League backs off view that Hargrove said “give me my money”

TheOak · 07-06-2012, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Beastmode

CBA or no CBA, there is no way anyone shoud be allowed to go around aimlessly smearing someone. Someone needs to be held accountable.

From a moral standpoint I agree 100%!

From a legal standpoint, the precedent has been set. If public slander, or inaccurate accounts were culpable offenses there would be no news agencies in business and prisons would be full of politicians.

I have never seen a political candidate taken to task for outright lies about his opponent during a campaign.

burningmetal · 07-06-2012, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

From a moral standpoint I agree 100%!

From a legal standpoint, the precedent has been set. If public slander, or inaccurate accounts were culpable offenses there would be no news agencies in business and prisons would be full of politicians.

I have never seen a political candidate taken to task for outright lies about his opponent during a campaign.

That's because politicians and news agencies aren't suspending or firing people that they're in the process of slandering. It's bad enough to start a rumor, but to convict upon nothing more is outrageous.

saintfan · 07-06-2012, 11:18 AM

Alright 626. Tell me again why it is they can't just refuse to show up for camp? Not saying the Union could even muster the momentum to make that happen, but explain to me why it is that they can't. I'm still not convinced they have much choice...

TheOak · 07-06-2012, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Alright 626. Tell me again why it is they can't just refuse to show up for camp? Not saying the Union could even muster the momentum to make that happen, but explain to me why it is that they can't. I'm still not convinced they have much choice...

They can refuse to show up for camp... They will be fined for it though.

Keep something in mind.. The CBA governs the Players Union and the Leagues relationship.... The contract between the Team and the Player governs that relationship... The League doesn't care if they do not show up for camp, the Saints front office will and there are probably terms in the players contract with the team that covers that, which usually results in some sort of forfeiture of pay...

if I understood your question correctly?

saintfan · 07-06-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

They can refuse to show up for camp... They will be fined for it though.

Keep something in mind.. The CBA governs the Players Union and the Leagues relationship.... The contract between the Team and the Player governs that relationship... The League doesn't care if they do not show up for camp, the Saints front office will and there are probably terms in the players contract with the team that covers that, which usually results in some sort of forfeiture of pay...

if I understood your question correctly?

But if (in my wet dream) players league-wide did this it's same-same since they wouldn't be getting paid if they went on strike either. I just wanna see 'em DO something damnit. LOL

TheOak · 07-06-2012, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

But if (in my wet dream) players league-wide did this it's same-same since they wouldn't be getting paid if they went on strike either. I just wanna see 'em DO something damnit. LOL

Missing practice hurts the team.
Missing games is a strike and against the CBA.

Now... If all players showed up for the first preseason game ... everything normal, coil flip... everyone sits on the 50 yard line and refuses to play...

Nation takes notice.

TXGSP · 07-06-2012, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Missing practice hurts the team.
Missing games is a strike and against the CBA.

Now... If all players showed up for the first preseason game ... everything normal, coil flip... everyone sits on the 50 yard line and refuses to play...

Nation takes notice.

Not sure how the CBA would view that, but would depend on participation clauses in contract(s) - including each player's contract. I know the example contract in the CBA from the NFLPA site had a Publicity clause requiring cooperation. Something like that could be viewed as not requiring a player to speak - silence in this case could be a valid strategy.

The players have the constructional right to Free Speech - they also have the right not to exercise it. The union could show solidarity, not particularilly for the suspended players, but against the disciplinary process in the CBA.

The largest impact would be to the fans due to the limited information that would be available as far as sound bites from the players. The media would still have access to coaches interviews and practices, but nothing to print regarding player comments.

saintfan · 07-06-2012, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Missing practice hurts the team.
Missing games is a strike and against the CBA.

Now... If all players showed up for the first preseason game ... everything normal, coil flip... everyone sits on the 50 yard line and refuses to play...

Nation takes notice.

But if all the players do it, then all the teams are hurt equally.

TXGSP · 07-06-2012, 11:30 AM

I believe a media boycott by NFLPA members could make a statement to the league. All the NFLPA needs to do is make a press release that the players words are being taken out of context and used against them.

The players could be instructed to give the following statement "I understand your question, but all questions should be routed through the NFLPA".

Make the union work for them. Seems harsh and would not be viewed in the media or fans as positive, but would definately make a statement more than holding up a finger at the start of a game to show solidarity.

saintfan · 07-06-2012, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by TXGSP

I believe a media boycott by NFLPA members could make a statement to the league. All the NFLPA needs to do is make a press release that the players words are being taken out of context and used against them.

The players could be instructed to give the following statement "I understand your question, but all questions should be routed through the NFLPA".

Make the union work for them. Seems harsh and would not be viewed in the media or fans as positive, but would definately make a statement more than holding up a finger at the start of a game to show solidarity.

I like it. The have to do SOMEthing. For real.

07-06-2012, 09:59 AM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Originally Posted by Beastmode CBA or no CBA, there is no way anyone shoud be allowed to go around aimlessly smearing someone. Someone needs to be held accountable. From a moral standpoint I agree 100%! From a legal standpoint, the precedent has been set. If public slander, or inaccurate accounts were culpable offenses there would be no news agencies in business and prisons would be full of politicians. I have never seen a political candidate taken to task for outright lies about his opponent during a campaign. Beastmode likes this.

07-06-2012, 10:23 AM	#2
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by x626xBlack From a moral standpoint I agree 100%! From a legal standpoint, the precedent has been set. If public slander, or inaccurate accounts were culpable offenses there would be no news agencies in business and prisons would be full of politicians. I have never seen a political candidate taken to task for outright lies about his opponent during a campaign. That's because politicians and news agencies aren't suspending or firing people that they're in the process of slandering. It's bad enough to start a rumor, but to convict upon nothing more is outrageous.

07-06-2012, 01:30 PM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Originally Posted by saintfan Alright 626. Tell me again why it is they can't just refuse to show up for camp? Not saying the Union could even muster the momentum to make that happen, but explain to me why it is that they can't. I'm still not convinced they have much choice... They can refuse to show up for camp... They will be fined for it though. Keep something in mind.. The CBA governs the Players Union and the Leagues relationship.... The contract between the Team and the Player governs that relationship... The League doesn't care if they do not show up for camp, the Saints front office will and there are probably terms in the players contract with the team that covers that, which usually results in some sort of forfeiture of pay... if I understood your question correctly?

07-06-2012, 02:07 PM	#5
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by x626xBlack They can refuse to show up for camp... They will be fined for it though. Keep something in mind.. The CBA governs the Players Union and the Leagues relationship.... The contract between the Team and the Player governs that relationship... The League doesn't care if they do not show up for camp, the Saints front office will and there are probably terms in the players contract with the team that covers that, which usually results in some sort of forfeiture of pay... if I understood your question correctly? But if (in my wet dream) players league-wide did this it's same-same since they wouldn't be getting paid if they went on strike either. I just wanna see 'em DO something damnit. LOL

07-06-2012, 07:21 PM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Originally Posted by saintfan But if (in my wet dream) players league-wide did this it's same-same since they wouldn't be getting paid if they went on strike either. I just wanna see 'em DO something damnit. LOL Missing practice hurts the team. Missing games is a strike and against the CBA. Now... If all players showed up for the first preseason game ... everything normal, coil flip... everyone sits on the 50 yard line and refuses to play... Nation takes notice.

07-06-2012, 11:18 AM	#3
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Alright 626. Tell me again why it is they can't just refuse to show up for camp? Not saying the Union could even muster the momentum to make that happen, but explain to me why it is that they can't. I'm still not convinced they have much choice...

07-06-2012, 07:38 PM	#7
TXGSP LET MY TEAM GO! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Just north of COWGAL HELL Posts: 296	Originally Posted by x626xBlack Missing practice hurts the team. Missing games is a strike and against the CBA. Now... If all players showed up for the first preseason game ... everything normal, coil flip... everyone sits on the 50 yard line and refuses to play... Nation takes notice. Not sure how the CBA would view that, but would depend on participation clauses in contract(s) - including each player's contract. I know the example contract in the CBA from the NFLPA site had a Publicity clause requiring cooperation. Something like that could be viewed as not requiring a player to speak - silence in this case could be a valid strategy. The players have the constructional right to Free Speech - they also have the right not to exercise it. The union could show solidarity, not particularilly for the suspended players, but against the disciplinary process in the CBA. The largest impact would be to the fans due to the limited information that would be available as far as sound bites from the players. The media would still have access to coaches interviews and practices, but nothing to print regarding player comments.
	An Optimist sees the big picture and views obstacles as temporary hurdles Last edited by TXGSP; 07-06-2012 at 07:53 PM.. Reason: Expanded

07-06-2012, 07:41 PM	#8
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by x626xBlack Missing practice hurts the team. Missing games is a strike and against the CBA. Now... If all players showed up for the first preseason game ... everything normal, coil flip... everyone sits on the 50 yard line and refuses to play... Nation takes notice. But if all the players do it, then all the teams are hurt equally.

07-06-2012, 11:30 AM	#9
TXGSP LET MY TEAM GO! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Just north of COWGAL HELL Posts: 296	I believe a media boycott by NFLPA members could make a statement to the league. All the NFLPA needs to do is make a press release that the players words are being taken out of context and used against them. The players could be instructed to give the following statement "I understand your question, but all questions should be routed through the NFLPA". Make the union work for them. Seems harsh and would not be viewed in the media or fans as positive, but would definately make a statement more than holding up a finger at the start of a game to show solidarity. saintfan likes this.
	An Optimist sees the big picture and views obstacles as temporary hurdles

07-06-2012, 11:31 AM	#10
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by TXGSP I believe a media boycott by NFLPA members could make a statement to the league. All the NFLPA needs to do is make a press release that the players words are being taken out of context and used against them. The players could be instructed to give the following statement "I understand your question, but all questions should be routed through the NFLPA". Make the union work for them. Seems harsh and would not be viewed in the media or fans as positive, but would definately make a statement more than holding up a finger at the start of a game to show solidarity. I like it. The have to do SOMEthing. For real.

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