Saints seeking 3rd arm, Smith to DT?

blackangold · 05-31-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

Not interesting, Third arm cause Canfield's not good. Will at DE to get the best four pass rushers on the field in third and long situations.

On third and long because Spags Runs some sort of souped up DE package where the four best pass rushers on the field at the same time. For instance:

Romeus, Smith, Jorden, Wilson................ And go hunt. But only on third and long situations.

Just wanted to lol a bit at Jorden being in the mix for 'best pass rushers'

Really though I agree with you aside from Jorden, IMO Jorden will see a lot of the bench this year.

CharityMike · 05-31-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Just wanted to lol a bit at Jorden being in the mix for 'best pass rushers'

Really though I agree with you aside from Jorden, IMO Jorden will see a lot of the bench this year.

I think you are wrong. It was his rookie year. Give him a chance before you bench him.

blackangold · 05-31-2012, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by CharityMike

I think you are wrong. It was his rookie year. Give him a chance before you bench him.

He was never known as a pass rusher in college, and during his rookie year he played more than any other DE yet had 0 sacks... I say 0 because the 1 he got credit for was cam newton running out of the pocket then getting horse collared which was called btw. So that 1 sack he had gave 15 yards and a 1st down away.

But hey, I hope I am wrong I would love for him to be a productive pass rusher but that is not him. He is great at defending the run. Problem there is Spags wants/needs his starting DE to be pass rushers first and run defender second.

CharityMike · 05-31-2012, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

He was never known as a pass rusher in college, and during his rookie year he played more than any other DE yet had 0 sacks... I say 0 because the 1 he got credit for was cam newton running out of the pocket then getting horse collared which was called btw. So that 1 sack he had gave 15 yards and a 1st down away.

But hey, I hope I am wrong I would love for him to be a productive pass rusher but that is not him. He is great at defending the run. Problem there is Spags wants/needs his starting DE to be pass rushers first and run defender second.

You may be right but Spags might be able to get more out of him. Justin Tuck was a nobody until Spags got him. Lets give him a full offseason and new DC to work with him before we write him off.

FinSaint · 05-31-2012, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

He was never known as a pass rusher in college, and during his rookie year he played more than any other DE yet had 0 sacks...

But hey, I hope I am wrong I would love for him to be a productive pass rusher but that is not him. He is great at defending the run. Problem there is Spags wants/needs his starting DE to be pass rushers first and run defender second.

Originally Posted by CharityMike

You may be right but Spags might be able to get more out of him. Justin Tuck was a nobody until Spags got him. Lets give him a full offseason and new DC to work with him before we write him off.

Like it was discussed on another thread, Jordan isn't really a pass rushing DE, but a stereotypical 4-3 LDE who is good against the run and able to contain his side of the D-line.

But it was also stated that Jordan probably had more chances last season to make some plays behind the line of scrimmage than the numbers suggest, but he seemed to pull away or to stay back because of the defensive scheme. So maybe in another scheme he'll be able to create some pass rush, but I wouldn't expect him to become a "sack-machine" because that is not where he excels at.

Smith, on the other hand, might be an interesting person to move to DT at certain packages, but I'm hoping Spags can get enough interior pass rush from some of the DTs, so that they won't need to supplement them with DEs.

Danno · 05-31-2012, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

He was never known as a pass rusher in college, and during his rookie year he played more than any other DE yet had 0 sacks... I say 0 because the 1 he got credit for was cam newton running out of the pocket then getting horse collared which was called btw. So that 1 sack he had gave 15 yards and a 1st down away.

But IIRC he had a sack taken away because of a late hit didn't he? And how many times did he play containment, allowing someone else to get his sack?

And to be fair, only two d-linemen had more than 2 sacks the entire year. So perhaps it was scheme a lot more than we think.

blackangold · 06-01-2012, 03:05 PM

dub

blackangold · 06-01-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

But IIRC he had a sack taken away because of a late hit didn't he? And how many times did he play containment, allowing someone else to get his sack?

And to be fair, only two d-linemen had more than 2 sacks the entire year. So perhaps it was scheme a lot more than we think.

Yes, JR and Smith had 4 and 6.5 sacks respectively but how often was JR on the field? Less than half the time Cam was.

Cam is not a spags DE and to be honest Smith doesn't fit the spags mold.

It is safe to say we had the worst pass rushing front 4 last year. A back up (Mcbride) who only played in 3 games before getting hurt had more sacks then your starting DE; whom took the most snaps as a DE. That doesn't make Cam look good does it?

Danno · 06-01-2012, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

That doesn't make Cam look good does it?

If his job was to stricly rush the passer, then no, but that wasn't his job AND he's a rookie, and he played in a 4 or 5 man DE rotation.

Our front 4 sucked, but it wasn't because of Jordan.

05-31-2012, 02:33 PM	#1
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Originally Posted by alleycat_126 Not interesting, Third arm cause Canfield's not good. Will at DE to get the best four pass rushers on the field in third and long situations. On third and long because Spags Runs some sort of souped up DE package where the four best pass rushers on the field at the same time. For instance: Romeus, Smith, Jorden, Wilson................ And go hunt. But only on third and long situations. Just wanted to lol a bit at Jorden being in the mix for 'best pass rushers' Really though I agree with you aside from Jorden, IMO Jorden will see a lot of the bench this year.

05-31-2012, 02:45 PM	#2
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Originally Posted by blackangold Just wanted to lol a bit at Jorden being in the mix for 'best pass rushers' Really though I agree with you aside from Jorden, IMO Jorden will see a lot of the bench this year. I think you are wrong. It was his rookie year. Give him a chance before you bench him.

05-31-2012, 03:05 PM	#3
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Originally Posted by CharityMike I think you are wrong. It was his rookie year. Give him a chance before you bench him. He was never known as a pass rusher in college, and during his rookie year he played more than any other DE yet had 0 sacks... I say 0 because the 1 he got credit for was cam newton running out of the pocket then getting horse collared which was called btw. So that 1 sack he had gave 15 yards and a 1st down away. But hey, I hope I am wrong I would love for him to be a productive pass rusher but that is not him. He is great at defending the run. Problem there is Spags wants/needs his starting DE to be pass rushers first and run defender second.

05-31-2012, 03:14 PM	#4
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Originally Posted by blackangold He was never known as a pass rusher in college, and during his rookie year he played more than any other DE yet had 0 sacks... I say 0 because the 1 he got credit for was cam newton running out of the pocket then getting horse collared which was called btw. So that 1 sack he had gave 15 yards and a 1st down away. But hey, I hope I am wrong I would love for him to be a productive pass rusher but that is not him. He is great at defending the run. Problem there is Spags wants/needs his starting DE to be pass rushers first and run defender second. You may be right but Spags might be able to get more out of him. Justin Tuck was a nobody until Spags got him. Lets give him a full offseason and new DC to work with him before we write him off.

05-31-2012, 04:38 PM	#5
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Originally Posted by blackangold He was never known as a pass rusher in college, and during his rookie year he played more than any other DE yet had 0 sacks... But hey, I hope I am wrong I would love for him to be a productive pass rusher but that is not him. He is great at defending the run. Problem there is Spags wants/needs his starting DE to be pass rushers first and run defender second. Originally Posted by CharityMike You may be right but Spags might be able to get more out of him. Justin Tuck was a nobody until Spags got him. Lets give him a full offseason and new DC to work with him before we write him off. Like it was discussed on another thread, Jordan isn't really a pass rushing DE, but a stereotypical 4-3 LDE who is good against the run and able to contain his side of the D-line. But it was also stated that Jordan probably had more chances last season to make some plays behind the line of scrimmage than the numbers suggest, but he seemed to pull away or to stay back because of the defensive scheme. So maybe in another scheme he'll be able to create some pass rush, but I wouldn't expect him to become a "sack-machine" because that is not where he excels at. Smith, on the other hand, might be an interesting person to move to DT at certain packages, but I'm hoping Spags can get enough interior pass rush from some of the DTs, so that they won't need to supplement them with DEs. Danno and Rugby Saint II like this.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

05-31-2012, 06:18 PM	#6
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,747	Originally Posted by blackangold He was never known as a pass rusher in college, and during his rookie year he played more than any other DE yet had 0 sacks... I say 0 because the 1 he got credit for was cam newton running out of the pocket then getting horse collared which was called btw. So that 1 sack he had gave 15 yards and a 1st down away. But IIRC he had a sack taken away because of a late hit didn't he? And how many times did he play containment, allowing someone else to get his sack? And to be fair, only two d-linemen had more than 2 sacks the entire year. So perhaps it was scheme a lot more than we think.

06-01-2012, 03:05 PM	#7
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	dub

06-01-2012, 03:07 PM	#8
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Originally Posted by Danno But IIRC he had a sack taken away because of a late hit didn't he? And how many times did he play containment, allowing someone else to get his sack? And to be fair, only two d-linemen had more than 2 sacks the entire year. So perhaps it was scheme a lot more than we think. Yes, JR and Smith had 4 and 6.5 sacks respectively but how often was JR on the field? Less than half the time Cam was. Cam is not a spags DE and to be honest Smith doesn't fit the spags mold. It is safe to say we had the worst pass rushing front 4 last year. A back up (Mcbride) who only played in 3 games before getting hurt had more sacks then your starting DE; whom took the most snaps as a DE. That doesn't make Cam look good does it?

06-01-2012, 03:42 PM	#9
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,747	Originally Posted by blackangold That doesn't make Cam look good does it? If his job was to stricly rush the passer, then no, but that wasn't his job AND he's a rookie, and he played in a 4 or 5 man DE rotation. Our front 4 sucked, but it wasn't because of Jordan.

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