O Line and disappearing protection

228jits · 07-20-2012, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by westbankdaze

Last seasons rams game still bugs me. Brees was useless without OL protection. I hate signing veteran OL and DL. You never know what quality of play you are gonna get out of them. I don't see much from lofton or grubbs.

Really? Lofton is just hitting his prime. Grubbs has been in front of Ray Rice (One of the most productive backs in the league) and you don't see a plus side to them?

biloxi-indian · 07-20-2012, 06:35 PM

Placing the "sacks" in context as a % increase/decrease in total passing attempts might also provide a better analysis. IMHO

228jits · 07-20-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by biloxi-indian

Placing the "sacks" in context as a % increase/decrease in total passing attempts might also provide a better analysis. IMHO

Not really...

Year - Attempt - Complete - Yards

2006 - 580 - 372 - 4503
2007 - 652 - 440 - 4314
2008 - 636 - 413 - 4977
2009 - 544 - 378 - 4355
2010 - 661 - 450 - 4441
2011 - 662 - 472 - 5347

westbankdaze · 07-20-2012, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by 228jits

Really? Lofton is just hitting his prime. Grubbs has been in front of Ray Rice (One of the most productive backs in the league) and you don't see a plus side to them?

They were playing well to get paid because they knew a new contract was coming - but as always with the linesmen they get a fat contract and mail it in. Remember how good Big Boi Shaun Rogers and abrayu Franklin were - i don't. They got paid and mailed it in.

papz · 07-20-2012, 08:54 PM

Shaun Rogers wasn't playing well and was well past his prime. Franklin was playing really well and didn't fit our 4-3. They weren't mailing it in because they got paid... one just wasn't any good and they other didn't fit.

As far as Lofton is concerned, he's 26 and has been playing well since he was a rookie. He isn't some scrub who just exploded onto the scene on a contract year. Grubbs has been one of the best guards in the NFL for quite some time and still just 28. Neither of these guys have any character issues nor have they been associated with the word fat or lazy in their career.

If you can't see any upside with either of these two players, then bless your soul. You might need some happy pills for the upcoming season.

228jits · 07-20-2012, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by papz

As far as Lofton is concerned, he's 26 and has been playing well since he was a rookie. He isn't some scrub who just exploded onto the scene on a contract year. Grubbs has been one of the best guards in the NFL for quite some time and still just 28. Neither of these guys have any character issues nor have they been associated with the word fat or lazy in their career.

If you can't see any upside with either of these two players, then bless your soul. You might need some happy pills for the upcoming season.

As far as Lofton goes, he has been a great player since he was in college. He has always been a leader on the field from his time at Oklahoma, Atlanta, and Saints camp.

Grubbs has been one of the "bigger" reasons Rice has been soooo productive. Glad we have them both!!

westbankdaze · 07-20-2012, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Shaun Rogers wasn't playing well and was well past his prime. Franklin was playing really well and didn't fit our 4-3. They weren't mailing it in because they got paid... one just wasn't any good and they other didn't fit.

As far as Lofton is concerned, he's 26 and has been playing well since he was a rookie. He isn't some scrub who just exploded onto the scene on a contract year. Grubbs has been one of the best guards in the NFL for quite some time and still just 28. Neither of these guys have any character issues nor have they been associated with the word fat or lazy in their career.

If you can't see any upside with either of these two players, then bless your soul. You might need some happy pills for the upcoming season.

I can see upside but I don't see why they would have any incentive. No position is easier to fake effort than the Line. We shall see.

papz · 07-20-2012, 10:51 PM

So once a player gets paid, they don't have any incentive to play well?

How about pride? Longevity? Winning?

We should just quit now and call it a year. We just paid Drew 100 million dollars... we're screwed.

Just because one signs a contract, doesn't mean it can't be terminated. If collecting a pay check isn't enough incentive, I don't know what is.

burningmetal · 07-21-2012, 01:23 AM

Jahri Evans and Carl Nicks have been dominating players. Grubbs is not much, if any at all, of a dropoff in replacing Nicks. But other than that, our offensive line isn't that great in my opinion. Drew Brees doesn't just sit back there all day and throw when he feels like it. He moves around a lot and makes things happen, which aside from pure statistics is where I separate him from the other QB's like Brady, Manning and Rodgers.

I'm not saying the O-line is bad, but it hasn't been top notch other than the two players I mentioned. It speaks for how much talent we have that teams just can't predict what's coming or who's getting the ball... Our line is good enough, but it would never hurt for it to improve, and I think it will be at least a little bit better with the two tackles having another year of experience under them.

burningmetal · 07-21-2012, 01:38 AM

And before anyone says what I know they'll be thinking, yes, I know how we ran the ball last year. There is the fact that teams could never key in on the RB's, or any of our players, as I mentioned above, but also remember WHEN we ran the ball... The Saints play backwards. Normally when you think about wearing teams down, you're talkin' about running the ball down their throats and setting up the play action. But the Saints always come out throwing, and they're so hard to stop that they don't even need to run. When the second half came along and we were usually well ahead, the opposing defense was so tired from being on the field all day we just started running all over them. Also our stable of running backs is quite dynamic.

So my point is don't drool all over the O-line when we rush for 150 or more yards. But they are pretty decent and that's good. Just gotta hope they stay healthy, because we all saw what happened when Charlie Brown stepped in last year.

07-20-2012, 05:29 PM	#11
228jits Southern Sooner Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gulfcoast, MS Posts: 83	Originally Posted by westbankdaze Last seasons rams game still bugs me. Brees was useless without OL protection. I hate signing veteran OL and DL. You never know what quality of play you are gonna get out of them. I don't see much from lofton or grubbs. Really? Lofton is just hitting his prime. Grubbs has been in front of Ray Rice (One of the most productive backs in the league) and you don't see a plus side to them?

07-20-2012, 06:35 PM	#12
biloxi-indian Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 1,706	Placing the "sacks" in context as a % increase/decrease in total passing attempts might also provide a better analysis. IMHO darstep likes this.

07-20-2012, 07:15 PM	#13
228jits Southern Sooner Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gulfcoast, MS Posts: 83	Originally Posted by biloxi-indian Placing the "sacks" in context as a % increase/decrease in total passing attempts might also provide a better analysis. IMHO Not really... Year - Attempt - Complete - Yards 2006 - 580 - 372 - 4503 2007 - 652 - 440 - 4314 2008 - 636 - 413 - 4977 2009 - 544 - 378 - 4355 2010 - 661 - 450 - 4441 2011 - 662 - 472 - 5347

07-20-2012, 08:12 PM	#14
westbankdaze 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 843	Originally Posted by 228jits Really? Lofton is just hitting his prime. Grubbs has been in front of Ray Rice (One of the most productive backs in the league) and you don't see a plus side to them? They were playing well to get paid because they knew a new contract was coming - but as always with the linesmen they get a fat contract and mail it in. Remember how good Big Boi Shaun Rogers and abrayu Franklin were - i don't. They got paid and mailed it in.
westbankdaze 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 843

07-20-2012, 08:54 PM	#15
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,753	Shaun Rogers wasn't playing well and was well past his prime. Franklin was playing really well and didn't fit our 4-3. They weren't mailing it in because they got paid... one just wasn't any good and they other didn't fit. As far as Lofton is concerned, he's 26 and has been playing well since he was a rookie. He isn't some scrub who just exploded onto the scene on a contract year. Grubbs has been one of the best guards in the NFL for quite some time and still just 28. Neither of these guys have any character issues nor have they been associated with the word fat or lazy in their career. If you can't see any upside with either of these two players, then bless your soul. You might need some happy pills for the upcoming season. FinSaint likes this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

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07-20-2012, 09:59 PM	#16
228jits Southern Sooner Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gulfcoast, MS Posts: 83	Originally Posted by papz As far as Lofton is concerned, he's 26 and has been playing well since he was a rookie. He isn't some scrub who just exploded onto the scene on a contract year. Grubbs has been one of the best guards in the NFL for quite some time and still just 28. Neither of these guys have any character issues nor have they been associated with the word fat or lazy in their career. If you can't see any upside with either of these two players, then bless your soul. You might need some happy pills for the upcoming season. As far as Lofton goes, he has been a great player since he was in college. He has always been a leader on the field from his time at Oklahoma, Atlanta, and Saints camp. Grubbs has been one of the "bigger" reasons Rice has been soooo productive. Glad we have them both!!

07-20-2012, 10:19 PM	#17
westbankdaze 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 843	Originally Posted by papz Shaun Rogers wasn't playing well and was well past his prime. Franklin was playing really well and didn't fit our 4-3. They weren't mailing it in because they got paid... one just wasn't any good and they other didn't fit. As far as Lofton is concerned, he's 26 and has been playing well since he was a rookie. He isn't some scrub who just exploded onto the scene on a contract year. Grubbs has been one of the best guards in the NFL for quite some time and still just 28. Neither of these guys have any character issues nor have they been associated with the word fat or lazy in their career. If you can't see any upside with either of these two players, then bless your soul. You might need some happy pills for the upcoming season. I can see upside but I don't see why they would have any incentive. No position is easier to fake effort than the Line. We shall see.
westbankdaze 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 843

07-20-2012, 10:51 PM	#18
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,753	So once a player gets paid, they don't have any incentive to play well? How about pride? Longevity? Winning? We should just quit now and call it a year. We just paid Drew 100 million dollars... we're screwed. Just because one signs a contract, doesn't mean it can't be terminated. If collecting a pay check isn't enough incentive, I don't know what is.

07-21-2012, 01:23 AM	#19
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Jahri Evans and Carl Nicks have been dominating players. Grubbs is not much, if any at all, of a dropoff in replacing Nicks. But other than that, our offensive line isn't that great in my opinion. Drew Brees doesn't just sit back there all day and throw when he feels like it. He moves around a lot and makes things happen, which aside from pure statistics is where I separate him from the other QB's like Brady, Manning and Rodgers. I'm not saying the O-line is bad, but it hasn't been top notch other than the two players I mentioned. It speaks for how much talent we have that teams just can't predict what's coming or who's getting the ball... Our line is good enough, but it would never hurt for it to improve, and I think it will be at least a little bit better with the two tackles having another year of experience under them.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

07-21-2012, 01:38 AM	#20
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	And before anyone says what I know they'll be thinking, yes, I know how we ran the ball last year. There is the fact that teams could never key in on the RB's, or any of our players, as I mentioned above, but also remember WHEN we ran the ball... The Saints play backwards. Normally when you think about wearing teams down, you're talkin' about running the ball down their throats and setting up the play action. But the Saints always come out throwing, and they're so hard to stop that they don't even need to run. When the second half came along and we were usually well ahead, the opposing defense was so tired from being on the field all day we just started running all over them. Also our stable of running backs is quite dynamic. So my point is don't drool all over the O-line when we rush for 150 or more yards. But they are pretty decent and that's good. Just gotta hope they stay healthy, because we all saw what happened when Charlie Brown stepped in last year.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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