Musings...........

Boccal · 04-30-2004, 10:54 AM

This is a fictional quote from Tom Benson

Mickey \"The Mouse\" Loomis - \"Mr. Benson we had a .500 season went 8-8 and missed the playoffs again. The fans are getting restless and are saying that we need to make a change in Coaching, Managment, and Ownership what do we do\".

Tom \"No CB\" Benson - \" Lets sell some cars\".

JKool · 04-30-2004, 08:03 PM

Look, everyone here (or who cheers for the boys in the Black and Gold) agrees that we need a Corner. Exactly how bad is the situation? IT IS NOT THAT BAD. We have three serviceable corners (Thomas, Craft, Brown), we have decent players for the nickle and dime positions (Craver, Ambrose). This is a patchwork group, sure, but they don\'t suck. If we have a good pass rush and decent Linebackers this year, our defense will stop some people - we must rely on the offense to produce! It is conceivable with our offense to simply outscore people.

I was recently convinced (right here on this board) that our bigger problem might be at the Safety postion. I don\'t think that Jones sucks, contrary to popular belief, but who do we have after that? Bellamy, what is he, 90? Gleason? He\'s no starter in the NFL. Mitchell? Hasn\'t recovered yet. We have NO ONE ELSE. Thus, if people want to complain, why shouldn\'t they focus on this problem.

Calm down people. If we\'re .500 this year, then what? You\'re gonna give up on the team? I doubt it. If it takes one more year to get a secondary, I\'ll be cheezed, but that is better than starting fresh AGAIN. We\'re only a few pieces of the puzzle away!

biloxi-indian · 05-01-2004, 01:07 AM

>This is a patchwork group, sure, but they don\'t suck. If we have a good pass rush and decent Linebackers this year, our defense will stop some people - we must rely on the offense to produce! It is conceivable with our offense to simply outscore people. <

If, IF and BUTS were candy and nuts it would be Christmas every day! Soooo many variables and qualifiers that I fail to understand the point you attempt to make.

Look, we can rationalize almost anything with the Saints organization. A good, poor, or even a fair draft...it is all in the eye of the beholder! A good defense line, or one in development. A lineback group which is a project with a CB group that needs someone we don\'t have. A safety that was hurt or his replacement we accept with reservations.

In the final analysis, we all share the IF\'s and BUT\'s. The proof of the pudding (no pun intended) is the W/L column. Management shares in the results we have experienced in the past as well as the future. Right now, for me the jury is still out on Haz and Benson. AB is not a leader! I know, this will draw the ire of some die hards.

I have stated this previously...give BOUMAN a true opportunity without the predjuce!

INSANITY= doing the same thing over, over, and over again and expecting a different outcome!

JKool · 05-01-2004, 02:37 AM

B-I,

Either it is in the eye of the beholder or it is in the puddin\'. It can\'t be both.

You were the one who started this thread with a complaint about the poor draft. Thus, it seems that you think it is in the eye of the beholder - so why bother discussing it? Do you just like to share your opinion? Even when you think that no one should care about your opinion, since what they think will simply depend on their eye?

If it is in the puddin\', then why complain about the draft? You claim that the only thing that matters is W/L; well, the draft has no Ws or Ls. Thus, you cannot have a bad draft, only bad seasons (since those are the only things measured in Ws and Ls)? What does AB\'s leadership matter? It certainly isn\'t measured in Ws and Ls. I\'m sure you didn\'t mean that only Ws and Ls matter. You surely believe that things matter to getting Ws and Ls and that those are worth discussing, right?

My point was that if you\'re going to complain about our CBs, you need to also be concerned about our LBs and our Ss. You don\'t get one without the others in this case. My point is more b--ching should be directed to our lack of Ss than has been, given the current negativity over our CB corps. Further, since the production of our CBs will depend greatly on our pass rush, which is good, it is less cause for alarm that our CBs aren\'t spectacular than it would be otherwise.

I guess, I\'m just sick of people making fun of \"if,then\" reasoning, since it wouldn\'t make sense to post ANYTHING on this board if you didn\'t. We\'re all armchair GMs, Scouts, and Coaches, otherwise this wouldn\'t be fun.

FrenzyFan · 05-02-2004, 10:37 AM

I don\'t believe we are in great position this year. I suspect this year will be about the same as the last. Last year was not about luck (good or bad). Last year was about our \"stars\" making rookie mistakes. It was about our \"leader\" allegedly fixing some areas of his lousy game, but then developing new and innovative ways to lose for us. Last year was about our \"projects\" still not developing into anything worthwhile. Last year was about being outcoached. As we\'ve had no real changes in players, or coaching - I can\'t see this year being much different than last.

Many people write here about how great our team looks this year. I\'ve been reading this board for a long time now. These people are the same ones who said this last year. When it didn\'t pan out the way they saw it, it was all about injuries and excuses. They jumped all over the people who predicted it accurately, calling them \"pessimist\" or worse; coming up with some theory about how the \"optimists\" were somehow \"brave\" or \"noble\" for saying we were gonna go 12-6. They would imply that those who said 9-7 were \"playing it safe\", almost as if the \"pessimists\" were basing their predictions on some fear of negative opinion, rather than study and personal experience.

The facts are we did NOTHING in FA. Our draft was allegedly a great \"value\" draft, but it didn\'t do anything to help this team in the areas we were hurting. Here come the June 1 cuts and after the last two opportunities to improve this team wasted, I simply cannot get optimistic about the decisions of management on this team.

JKool · 05-02-2004, 11:38 AM

We needed a Linebacker - we got two (maybe three if W.Smith plays OLB). How can you say that we didn\'t address our needs in the draft, just because we didn\'t get a CB?

I don\'t see what pessimism or optimism has to do with anything; I agree that people should stop making fun of each other on those grounds. While there appears to be a healthy division in point of view among the regulars on this board, they seem to simply enjoy poking fun at each other in that way (so I don\'t complain about it).

Furthermore, I don\'t see how anyone could have predicted injuries to key people (like Mitchell and Howard) or that Brooks would suddenly develop a fumbling problem. Is it your veiw that the \"pessimists\" correctly predicted things like 9-7 (though I don\'t see that as a pessimistic prediction at all) saw those things coming and the \"optimists\" are fools because they didn\'t? The disagreement in whether or not the team would be 10-6 rather than 6-10 was about whether or not (given reasonable parameters) with the guys we had (including coaches) given our schedule could win 10 games or only 6.

In FA we aquired a quality DT (Young) to fill our last gap on the DL. IS that NOTHING, or just nothing?

[Edited on 2/5/2004 by JKool]

swamee · 05-02-2004, 12:07 PM

I don\'t believe we are in great position this year. I suspect this year will be about the same as the last. Last year was not about luck (good or bad). Last year was about our \"stars\" making rookie mistakes. It was about our \"leader\" allegedly fixing some areas of his lousy game, but then developing new and innovative ways to lose for us. Last year was about our \"projects\" still not developing into anything worthwhile. Last year was about being outcoached. As we\'ve had no real changes in players, or coaching - I can\'t see this year being much different than last.

Many people write here about how great our team looks this year. I\'ve been reading this board for a long time now. These people are the same ones who said this last year. When it didn\'t pan out the way they saw it, it was all about injuries and excuses. They jumped all over the people who predicted it accurately, calling them \"pessimist\" or worse; coming up with some theory about how the \"optimists\" were somehow \"brave\" or \"noble\" for saying we were gonna go 12-6. They would imply that those who said 9-7 were \"playing it safe\", almost as if the \"pessimists\" were basing their predictions on some fear of negative opinion, rather than study and personal experience.

The facts are we did NOTHING in FA. Our draft was allegedly a great \"value\" draft, but it didn\'t do anything to help this team in the areas we were hurting. Here come the June 1 cuts and after the last two opportunities to improve this team wasted, I simply cannot get optimistic about the decisions of management on this team.

let me get this straight sir.....
when you add depth, you do nothing for your team, is that what you\'re saying?
and as far as injuries, exactly which team were you watching?
granted, we did suck on defense and made many mistakes on offense(which in my opinion, did prevent us from making the playoffs)
now, just for the sake of discussion, who would you have taken in the draft?
who would you have taken in free agency?
and where was this money magicly coming from?
i\'m not saying we don\'t need to improve, we do.......
however, like some on this board, i am not for making quick decisions anymore....
they have not panned out very well for us in the past.........
swamee

WhoDat · 05-03-2004, 08:23 PM

I don\'t believe we are in great position this year. I suspect this year will be about the same as the last. Last year was not about luck (good or bad). Last year was about our \"stars\" making rookie mistakes. It was about our \"leader\" allegedly fixing some areas of his lousy game, but then developing new and innovative ways to lose for us. Last year was about our \"projects\" still not developing into anything worthwhile. Last year was about being outcoached. As we\'ve had no real changes in players, or coaching - I can\'t see this year being much different than last.

Many people write here about how great our team looks this year. I\'ve been reading this board for a long time now. These people are the same ones who said this last year. When it didn\'t pan out the way they saw it, it was all about injuries and excuses. They jumped all over the people who predicted it accurately, calling them \"pessimist\" or worse; coming up with some theory about how the \"optimists\" were somehow \"brave\" or \"noble\" for saying we were gonna go 12-6. They would imply that those who said 9-7 were \"playing it safe\", almost as if the \"pessimists\" were basing their predictions on some fear of negative opinion, rather than study and personal experience.

The facts are we did NOTHING in FA. Our draft was allegedly a great \"value\" draft, but it didn\'t do anything to help this team in the areas we were hurting. Here come the June 1 cuts and after the last two opportunities to improve this team wasted, I simply cannot get optimistic about the decisions of management on this team.

This is the best post I\'ve seen here in a year. Bravo FF. My hat is off to you.

Furthermore, I don\'t see how anyone could have predicted injuries to key people (like Mitchell and Howard) or that Brooks would suddenly develop a fumbling problem. Is it your veiw that the \"pessimists\" correctly predicted things like 9-7 (though I don\'t see that as a pessimistic prediction at all) saw those things coming and the \"optimists\" are fools because they didn\'t?

Being a pessimist, I\'ll try to answer this. No one here is suggesting that they can see the future. I predicted 8-8 or 9-7 at the beginning of last season. I can\'t remember anyone else predicting 9-7 or worse. In fact, I was called \"the most negative person\" someone here had ever met, and another name for a cat starting with a P for those comments.

Those who thought the Saints would do better saw few problems, and where they saw problems they gave the benefit of the doubt. Whether it was hope, a belief in this coaching staff and team, or whatever else, when we questioned Ruff, they said he will help. When we questioned the Sullivan pickup, they defended it. When I suggested the offense would fall off from last year they scoffed and wrote me off as completely insane.

The Saints have had the same basic problems for the last three years. For the last three years the coaches have made changes here and changes there but none of them have worked. Many of us want them to work. Some of the current \"pessimists\" believed they would and have been burned by lost hope. Now, we see the question marks and ask, why will it get any better? Nothing in the past shows that it will, so all you have to go on is faith and hope. Well, faith and hope don\'t win football games. Good players and good coaches do, and we just don\'t have the right combination of those.

JKool · 05-03-2004, 08:43 PM

Best post in over a year? WhoDat, come on.

You agree with this?
Quote: The facts are we did NOTHING in FA. Our draft was allegedly a great \"value\" draft, but it didn\'t do anything to help this team in the areas we were hurting. (FF)

As for the teams track record of failure of the last three years, no one disputes that. It always seemed to me that the debate was over the causes of the problem. I agree that FA and the draft feel eerily familiar to last year, but I guess I just don\'t see it as the same. If we have new problems, potentials, players, attitudes, whatever, then it is possible that things will end up differently this year. Is there cause for concern? Hell yeah (no CB - come on, EVERYONE knows we need one).

I guess I just resist arguments of the following form: We sucked last year, we sucked the year before, we sucked the year before that, and so on; therefore, we will suck this year. We all agree that this is not a good argument because \"sucking\" is not transitive in this way - there are many reasons we could suck (if we do indeed suck) and if those reasons are not the same in each premise of this argument, there is little reason to believe the conclusion.

We both know that your (WhoDat\'s) arguments are better than \"we sucked, so we will suck again\" - I think that it just sounds like that to some people. I always thought the fun of the oposition (for example the silly Moonshiner vs. Sunshiner stuff) was to tease out the actual reasons for our situation - this will help us (1) understand Football better, (2) make better predictions, (3) get our hopes up when reasonable, (4) gripe when reasonable, and (5) enjoy the sport we all love (and the fun discussion that goes with it).

[Edited on 4/5/2004 by JKool]

biloxi-indian · 05-04-2004, 02:58 AM

JKool,

I believe putting a puzzle together requires vision and the ability to place the right parts in the right place. Maybe, just maybe, one can relate the \"eye of the beholder\" (vision)and \"proof of the puddin\" (placing the right parts in the right place to match the vision) to the analogy of a puzzle. Just maybe it can be both...what do you think?

If I understand your point... since \"we\" did not create the vision, nor do we place the piece parts in place...we have no right to question those that did and do. Sounds to me like a \"herd\" mentality!

As for this thread...I believe I started it with MUSINGS=contemplative=contempate=to ponder...or maybe better put...does not accept a \"herd\" mentality!

I guess most of us are sick and tired of being sick and tired every year with the Saints organization. If that is bit----- then I am bit-----. It is the constant \"wait until next year\" mantra that causes me to ponder, contemplate, muse...INSANITY....continue doing the same thing, over, over, and over again and expect a different outcome.

04-30-2004, 10:54 AM	#11
Boccal 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mobile Posts: 139	Musings........... This is a fictional quote from Tom Benson Mickey \"The Mouse\" Loomis - \"Mr. Benson we had a .500 season went 8-8 and missed the playoffs again. The fans are getting restless and are saying that we need to make a change in Coaching, Managment, and Ownership what do we do\". Tom \"No CB\" Benson - \" Lets sell some cars\".

04-30-2004, 08:03 PM	#12
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Musings........... Look, everyone here (or who cheers for the boys in the Black and Gold) agrees that we need a Corner. Exactly how bad is the situation? IT IS NOT THAT BAD. We have three serviceable corners (Thomas, Craft, Brown), we have decent players for the nickle and dime positions (Craver, Ambrose). This is a patchwork group, sure, but they don\'t suck. If we have a good pass rush and decent Linebackers this year, our defense will stop some people - we must rely on the offense to produce! It is conceivable with our offense to simply outscore people. I was recently convinced (right here on this board) that our bigger problem might be at the Safety postion. I don\'t think that Jones sucks, contrary to popular belief, but who do we have after that? Bellamy, what is he, 90? Gleason? He\'s no starter in the NFL. Mitchell? Hasn\'t recovered yet. We have NO ONE ELSE. Thus, if people want to complain, why shouldn\'t they focus on this problem. Calm down people. If we\'re .500 this year, then what? You\'re gonna give up on the team? I doubt it. If it takes one more year to get a secondary, I\'ll be cheezed, but that is better than starting fresh AGAIN. We\'re only a few pieces of the puzzle away!
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

05-01-2004, 01:07 AM	#13
biloxi-indian Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 1,706	Musings........... >This is a patchwork group, sure, but they don\'t suck. If we have a good pass rush and decent Linebackers this year, our defense will stop some people - we must rely on the offense to produce! It is conceivable with our offense to simply outscore people. < If, IF and BUTS were candy and nuts it would be Christmas every day! Soooo many variables and qualifiers that I fail to understand the point you attempt to make. Look, we can rationalize almost anything with the Saints organization. A good, poor, or even a fair draft...it is all in the eye of the beholder! A good defense line, or one in development. A lineback group which is a project with a CB group that needs someone we don\'t have. A safety that was hurt or his replacement we accept with reservations. In the final analysis, we all share the IF\'s and BUT\'s. The proof of the pudding (no pun intended) is the W/L column. Management shares in the results we have experienced in the past as well as the future. Right now, for me the jury is still out on Haz and Benson. AB is not a leader! I know, this will draw the ire of some die hards. I have stated this previously...give BOUMAN a true opportunity without the predjuce! INSANITY= doing the same thing over, over, and over again and expecting a different outcome!
	Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over, over, and over again...and expecting a different outcome!

05-01-2004, 02:37 AM	#14
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Musings........... B-I, Either it is in the eye of the beholder or it is in the puddin\'. It can\'t be both. You were the one who started this thread with a complaint about the poor draft. Thus, it seems that you think it is in the eye of the beholder - so why bother discussing it? Do you just like to share your opinion? Even when you think that no one should care about your opinion, since what they think will simply depend on their eye? If it is in the puddin\', then why complain about the draft? You claim that the only thing that matters is W/L; well, the draft has no Ws or Ls. Thus, you cannot have a bad draft, only bad seasons (since those are the only things measured in Ws and Ls)? What does AB\'s leadership matter? It certainly isn\'t measured in Ws and Ls. I\'m sure you didn\'t mean that only Ws and Ls matter. You surely believe that things matter to getting Ws and Ls and that those are worth discussing, right? My point was that if you\'re going to complain about our CBs, you need to also be concerned about our LBs and our Ss. You don\'t get one without the others in this case. My point is more b--ching should be directed to our lack of Ss than has been, given the current negativity over our CB corps. Further, since the production of our CBs will depend greatly on our pass rush, which is good, it is less cause for alarm that our CBs aren\'t spectacular than it would be otherwise. I guess, I\'m just sick of people making fun of \"if,then\" reasoning, since it wouldn\'t make sense to post ANYTHING on this board if you didn\'t. We\'re all armchair GMs, Scouts, and Coaches, otherwise this wouldn\'t be fun.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

05-02-2004, 10:37 AM	#15
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Musings........... I don\'t believe we are in great position this year. I suspect this year will be about the same as the last. Last year was not about luck (good or bad). Last year was about our \"stars\" making rookie mistakes. It was about our \"leader\" allegedly fixing some areas of his lousy game, but then developing new and innovative ways to lose for us. Last year was about our \"projects\" still not developing into anything worthwhile. Last year was about being outcoached. As we\'ve had no real changes in players, or coaching - I can\'t see this year being much different than last. Many people write here about how great our team looks this year. I\'ve been reading this board for a long time now. These people are the same ones who said this last year. When it didn\'t pan out the way they saw it, it was all about injuries and excuses. They jumped all over the people who predicted it accurately, calling them \"pessimist\" or worse; coming up with some theory about how the \"optimists\" were somehow \"brave\" or \"noble\" for saying we were gonna go 12-6. They would imply that those who said 9-7 were \"playing it safe\", almost as if the \"pessimists\" were basing their predictions on some fear of negative opinion, rather than study and personal experience. The facts are we did NOTHING in FA. Our draft was allegedly a great \"value\" draft, but it didn\'t do anything to help this team in the areas we were hurting. Here come the June 1 cuts and after the last two opportunities to improve this team wasted, I simply cannot get optimistic about the decisions of management on this team.
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg

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05-02-2004, 11:38 AM	#16
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Musings........... We needed a Linebacker - we got two (maybe three if W.Smith plays OLB). How can you say that we didn\'t address our needs in the draft, just because we didn\'t get a CB? I don\'t see what pessimism or optimism has to do with anything; I agree that people should stop making fun of each other on those grounds. While there appears to be a healthy division in point of view among the regulars on this board, they seem to simply enjoy poking fun at each other in that way (so I don\'t complain about it). Furthermore, I don\'t see how anyone could have predicted injuries to key people (like Mitchell and Howard) or that Brooks would suddenly develop a fumbling problem. Is it your veiw that the \"pessimists\" correctly predicted things like 9-7 (though I don\'t see that as a pessimistic prediction at all) saw those things coming and the \"optimists\" are fools because they didn\'t? The disagreement in whether or not the team would be 10-6 rather than 6-10 was about whether or not (given reasonable parameters) with the guys we had (including coaches) given our schedule could win 10 games or only 6. In FA we aquired a quality DT (Young) to fill our last gap on the DL. IS that NOTHING, or just nothing? [Edited on 2/5/2004 by JKool]
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

05-02-2004, 12:07 PM	#17
swamee Registered Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 67	Musings........... I don\'t believe we are in great position this year. I suspect this year will be about the same as the last. Last year was not about luck (good or bad). Last year was about our \"stars\" making rookie mistakes. It was about our \"leader\" allegedly fixing some areas of his lousy game, but then developing new and innovative ways to lose for us. Last year was about our \"projects\" still not developing into anything worthwhile. Last year was about being outcoached. As we\'ve had no real changes in players, or coaching - I can\'t see this year being much different than last. Many people write here about how great our team looks this year. I\'ve been reading this board for a long time now. These people are the same ones who said this last year. When it didn\'t pan out the way they saw it, it was all about injuries and excuses. They jumped all over the people who predicted it accurately, calling them \"pessimist\" or worse; coming up with some theory about how the \"optimists\" were somehow \"brave\" or \"noble\" for saying we were gonna go 12-6. They would imply that those who said 9-7 were \"playing it safe\", almost as if the \"pessimists\" were basing their predictions on some fear of negative opinion, rather than study and personal experience. The facts are we did NOTHING in FA. Our draft was allegedly a great \"value\" draft, but it didn\'t do anything to help this team in the areas we were hurting. Here come the June 1 cuts and after the last two opportunities to improve this team wasted, I simply cannot get optimistic about the decisions of management on this team. let me get this straight sir..... when you add depth, you do nothing for your team, is that what you\'re saying? and as far as injuries, exactly which team were you watching? granted, we did suck on defense and made many mistakes on offense(which in my opinion, did prevent us from making the playoffs) now, just for the sake of discussion, who would you have taken in the draft? who would you have taken in free agency? and where was this money magicly coming from? i\'m not saying we don\'t need to improve, we do....... however, like some on this board, i am not for making quick decisions anymore.... they have not panned out very well for us in the past......... swamee
swamee Registered Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 67

05-03-2004, 08:23 PM	#18
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Musings........... I don\'t believe we are in great position this year. I suspect this year will be about the same as the last. Last year was not about luck (good or bad). Last year was about our \"stars\" making rookie mistakes. It was about our \"leader\" allegedly fixing some areas of his lousy game, but then developing new and innovative ways to lose for us. Last year was about our \"projects\" still not developing into anything worthwhile. Last year was about being outcoached. As we\'ve had no real changes in players, or coaching - I can\'t see this year being much different than last. Many people write here about how great our team looks this year. I\'ve been reading this board for a long time now. These people are the same ones who said this last year. When it didn\'t pan out the way they saw it, it was all about injuries and excuses. They jumped all over the people who predicted it accurately, calling them \"pessimist\" or worse; coming up with some theory about how the \"optimists\" were somehow \"brave\" or \"noble\" for saying we were gonna go 12-6. They would imply that those who said 9-7 were \"playing it safe\", almost as if the \"pessimists\" were basing their predictions on some fear of negative opinion, rather than study and personal experience. The facts are we did NOTHING in FA. Our draft was allegedly a great \"value\" draft, but it didn\'t do anything to help this team in the areas we were hurting. Here come the June 1 cuts and after the last two opportunities to improve this team wasted, I simply cannot get optimistic about the decisions of management on this team. This is the best post I\'ve seen here in a year. Bravo FF. My hat is off to you. Furthermore, I don\'t see how anyone could have predicted injuries to key people (like Mitchell and Howard) or that Brooks would suddenly develop a fumbling problem. Is it your veiw that the \"pessimists\" correctly predicted things like 9-7 (though I don\'t see that as a pessimistic prediction at all) saw those things coming and the \"optimists\" are fools because they didn\'t? Being a pessimist, I\'ll try to answer this. No one here is suggesting that they can see the future. I predicted 8-8 or 9-7 at the beginning of last season. I can\'t remember anyone else predicting 9-7 or worse. In fact, I was called \"the most negative person\" someone here had ever met, and another name for a cat starting with a P for those comments. Those who thought the Saints would do better saw few problems, and where they saw problems they gave the benefit of the doubt. Whether it was hope, a belief in this coaching staff and team, or whatever else, when we questioned Ruff, they said he will help. When we questioned the Sullivan pickup, they defended it. When I suggested the offense would fall off from last year they scoffed and wrote me off as completely insane. The Saints have had the same basic problems for the last three years. For the last three years the coaches have made changes here and changes there but none of them have worked. Many of us want them to work. Some of the current \"pessimists\" believed they would and have been burned by lost hope. Now, we see the question marks and ask, why will it get any better? Nothing in the past shows that it will, so all you have to go on is faith and hope. Well, faith and hope don\'t win football games. Good players and good coaches do, and we just don\'t have the right combination of those.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

05-03-2004, 08:43 PM	#19
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Musings........... Best post in over a year? WhoDat, come on. You agree with this? Quote: The facts are we did NOTHING in FA. Our draft was allegedly a great \"value\" draft, but it didn\'t do anything to help this team in the areas we were hurting. (FF) As for the teams track record of failure of the last three years, no one disputes that. It always seemed to me that the debate was over the causes of the problem. I agree that FA and the draft feel eerily familiar to last year, but I guess I just don\'t see it as the same. If we have new problems, potentials, players, attitudes, whatever, then it is possible that things will end up differently this year. Is there cause for concern? Hell yeah (no CB - come on, EVERYONE knows we need one). I guess I just resist arguments of the following form: We sucked last year, we sucked the year before, we sucked the year before that, and so on; therefore, we will suck this year. We all agree that this is not a good argument because \"sucking\" is not transitive in this way - there are many reasons we could suck (if we do indeed suck) and if those reasons are not the same in each premise of this argument, there is little reason to believe the conclusion. We both know that your (WhoDat\'s) arguments are better than \"we sucked, so we will suck again\" - I think that it just sounds like that to some people. I always thought the fun of the oposition (for example the silly Moonshiner vs. Sunshiner stuff) was to tease out the actual reasons for our situation - this will help us (1) understand Football better, (2) make better predictions, (3) get our hopes up when reasonable, (4) gripe when reasonable, and (5) enjoy the sport we all love (and the fun discussion that goes with it). [Edited on 4/5/2004 by JKool]
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

05-04-2004, 02:58 AM	#20
biloxi-indian Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 1,706	Musings........... JKool, I believe putting a puzzle together requires vision and the ability to place the right parts in the right place. Maybe, just maybe, one can relate the \"eye of the beholder\" (vision)and \"proof of the puddin\" (placing the right parts in the right place to match the vision) to the analogy of a puzzle. Just maybe it can be both...what do you think? If I understand your point... since \"we\" did not create the vision, nor do we place the piece parts in place...we have no right to question those that did and do. Sounds to me like a \"herd\" mentality! As for this thread...I believe I started it with MUSINGS=contemplative=contempate=to ponder...or maybe better put...does not accept a \"herd\" mentality! I guess most of us are sick and tired of being sick and tired every year with the Saints organization. If that is bit----- then I am bit-----. It is the constant \"wait until next year\" mantra that causes me to ponder, contemplate, muse...INSANITY....continue doing the same thing, over, over, and over again and expect a different outcome.
	Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over, over, and over again...and expecting a different outcome!