O Line and disappearing protection

228jits · 07-19-2012, 04:36 PM

I know this is really picking the flies out of the garbage... The first 3 years of Brees donning the black and gold his sack numbers were significantly low:

2006 - 18
2007 - 16
2008 - 13

The following 3 years those numbers grew:

2009 - 20
2010 - 25
2011 - 24.

In 06/07 the starting line was:
Jammal Brown
Jamar Nesbit
Jeff Faine
Jahri Evans
Jon Stinchcomb

In 08
Jammal Brown
Carl Nicks
Jonathan Goodwin
Jahri Evans
Jon Stinchcomb

In 09/10
Jermon Bushrod
Carl Nicks
Jonathan Goodwin
Jahri Evans
Jon Stinchcomb

In 11
Jermon Bushrod
Carl Nicks
Brian De La Puente
Jahri Evans
Zach Strief

I understand that the sack numbers are low regardless of being mid 20's. Is there a way with the addition of Grubbs to bring back those Mid 2000 type numbers?

papz · 07-19-2012, 04:57 PM

I'll attribute this to being spoiled.

Just remember there was some instability and injuries along the line. Stinchcomb played hurt, Bushrod was developing, center turnover, and Charles Brown sucked donkey balls. We also go significantly younger at two G spots and at LT.

It's not an issue.

FinSaint · 07-19-2012, 05:15 PM

That '08 O-line was stacked!

Also, you have to remember that other teams learn to play better against certain O-line schemes with time and practice, so this is something that might've happened with Kromer's O-line schemes.

Still, the fact that the sack numbers are so low clearly points out that while teams have certainly studied the Saints' O-line closely, they haven't been able to dominate against it. That's just great coaching, good players, and it doesn't hurt that your QB has one of the quickest releases in the league.

dizzle88 · 07-19-2012, 05:25 PM

That 08 line was amazing at pass protection, but never managed to get a run game going

I remember about 4 losses in that year due to our inability to run the ball and convert 3rd and short situations, very painful losses

The very next year we put an emphasis on the run game and win the superbowl

I'd rather have the line we have now, sure the 08 line was great but drew just broke the single season passing yardage record, our current line isn't shabby

Intact this current group have won the madden protectors award 2 timeS

The Dude · 07-19-2012, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by 228jits

I know this is really picking the flies out of the garbage... The first 3 years of Brees donning the black and gold his sack numbers were significantly low:

2006 - 18
2007 - 16
2008 - 13

The following 3 years those numbers grew:

2009 - 20
2010 - 25
2011 - 24.

In 06/07 the starting line was:
Jammal Brown
Jamar Nesbit
Jeff Faine
Jahri Evans
Jon Stinchcomb

In 08
Jammal Brown
Carl Nicks
Jonathan Goodwin
Jahri Evans
Jon Stinchcomb

In 09/10
Jermon Bushrod
Carl Nicks
Jonathan Goodwin
Jahri Evans
Jon Stinchcomb

In 11
Jermon Bushrod
Carl Nicks
Brian De La Puente
Jahri Evans
Zach Strief

I understand that the sack numbers are low regardless of being mid 20's. Is there a way with the addition of Grubbs to bring back those Mid 2000 type numbers?

Yet every year our offense becomes more potent, breaks more records, and is more prolific as the year before.

Danno · 07-19-2012, 06:59 PM

I know you prefaced your post as nitpicking, and thats exactly what it is.

After QB, O-line is probably the position group I'm worried least about. Well, probably tied with RB, but you get my point.

At worst, we have an A-minus O-line.

228jits · 07-19-2012, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I know you prefaced your post as nitpicking, and thats exactly what it is.

After QB, O-line is probably the position group I'm worried least about. Well, probably tied with RB, but you get my point.

At worst, we have an A-minus O-line.

The group we have now is awesome. No worries on my side at all. I guess I just think they are the best line and should be able to produce those numbers all the time, especially with the running/screen game and #9's quick trigger...

You also have to realize that when we start complaining about this kind of stuff, it means there is something really special about to hit the dome... The league is probably going to think that we got trampled by another hurricane after this...

SaintsBro · 07-20-2012, 10:57 AM

Yes! I was just telling a friend, I think the atmosphere and the team at home is going to be like 8 straight "after-Katrina" Falcons games in the Dome...

As to the sacks, I'm interested in all the theories about it. Mine is that maybe Drew has been holding onto the ball a tiny bit longer, looking for that completion because he is so confident in the line as he has developed under Payton. Obviously that is not the MAIN reason but it could be a factor too. I don't have any stats on it, but he seems to me like when he gets sacked, he doesn't really "scramble" as much as use footwork to evade guys, looking, looking, looking, and then he gets clapped and dragged down in a bear hug. Or he gets sacked on plays where he sorta doesn't have a chance, like when Fujita ran in there against the Browns and clobbers him, etc.

Interesting to think about why.

TheOak · 07-20-2012, 11:07 AM

The group we have now has a new face in it and the only thing I would have of concern is the gelling and synchronization.

"also nit picking".

westbankdaze · 07-20-2012, 02:21 PM

Last seasons rams game still bugs me. Brees was useless without OL protection. I hate signing veteran OL and DL. You never know what quality of play you are gonna get out of them. I don't see much from lofton or grubbs.

07-19-2012, 04:36 PM	#1
228jits Southern Sooner Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gulfcoast, MS Posts: 83	O Line and disappearing protection I know this is really picking the flies out of the garbage... The first 3 years of Brees donning the black and gold his sack numbers were significantly low: 2006 - 18 2007 - 16 2008 - 13 The following 3 years those numbers grew: 2009 - 20 2010 - 25 2011 - 24. In 06/07 the starting line was: Jammal Brown Jamar Nesbit Jeff Faine Jahri Evans Jon Stinchcomb In 08 Jammal Brown Carl Nicks Jonathan Goodwin Jahri Evans Jon Stinchcomb In 09/10 Jermon Bushrod Carl Nicks Jonathan Goodwin Jahri Evans Jon Stinchcomb In 11 Jermon Bushrod Carl Nicks Brian De La Puente Jahri Evans Zach Strief I understand that the sack numbers are low regardless of being mid 20's. Is there a way with the addition of Grubbs to bring back those Mid 2000 type numbers?

07-19-2012, 04:57 PM	#2
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,794	I'll attribute this to being spoiled. Just remember there was some instability and injuries along the line. Stinchcomb played hurt, Bushrod was developing, center turnover, and Charles Brown sucked donkey balls. We also go significantly younger at two G spots and at LT. It's not an issue. RockyMountainSaint likes this.

07-19-2012, 05:15 PM	#3
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	That '08 O-line was stacked! Also, you have to remember that other teams learn to play better against certain O-line schemes with time and practice, so this is something that might've happened with Kromer's O-line schemes. Still, the fact that the sack numbers are so low clearly points out that while teams have certainly studied the Saints' O-line closely, they haven't been able to dominate against it. That's just great coaching, good players, and it doesn't hurt that your QB has one of the quickest releases in the league. RockyMountainSaint, dizzle88 and Beastmode like this.

07-19-2012, 05:25 PM	#4
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,541	That 08 line was amazing at pass protection, but never managed to get a run game going I remember about 4 losses in that year due to our inability to run the ball and convert 3rd and short situations, very painful losses The very next year we put an emphasis on the run game and win the superbowl I'd rather have the line we have now, sure the 08 line was great but drew just broke the single season passing yardage record, our current line isn't shabby Intact this current group have won the madden protectors award 2 timeS RockyMountainSaint likes this.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

07-19-2012, 06:20 PM	#5
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,064	Originally Posted by 228jits I know this is really picking the flies out of the garbage... The first 3 years of Brees donning the black and gold his sack numbers were significantly low: 2006 - 18 2007 - 16 2008 - 13 The following 3 years those numbers grew: 2009 - 20 2010 - 25 2011 - 24. In 06/07 the starting line was: Jammal Brown Jamar Nesbit Jeff Faine Jahri Evans Jon Stinchcomb In 08 Jammal Brown Carl Nicks Jonathan Goodwin Jahri Evans Jon Stinchcomb In 09/10 Jermon Bushrod Carl Nicks Jonathan Goodwin Jahri Evans Jon Stinchcomb In 11 Jermon Bushrod Carl Nicks Brian De La Puente Jahri Evans Zach Strief I understand that the sack numbers are low regardless of being mid 20's. Is there a way with the addition of Grubbs to bring back those Mid 2000 type numbers? Yet every year our offense becomes more potent, breaks more records, and is more prolific as the year before.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,064

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07-19-2012, 06:59 PM	#6
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	I know you prefaced your post as nitpicking, and thats exactly what it is. After QB, O-line is probably the position group I'm worried least about. Well, probably tied with RB, but you get my point. At worst, we have an A-minus O-line. RockyMountainSaint and SloMotion like this.

07-19-2012, 08:44 PM	#7
228jits Southern Sooner Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gulfcoast, MS Posts: 83	Originally Posted by Danno I know you prefaced your post as nitpicking, and thats exactly what it is. After QB, O-line is probably the position group I'm worried least about. Well, probably tied with RB, but you get my point. At worst, we have an A-minus O-line. The group we have now is awesome. No worries on my side at all. I guess I just think they are the best line and should be able to produce those numbers all the time, especially with the running/screen game and #9's quick trigger... You also have to realize that when we start complaining about this kind of stuff, it means there is something really special about to hit the dome... The league is probably going to think that we got trampled by another hurricane after this...

07-20-2012, 10:57 AM	#8
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Yes! I was just telling a friend, I think the atmosphere and the team at home is going to be like 8 straight "after-Katrina" Falcons games in the Dome... As to the sacks, I'm interested in all the theories about it. Mine is that maybe Drew has been holding onto the ball a tiny bit longer, looking for that completion because he is so confident in the line as he has developed under Payton. Obviously that is not the MAIN reason but it could be a factor too. I don't have any stats on it, but he seems to me like when he gets sacked, he doesn't really "scramble" as much as use footwork to evade guys, looking, looking, looking, and then he gets clapped and dragged down in a bear hug. Or he gets sacked on plays where he sorta doesn't have a chance, like when Fujita ran in there against the Browns and clobbers him, etc. Interesting to think about why.

07-20-2012, 11:07 AM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	The group we have now has a new face in it and the only thing I would have of concern is the gelling and synchronization. "also nit picking".

07-20-2012, 02:21 PM	#10
westbankdaze 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 843	Last seasons rams game still bugs me. Brees was useless without OL protection. I hate signing veteran OL and DL. You never know what quality of play you are gonna get out of them. I don't see much from lofton or grubbs.
westbankdaze 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 843

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