are becoming injury prone. Ellis and Shanle are free agents next year, Vilma is a free agent in 2014. The argument could be made to keep Vilma for his leadership and to show loyalty, plus he still has contract life after this season... getting rid of Ellis and Shanle frees up 7.36m and neither one of them has done squat in a season or two. spkb25 and AlaskaSaints like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

05-30-2012, 09:04 AM	#14
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Originally Posted by xan The above depth chart was lifted from the Saints' team site, and I modified it for known (at least to me) inaccuracies. Johnathan Vilma will count $2.8 million in cap hit out of his $5.7 million salary, with a $2.7 million savings should he not play. For those hoping to justify a new Brees salary in the $21+million range by cutting Vilma, you're still missing some dough. So far you're failing the Mickey Loomis test. Ok Xan you are going to have to explain that 2.6m to me (one mil was signing bonus)... Vilma for 2012: $1.6 million (+ $600,000 roster bonus)... I didnt think bonuses hit the salary cap... even then its 1.6 mil I see a lot of conflicting reports: Jonathan Vilma - New Orleans Saints - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com New Orleans Saints should gain about $2 million in salary-cap space from Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith suspensions - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com Vilma suspension could lead to Brees deal - NFC South Blog - ESPN Vilma Suspended For One Season Among Player Bounty Gate Punishments I was wrong about the 4.7 that is in 2013 2013: $4.8 million (+ $1.1 million roster bonus),
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

05-30-2012, 11:25 AM	#15
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,368 Blog Entries: 34	Bonuses hit the cap, and depending on what kind of bonus, they can or cannot be amortized over the life of the contract. Because his is a two year deal, the signing bonus is spread over that period, and bonuses count the year awarded. His situation is compounded by the fact that the roster bonus may be awarded before his eligibility is determined. You, as GM would have to include the bonus in your estimates. His salary for 2012 is only $1.6million, which is what would be saved against the cap by "releasing," if that wouldn't set up another lawsuit in itself.... I guess I have to call myself out on not getting the numbers right in the first place. Sentence: a year watching FoxNews. Rugby Saint II, TheOak and jcp026 like this.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

05-30-2012, 12:01 PM	#16
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Originally Posted by xan Bonuses hit the cap, and depending on what kind of bonus, they can or cannot be amortized over the life of the contract. Because his is a two year deal, the signing bonus is spread over that period, and bonuses count the year awarded. His situation is compounded by the fact that the roster bonus may be awarded before his eligibility is determined. You, as GM would have to include the bonus in your estimates. His salary for 2012 is only $1.6million, which is what would be saved against the cap by "releasing," if that wouldn't set up another lawsuit in itself.... I guess I have to call myself out on not getting the numbers right in the first place. Sentence: a year watching FoxNews. Loomis gave you a D+ and you have to spend this season watching Saints football with Pat Yaskanis. xan likes this.

05-30-2012, 04:58 PM	#17
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,093	Originally Posted by xan The above depth chart was lifted from the Saints' team site, and I modified it for known (at least to me) inaccuracies. Johnathan Vilma will count $2.8 million in cap hit out of his $5.7 million salary, with a $2.7 million savings should he not play. For those hoping to justify a new Brees salary in the $21+million range by cutting Vilma, you're still missing some dough. So far you're failing the Mickey Loomis test. Um our 3 new lb's aren't on there, and I thought we didn't resign rogers or franklin? I said start with

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05-30-2012, 07:16 AM	#12
Marlboro Man 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,469	Well, you're going to have to cut everyone if you're gonna pay Drew Bree's.

05-30-2012, 08:36 AM	#13
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,368 Blog Entries: 34	The above depth chart was lifted from the Saints' team site, and I modified it for known (at least to me) inaccuracies. Johnathan Vilma will count $2.8 million in cap hit out of his $5.7 million salary, with a $2.7 million savings should he not play. For those hoping to justify a new Brees salary in the $21+million range by cutting Vilma, you're still missing some dough. So far you're failing the Mickey Loomis test.

05-30-2012, 05:26 PM	#18
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	If you mentioned Shanle, or #58, you got a "LIKE". Enjoy! LOL Alaska gandhi1007 and CharityMike like this.

05-31-2012, 02:15 AM	#19
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Originally Posted by Cruize D. Thomas, Herring, Shanle, Roby, and W. Smith. Those are all very likely, except for Thomas... Until we see what we have in training camp...

05-31-2012, 10:22 AM	#20
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,761	This is not even close to the roster we have so the point is nul and void
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,761

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