Better NFL offense: Patriots or Saints?

CharityMike · 06-02-2012, 12:33 AM

Now its between the Saints and the Lions for the championship!

Go vote: Pro Football Weekly | Facebook

FinSaint · 06-02-2012, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by CharityMike

Now its between the Saints and the Lions for the championship!

Go vote: Pro Football Weekly | Facebook

Or for those with no FB account, you can place a vote in the comments section on their YouTube channel:

Who has the best offense in the NFL? \| Championship: Lions vs. Saints - YouTube

the link, replace Xs with ts.
hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGlKEUfRgbA&list=UUUNoAGHlWAGgJ69H3GKCIzQ&index=1&feature=plcp

pherein · 06-02-2012, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by HughC

Graham is incredible, but at minimum they're even. Virtually the same number of receptions and yards, but Gronkowski had 7 more TD; he's a very good blocker too.

Saints are better at WR and RB
Patriots get more from the TE position
Both are very good at QB and OL

Overall a slight edge to the Saints, probably because of the versatility and not relying on so few players. Saints scored 2.1 more points per game, had 39 more yards per game, passed for 263 more yards and ran for 363 more yards. Turnovers are about equal (NE 17; NO 19).

Looking ahead New England may (or may not) be able to surpass the Saints offense in 2012, adding Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Daniel Fells as a 3rd TE, etc., but to do so they'll need to get good production from one or both of their 2nd-year running backs.

Great post. I still consider Graham a better pass catcher and Gronk to be better after then runner after the catch. Which make them even in my book. NE does have a better TE core thou.

The only reason I consider the Saints might have a better WR core is it has proven vets with Henderson,Moore Colston, and Arrington. Plus adding Toon helps. Arrington is not thrown to much, but his catch percentage is 82%. He just hasn't seen the field much. He seems to be a typical lunch pale WR to me.
Nothing special, but can work fine in our offense.

Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, are just not proven yet. Not saying they are not good, but even Ocho had a problem learning to catch for Brady and he's a vet.
I think Lloyd will be a star there, personally, he's good. What about the difference in OL?

FinSaint · 06-02-2012, 10:41 PM

Saints do have a much better run offense than the Patriots do, or at least they did last season and the future is unknown - #6 vs #20.

A large part of that is and was the superior play of the Saints' O-line, and I do think they are better than their colleagues with the Patriots - in fact, they are the best in the business and there'll be no drop of with Grubbs.

Gronkowski is a much better blocker than Graham is and he is a much more complete TE at present, but given how new Graham is to the game of football - I predict that 10 years from now Graham will have had a far superior career.

Speedy Ron · 06-02-2012, 11:03 PM

better question..who has the worse defense?

pherein · 06-02-2012, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Speedy Ron

better question..who has the worse defense?

LOL, not the topic, but so true.

HughC · 06-02-2012, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by pherein

Great post. I still consider Graham a better pass catcher and Gronk to be better after then runner after the catch. Which make them even in my book. NE does have a better TE core thou.

The only reason I consider the Saints might have a better WR core is it has proven vets with Henderson,Moore Colston, and Arrington. Plus adding Toon helps. Arrington is not thrown to much, but his catch percentage is 82%. He just hasn't seen the field much. He seems to be a typical lunch pale WR to me.
Nothing special, but can work fine in our offense.

Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, are just not proven yet. Not saying they are not good, but even Ocho had a problem learning to catch for Brady and he's a vet.
I think Lloyd will be a start there. What about the difference in OL?

While Lloyd and Gaffney did play on other teams in 2011, I don't think there should be the doubt that they can figure it out the way Ochocinco did. Lloyd followed Josh McDaniels to New England and they use the same type of offense, terminology, etc., and Gaffney did well when he played there a couple years ago. If Gaffney can get 947 yards with Rex Grossman throwing the ball last year then he should be fine with Brady as his QB. Lloyd had 2414 yards and 16 TD over the last two years, so again I don't envision an Ochocinco type of dropoff.

I think it looks like the Patriots WRs should be slightly better than the Saints WRs in 2012, but the Saints still have a big advantage with their RBs - not just running the ball, but especially in the passing game - which could/should make the Saints offense still slightly better than the Patriots offense this year.

As for the OL it looks to me like both are very good, both in terms of starters as well as depth for when the inevitable injury strikes.

pherein · 06-03-2012, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by HughC

While Lloyd and Gaffney did play on other teams in 2011, I don't think there should be the doubt that they can figure it out the way Ochocinco did. Lloyd followed Josh McDaniels to New England and they use the same type of offense, terminology, etc., and Gaffney did well when he played there a couple years ago. If Gaffney can get 947 yards with Rex Grossman throwing the ball last year then he should be fine with Brady as his QB. Lloyd had 2414 yards and 16 TD over the last two years, so again I don't envision an Ochocinco type of dropoff.

I think it looks like the Patriots WRs should be slightly better than the Saints WRs in 2012, but the Saints still have a big advantage with their RBs - not just running the ball, but especially in the passing game - which could/should make the Saints offense still slightly better than the Patriots offense this year.

As for the OL it looks to me like both are very good, both in terms of starters as well as depth for when the inevitable injury strikes.

Well not going to agree on the WR situation, just yet, but open to it. Is Lloyd going to equal Colston? He didn't his 1st season.
Gaffney going to equal Moore ? He also didn't . Moore is close to welkers catch percentage every year.
I know the hope is 900 yrd WR's, but it needs to be proven on your team. I think.
These are 2 guys that already have better production then then Gaffney, or Lloyd. You think? So how are they better than what we already have in place?

What WR's are we comparing? Colston vs any one the Pats , Moore vs welker? Henderson vs Gaffney ? I think you know were I am going with this. But do understand I don't think the Patriots, who we actually really respect and their fans, have anything to compare to Colston.

Im just not getting the equal already or surpass later thing, right now. That seems a little more theory to me at this time and place. Let me know. We love outside opinions here, and good posters. appreciate the input thanks.

pherein · 06-03-2012, 03:52 AM

I would also encourage anyone to post on the same topic in their forum. Its one of the best moderated forums Ive been in, and they have some really good football knowledge. Just as always, as we say , represent us well. It would be nice to get a friendly stream of dialogue between our 2 sites. Most of what the Patriots hear is from Saintsreport, and thats not a true reflection of how we think. This site is.

Better NFL offense: Patriots or Saints? - New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard

WhoDat!656 · 06-03-2012, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Speedy Ron

better question..who has the worse defense?

Without a doubt, the Saints!

Couldn't stop the 40-whiners from scoring with 1:37 left in the game; at least the Patricheats crappy defense got to the Super Bowl.

But if the Saints had gotten to the Super Bowl against the Pats, the only question would have been how badly would the Saints beat New England!

06-02-2012, 12:33 AM	#21
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Now its between the Saints and the Lions for the championship! Go vote: Pro Football Weekly \| Facebook SloMotion likes this.

06-02-2012, 10:26 PM	#23
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by HughC Graham is incredible, but at minimum they're even. Virtually the same number of receptions and yards, but Gronkowski had 7 more TD; he's a very good blocker too. Saints are better at WR and RB Patriots get more from the TE position Both are very good at QB and OL Overall a slight edge to the Saints, probably because of the versatility and not relying on so few players. Saints scored 2.1 more points per game, had 39 more yards per game, passed for 263 more yards and ran for 363 more yards. Turnovers are about equal (NE 17; NO 19). Looking ahead New England may (or may not) be able to surpass the Saints offense in 2012, adding Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Daniel Fells as a 3rd TE, etc., but to do so they'll need to get good production from one or both of their 2nd-year running backs. Great post. I still consider Graham a better pass catcher and Gronk to be better after then runner after the catch. Which make them even in my book. NE does have a better TE core thou. The only reason I consider the Saints might have a better WR core is it has proven vets with Henderson,Moore Colston, and Arrington. Plus adding Toon helps. Arrington is not thrown to much, but his catch percentage is 82%. He just hasn't seen the field much. He seems to be a typical lunch pale WR to me. Nothing special, but can work fine in our offense. Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, are just not proven yet. Not saying they are not good, but even Ocho had a problem learning to catch for Brady and he's a vet. I think Lloyd will be a star there, personally, he's good. What about the difference in OL?
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 06-02-2012 at 11:25 PM..

06-02-2012, 10:41 PM	#24
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Saints do have a much better run offense than the Patriots do, or at least they did last season and the future is unknown - #6 vs #20. A large part of that is and was the superior play of the Saints' O-line, and I do think they are better than their colleagues with the Patriots - in fact, they are the best in the business and there'll be no drop of with Grubbs. Gronkowski is a much better blocker than Graham is and he is a much more complete TE at present, but given how new Graham is to the game of football - I predict that 10 years from now Graham will have had a far superior career.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

06-02-2012, 11:03 PM	#25
Speedy Ron I'm an A hole Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Metry Posts: 1,173	better question..who has the worse defense? pherein likes this.

06-02-2012, 11:26 PM	#26
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by Speedy Ron better question..who has the worse defense? LOL, not the topic, but so true.

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06-02-2012, 11:39 PM	#27
HughC Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2	Originally Posted by pherein Great post. I still consider Graham a better pass catcher and Gronk to be better after then runner after the catch. Which make them even in my book. NE does have a better TE core thou. The only reason I consider the Saints might have a better WR core is it has proven vets with Henderson,Moore Colston, and Arrington. Plus adding Toon helps. Arrington is not thrown to much, but his catch percentage is 82%. He just hasn't seen the field much. He seems to be a typical lunch pale WR to me. Nothing special, but can work fine in our offense. Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, are just not proven yet. Not saying they are not good, but even Ocho had a problem learning to catch for Brady and he's a vet. I think Lloyd will be a start there. What about the difference in OL? While Lloyd and Gaffney did play on other teams in 2011, I don't think there should be the doubt that they can figure it out the way Ochocinco did. Lloyd followed Josh McDaniels to New England and they use the same type of offense, terminology, etc., and Gaffney did well when he played there a couple years ago. If Gaffney can get 947 yards with Rex Grossman throwing the ball last year then he should be fine with Brady as his QB. Lloyd had 2414 yards and 16 TD over the last two years, so again I don't envision an Ochocinco type of dropoff. I think it looks like the Patriots WRs should be slightly better than the Saints WRs in 2012, but the Saints still have a big advantage with their RBs - not just running the ball, but especially in the passing game - which could/should make the Saints offense still slightly better than the Patriots offense this year. As for the OL it looks to me like both are very good, both in terms of starters as well as depth for when the inevitable injury strikes.
HughC Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2

06-03-2012, 01:16 AM	#28
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by HughC While Lloyd and Gaffney did play on other teams in 2011, I don't think there should be the doubt that they can figure it out the way Ochocinco did. Lloyd followed Josh McDaniels to New England and they use the same type of offense, terminology, etc., and Gaffney did well when he played there a couple years ago. If Gaffney can get 947 yards with Rex Grossman throwing the ball last year then he should be fine with Brady as his QB. Lloyd had 2414 yards and 16 TD over the last two years, so again I don't envision an Ochocinco type of dropoff. I think it looks like the Patriots WRs should be slightly better than the Saints WRs in 2012, but the Saints still have a big advantage with their RBs - not just running the ball, but especially in the passing game - which could/should make the Saints offense still slightly better than the Patriots offense this year. As for the OL it looks to me like both are very good, both in terms of starters as well as depth for when the inevitable injury strikes. Well not going to agree on the WR situation, just yet, but open to it. Is Lloyd going to equal Colston? He didn't his 1st season. Gaffney going to equal Moore ? He also didn't . Moore is close to welkers catch percentage every year. I know the hope is 900 yrd WR's, but it needs to be proven on your team. I think. These are 2 guys that already have better production then then Gaffney, or Lloyd. You think? So how are they better than what we already have in place? What WR's are we comparing? Colston vs any one the Pats , Moore vs welker? Henderson vs Gaffney ? I think you know were I am going with this. But do understand I don't think the Patriots, who we actually really respect and their fans, have anything to compare to Colston. Im just not getting the equal already or surpass later thing, right now. That seems a little more theory to me at this time and place. Let me know. We love outside opinions here, and good posters. appreciate the input thanks.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 06-03-2012 at 03:25 AM..

06-03-2012, 03:52 AM	#29
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	I would also encourage anyone to post on the same topic in their forum. Its one of the best moderated forums Ive been in, and they have some really good football knowledge. Just as always, as we say , represent us well. It would be nice to get a friendly stream of dialogue between our 2 sites. Most of what the Patriots hear is from Saintsreport, and thats not a true reflection of how we think. This site is. Better NFL offense: Patriots or Saints? - New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard
	Last edited by pherein; 06-03-2012 at 03:59 AM..

06-03-2012, 08:18 AM	#30
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,046	Originally Posted by Speedy Ron better question..who has the worse defense? Without a doubt, the Saints! Couldn't stop the 40-whiners from scoring with 1:37 left in the game; at least the Patricheats crappy defense got to the Super Bowl. But if the Saints had gotten to the Super Bowl against the Pats, the only question would have been how badly would the Saints beat New England!

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