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Quarterback Jake Delhomme, entering the final leg of the modest two-year free-agent contract he signed before last season, is the obvious target for a long-term extension and no doubt will sign one before training camp starts on July 29.

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031775900462&path=!sports

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What , no holdout , no missing practices and no calling the management out in the press.

Impressive ........ ;)

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Yeah, but then he had money before the NFL. I give him credit tho...he never has been anything other than a class act.

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I\'m confused - you told us that Delhomme would sign a long-term deal? You told us that deal would probably be \"modest\"? huh?

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I told you back when the argument was going on about teams spending too much money for their QB\'s and you were saying (praising) the Panther\'s got it right that Jake would sign a neal deal...I said these things in contrast to your argument regarding \"cheap\" QB\'s...you and others indicated I made it up because you hadn\'t heard anything about it. This is at least the third time I\'ve posted something related to the soon-to-be fact that Jake in fact WILL sign a new deal.

Shall I go find the original post and refresh your memory? ;)

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Yes I think you should go look at the old posts...

When did I ever say that Jake would not receive an extension? That was never the argument Saintfan. The argument was his cost to the team relative to his play. In fact, I believe I said that he was very likely to receive an extension, but even so, his salary would still be far less than Brooks\'.

Can you show me any information about the Panthers offering or Jake requesting a $36 million contract?

My argument was, and always has been, that a less expensive and \'servicable\' QB is preferable to me (and seems to be working quite well of recent in the NFL), as compared to the high paid \"Super Star\" QB. YOU polarized the argument and said that I wanted teams to always seek out the cheapest option available. Never did I say that and I have continued to correct you when you misrepresent that. Shall I find posts to demonstrate that?

[Edited on 7/6/2004 by WhoDat]

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Tell ya what \'dat...lets just sit back and observe the upcoming season and take note of two things:

Thing One: Will all those air balls Jake tossed straight up and dead center get knocked down or intercepted this year or will he continue to be the most fortunate man in football

Thing Two: Minus a stud or two on that Carolina line this year, will the Panthers running game be what it was, and if not, will Jake\'s good fortune follow suite?

Then I guess we\'ll see if what they\'re payin\' him meets with your approval. ;)

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Still missing the point Saintfan. The general concept is one in which you forego the big name QB in order to surround an average guy with a lot of weapons. Sure Delhomme\'s play will suffer as a result of injuries to his line. More pressure and a less effective running game will affect ANY quarterback - or do you think Brooks\' play would get better without three of his starting linemen?

I\'ll tell you what - we will see. If Brooks throws for 3,500 yards, 25 TDs, 10 INTs, and a completion rating of 60%, and Delhomme throws for a paltry 2,800 yards with 18 TDs, 12 INTs, and 57% but costs half of what Brooks does, it will be very tough for me to decide who is more valuable. I mean you tell me - a top ten guy who costs $6 mil or a middle of the pack guy (i.e. 15th) who costs $2 mil.

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I guess it would depend on who got their team to the playoffs and a chance at the Superbowl. Who cares about A.B. \'s stats? They\'re important and only matter in getting W\'s. If he has a stellar year but we do not make the playoffs, what woudl it matter?


If A.B. gets us to deep into the playoffs (ofcourse, its a team effort), i\'d be happy we paid A.B. $$$.

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Jake Delhomme was rewarded for helping guide the Carolina Panthers (news) to the Super Bowl Thursday with a five-year contract extension Thursday worth $38 million.

Delhomme will get $12 million up front, including a signing bonus and option bonuses. Delhomme had one year remaining on his two-year contract.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...thers_delhomme

Ya\'ll rekon he\'s worth 12 million up front, and 38 million over 5 years?

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I like Jake....

but NO.

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If he continues to throw the ball up for grabs and have his WR\'s make awesome game winning catches, yes.

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LOL, great post Danno, right on target!!!

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WOW!! I can\'t believe the Panthers paid Jake that kind of money!! Jake got a bigger signing bonus than Brooks.

The move is cool with me. With more money comes more expectations. Jake didn\'t throw many passes last year and how he deserved that much money is beyond me. But, let\'s hope the Panthers open that high octane passing game up this year and let Jake showcase his talent.

Let Jake have to carry that offense with his passing abilities. Maybe he can do it, but I would bet money that he can\'t get the job done. Not to the extent of justifing that contract.

If Jake doesn\'t work out it could set the Panthers back for years to come. BIG, BIG, gamble, IMO.

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Yea, I am sure the Saints receiver core much prefer those shoe lace shots Brooks throws .

2003 Completion percentages

Brooks 59.1
Delhomme 59.2

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I will say this:

No, Jake is not worth that much to me right now. I\'m sure Bilyl and Saintfan will be all over me, but I\'m honest and I call \'em like I see \'em. In my eyes, the draw of a Jake Delhomme is that he is cheap and efficient and fiery, but not overly talented or a guy who will carry the team often times. You pay a guy like that less so you can surround him with the best skill players around.

That said, right now, I would not have paid Jake that kind of money and I\'m surprised Carolina did. I hope that he becomes the next Joe Montana b/c I like the guy. I hope he proves that he is worth much more than $38M - but no, right now I think that\'s a bad move by Carolina. We\'ll see if the guy develops.

I\'ll say this - Jake\'s number his first year as a starter were better than Brooks\' numbers in his first year. So all you guys who support Brooks should logically believe that Delhomme got a fair deal. Is that what you think?

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Personally, I saw thing coming a long time ago, and I\'m glad it happened. I support Brooks to be sure, but I don\'t have anything against Jake...never did. The kid plays with heart and I think he\'s worth every penny. I\'ve always liked Jake, and I\'ve really come to admire the guy after watching him play his guts out in the Big Game. He got lucky last year...often...but anybody that says he\'s not talented enough to win a game for his team isn\'t really paying attention.

Just so this doesn\'t turn into another Brooks debate, remove him from the equation for a minute and take a look around the league...not specifically at the QB\'s, but in general. There really aren\'t too many guys, in my opinion, that are honestly worth what they\'re gettin paid. There are some, but there aren\'t many. Jake comes a lot closer to being worth his salary that a lot of guys...wouldn\'t ya\'ll agree?

Rock on Jake -- but I still hope you throw 8 (or more) INT\'S against the Saints this year!

:P

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My sentiments exactly.

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There seems to be some folks with the logic (if you can call it that) that because the Panthers went to the super bowl that Jake Delhomme deserves to be paid like a \"super bowl\" QB. But that logic is flawed -- BIG TIME!!!!!!!!

Because Jake went to the super bowl, does that mean he\'s better than Brooks? Hmmm...

Well, he must be better than Peyton Manning too, right? If not, then quit bringing up the super bowl!! That\'s just crazy logic to try and justify Delhomme\'s contract.

Jake was in a situation where he was asked not to lose most of the games. And that\'s exactly what he did most of the time. He didn\'t lose games. As a matter of fact, Jake played poorly in a lot of games last year. He got extremely luckly in a couple too.

Jake played well in about 3 games last year and that\'s it!! If some of ya\'ll want to judge a QB by the number of wins, then knock yourself out. I suppose Jake is better than Dan Marino too??

The Panthers\' success was about 10% Delhomme and 90% the rest of the team.

If the Panthers feel that Delhomme is the kind of QB that can carrry that offense, then they got a good deal if he can indeed accomplish that.

If not, they got screwed -- BIG TIME!!

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I agree Gumbo, I had this argument with some at work yesterday. Just because he made it to the SB does means he deserves the top salary? Bull!!! You mean to tell me that Trent Dilfer deserves a top salary?! And he WON the SB! Fact is Jake is a solid QB that won\'t make mistakes, just like Dilfer. Dilfer went there because his defense carried the team, and Jake went there because Steven Davis carried that team with alittle help from defense, and Jake NOT screwing up. While I am still a huge Jake fan because he grew up 20 miles from me, he should not be getting the top dollar......YET!

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Alright try this Billy .

The Saints are billed as the offensive jaugernaut , with the high powered explosive offense and have invested highly in it to surround Brooks with the talent to make him excel in the system .

The Panther are billed as the defensive jaugernaut , with the we will stop you mentality .

Yet for some reason , when you lay the stats from Brooks and Delhomme side by side , you just do not see Brooks as the Quarterback as an offensive powerhouse team .

Brooks has the tools in place around him to light the score board up , yet he puts up stats that have him rated at the level of a defensive minded team . For the investment in players the Saints staff has surrounded Brooks with , he should be putting up Peyton Manning type numbers .

Delhomme in his first year for a new team , in a new system managed to put up stats comparable to a veteran in a familiar system with better players on offense surrounding him .

You can toss in the interceptions comparison for Brooks and Delhomme , but try not to forget the sack totals . Delhomme may give up a few more interceptions but he is less likely to get caught in the backfield trying to make up his mind as to where to throw the ball ..... ;)

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08 --

The thing that I\'m hearing from the Jake supporters is that Jake will improve on his first season with the Panthers. That could be true. Or, it might not work out that way. Maybe, Jake played the best ball of his career last year. (and he didn\'t play that good last year.) Maybe it was a magical ride for the Panthers and Jake.

Will Jake be the next Tom Brady? Well, the Panthers had better hope so. Personally, I don\'t see it.

I\'m sure the Panthers are feeling warm and fuzzy inside since making it to the super bowl last year. Oh, what a differece a year makes, though.

That new offensive line might not allow Jake to have all that protection he enjoyed last year. Maybe that running game isn\'t so successful this year. Maybe Jake might have to be a passing QB.

I rank Jake Delhomme in the bottom 10 of QB\'s in the NFL. I\'m glad Jake is in our division, cause he doesn\'t scare me NONE. I think Jake is the weak link to that team. I wish every team had a Jake Delhomme.

I told ya\'ll last year that the Bucs were not the team to beat. This year I\'m tellin\' ya Jake might lose his starting job.

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I tell ya something too .

I would not worry about the remodel of the Superdome if Jake lights it up in the Superdome this season , because the roof is going to come off ......

If the Panthers beat the Saints at home . Hasbeen better have a great hiding spot ..... :P

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...and I\'M telling you, there\'s life still left in that pony.

WHACK WHACK WHACK!!!

When are you people, and I\'m talking to both sides here, going to wake up and realize that your not going to change the minds of the other people on this board? How many times must we rehash the same ****? They\'re both good QB\'s- let\'s try to get past this.

[Edited on 18/6/2004 by BlackandBlue]

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LMAO!!

Hey, I got off the pony, but someone put some new shoes and a new saddle on \'em and rode him back into town. Only this time the pony came back a multi-million dollar horse. But, I say he\'s still a MULE__ :P

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Hah, that\'s a pretty funny analogy.

I\'m not trying to rip anyone in particular on this, I just wish we could argue a new subject, but I\'m not sure if you would get the same heated debates as you would with the Jake vs. AB has, and apparently, will continue to have. All I see is two men who are starting in the NFL, which automatically puts them in the top .0001% of their field, and sure as ****, they are there for a reason, not a fluke. One man led his team to the Super Bowl, and don\'t nitpick with me on me using the term \"lead\"- it was intentional, while the other is an athletic speciman who put up some of the best stats of any QB last year- we\'re talking Pro Bowl numbers, had it not been for the fumbles. They both have their flaws- accept it and move on.
And if anyone tells me that I don\'t have to read the threads if I don\'t like the subject, you\'ll be sucking air through your ass if I ever get ahold of you. :D

[Edited on 18/6/2004 by BlackandBlue]

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We aint beatin the horse any longer , some of us are just tenderizing it to make it easier for others to swallow ..... :P

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Well, B&B. I understand the frustration some might have with the AB and Delhomme debates. Let me first say, I\'m not the one that started it. But, I have no problem with it and I enjoy throwing my 2 pennies in there.

I think you are right in one way, in that the debate has gone on for a long time and it\'s probably been beaten to death.

However, new situations arise that that bring the spot light back on the same old tired debate. Delhommes\' contract is fuel for the fire.

It\'s not just this board that the debate is being revisited. It\'s on every Saints board on the net. As well as some other NFL team boards.

I don\'t think it\'s about who is right or wrong, because only time is going to determine that.

You are neutral on most subjects, as I think you are about Delhomme and Brooks. But, some aren\'t nuetral and are passionate about the debate. IMHO, I think everyone should post their opinions on the subject as long as it\'s kept civil and no one is calling someone\'s opinion stupid.

But, that\'s not my call. I don\'t control what is posted on this board.

So, I know being that you are neutral on the subject that it must be frustrating as hell to read something over and over that you don\'t care about, but I\'m sure there are some folks that feel the same way about subjects you enjoy reading.

Know what I mean?

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B&B,

(1) What do you mean Jake \"lead\" the team?

(2) If you don\'t like this discussion, don\'t read it.

:P

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Sorry, I couldn\'t resist.

Though, I must say that there hasn\'t been too much to talk about lately - not only that, everyone seemed to be away last week. Where the heck was everyone? See, maybe I\'m not very interesting, but I tried to start a discussion on two different topics (I even tied one of them into the the \"is Haz a good coach point, for crying out loud), and, as I recall, only Euphoria seemed to want to play.

Other than the lack of depth at DB and the unproven nature of our LBs, I haven\'t seem much in the way of discussion since Billy\'s claim that our CBs were good enough.

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PS - The dead horse thing was pretty dang funny!

PPS - I hate this debate too. :(

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Gatorman --

You are from the same area as Jake Delhomme and obviously you are a big supporter of his. There\'s nothing wrong with that. But, I want to be honest and up front about my feelings towards Delhomme.

I\'m not going to be like some of the Brooks bashers and claim to pull for him only to spew hate in every other breath. I call it like I see it and rightly or wrongly that\'s the way I see it.

So, as far as Delhomme is concerned. I don\'t like him. Can\'t stand the guy. It really has nothing to do with Delhomme personally. It has to do with MOST Delhomme supporters are Brooks bashers. Being that I\'m a Brooks supporter it puts me at odds with the Delhomme supporters.

You see, Brooks has been placed under the microscope by you and all the rest of the guys that are going around proclaiming Jakes greatness.

The way I see it is Brooks is cut no slack and Delhomme isn\'t held to the same standard.

Am I suppose to support Jake because he\'s a nice guy or because he\'s from Louisiana? Or maybe because he used to play for the Saints? Well, I don\'t. As a matter of fact he plays for a division rival and I wish nothing but the worst for him. I would hope that all Saints fans feel the same way.

Edit: To answer your question, Jake didn\'t play great last year and it would surprise the hell out of me if Jake played great this year.




[Edited on 19/6/2004 by GumboBC]

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I would feel like they weren\'t Saints fans. Since Aaron Brooks is the starting QB for the Saints.

Prejudiced? Yes, I am prejudiced against Jake. But, at least I\'m honest. Which is more than I can for say for___________________. You fill in the blank.

NEVER did I say all Delhomme supporters are Brooks bashers. I said MOST. And I stand by that statement. Do I have proof? NOPE!! But, that\'s my opinion.

So, open yourself up to the FACT that YOU and a lot of other folks are using different scales to judge AB and Delhomme. You know, having an open mind works well for other folks too.

There\'s some of that crazy logic again. So, you want the Panthers to win every game except the 2 they play against us? That means Carolina will finish 14-2. Or at least that\'s what you\'re hoping. Are you sure you\'re not too much of a Panther fan? That\'s going to be mighty hard for the Saints to match.

Maybe you might not should wish the Panthers so much success?

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Alright, I can\'t help myself now.

(1) Gator is right about part of this: \"Jake wiil prove to be a great NFL QB regardless of what Brooks does. \" Jake and Aaron are totally different people - and it is obvious to me that the success of one has NOTHING to do with the success of the other. Which QB is better - doesn\'t that require MUCH MORE evidence than we have? I\'d say.

(2) Would it surprise me that Jake would do great again next season? Well, sorta yeah. This idea of \"great\" \"again\" puzzles me. It is not clear that he was \"great\" last season, so \"again\" seems out of place. It is not clear to me that on the basis of one season where a clear running team did well that the QB should get that much praise, let alone a prediction of future \"greatness\". If Jake has a solid season this year, then I think we will have some good evidence about how good he is. Until then it surprises me that people are willing to say that he will definitely be great - on those grounds we ought to still be saying how great Haz is after he lead us to the playoffs a total of ONE time. What Jake did last year is no more or no less than what Haz (or AB for that matter) did for us that year (as far as evidence of goodness goes)! Now, there is no one here who is going to say that AB or Haz are GREAT based on that one year - why would we say this of Jake after ONE such performance? That seems strange.

(3) To go with BnB on this, why are we talking about this? It seems to me that we have some idea of how good AB is, but we have very little evidence about how good Jake is - one season does not make for a reasonable induction (i.e. prediction) about the future greatness of any player - just look at any of the leagues \"one hit wonders\".

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I disagree... I think you are going to see Jake unravel. He is a solid QB a great 2nd string but when he is going to have to win a game instead of luck his time will run out. Now don\'t get me wrong Jake I like but as far as a stud qb... he isn\'t in the top 10 that I would draft first out of the starting qb\'s in the NFL.

DB\'s - we have ample... people keep saying we don\'t have depth because we don\'t have that Shut down corner...

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Man, Gator and Billy going head to head, BnB talking about ripping new azzholes, this is getting fun.

I\'ve got a couple of things I need to get out on this.

1. Props to Saintfan. I\'m big enough to admit I was wrong and he was right on this one. I knew that the Panthers would sign Jake to a long term deal, but I really didn\'t expect them to throw $40 mill at the guy. Saintfan said they would, and he was right.

2. Billy, you just keep on doing it.
Ha ha ha. So in your mind, Jake Delhomme\'s year last year was worse that these other starting QBs last season:
Doug Johnson
Jeff Blake
Tommy Maddox
Kordell Stewart
Vinny Testeverde
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
Drew Brees
Rich Gannon
Tim Couch
Kelly Holcomb
Jay Fiedler

And that\'s just off the top of my head. Jake Delhomme\'s year as a first year starter was as good or better than Brooks\' first year as a starter considering EVERYTHING that goes into the equation, not just TD passes and Yards. But like Saintfan said, tkae Brooks out of the equation. Delhomme, in his first year as a starter, played better all year long than a lot of other veteran QBs. He also did one very important thing - he got better every week.

I think the problem here is that you cannot seperate Delhomme from Brooks. You must hate Delhomme to support your love for Brooks. Why is that? In any event, you\'ve given us another bold statement, the accuracu of which I will enjoy tracking over the next season.

Of course he is. I mean, I equate the word Manning with the word loser. But I\'d still trade Jake with Peyton straight up. LMAO!! I\'d stay away from Peyton comparisons from now on Billy.


Frankly, I wouldn\'t be surprised either way with Delhomme this season. The way he progressed last year was impressive. He very well may continue that trend. He may also hit the sophomore slump that many young QBs face, like uh, I don\'t know, Aaron Brooks had.

To me the point is and has always been value. Unless Jake breaks at least into the top 10 QBs in the league then the Panthers are overpaying. I\'m not sure that\'s the kind of guy Delhomme is. He seems better fit to be a Trent Dilfer to me than to be a Peyton, Culpepper, or even a throw back to Montana (though there are some similarities there).

Either way, I\'m happy that the guy made it and I think given his ability and work ethic, he will do well and will probably prove that he deserves it.

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Hey, I\'m on record as saying I don\'t like Delhomme. At least I\'m tellin\' ya straight up where I stand. Unlike you on Aaron Brooks -- I don\'t ride the fence on the issue.

In my mind you can\'t stand Brooks. The proof is there. You just won\'t admit it. For whatever reason.

It\'s a pretty well know fact that MOST Brooks bashers are staunch Delhomme supporters and that has turned me on Delhomme. Sure, it might be silly, but call me silly. :P

For me, it\'s a game within the game. I have my teams and players I pull for and against. It\'s just something that makes every Sunday a little more enjoyable. I think we all do that to a certain degree.

You and some others here have just made me not like Delhomme. Ya know what I mean?

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Silly!

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Fine Euph, we\'ll discuss this.

I say we have no depth at CB, and it has nothing to do with this silly concept of a \"shut down corner\" whatever the fudge that is. Here is why:

(1) Depth defined: having at least one vetran who can step up and start for a few games if the starter is out - taken from an earlier discussion.
(2) Vetran defined: has more than 3 years NFL experience and has started at the position in question at least on occassion - ok that is mine, but sounds reasonable to me.

Our CBs:
Starters: Craft, Thomas
Nickle: Ambrose
Backups: Brown, Brooks, Craver, and some other guys that I can\'t think of off the top of my head - which is probably a bad sign.

Depth? Ambrose is the only one who even comes close to qualifying, and I\'m pretty sure the second game he has to start teams go after him with quicker WRs and beat him (I really like Ambrose, but in a foot race, his best days have passed).

Thus, we are not deep at CB.

What the heck is a \"shut down corner\" anyway? Are these two examples of shut down corners? Deon Sanders and Champ Bailey? There can\'t be too many guys like that, so it would be ridiculous to say that a team needed such a guy to be deep at CB. Also, who really wants a Deon - he is a scheme nightmare, you have to protect him so he doesn\'t have to stop the run! A burden and not a boon, I\'d say.

Would it make me happy if we had a guy who could take away a #2 WR? Heck yeah - that\'s what I think could make our defense dominant! However, do we need such a guy? No. Do I think we need another guy who can start at corner (even if he makes us a little nervous) to play behind Thomas, Craft, Brown, and Ambrose? Damn straight we do.

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Who\'s better when the game is on the line? Brooks or Delhomme? Check this out....


Passer Rating by Down:
FIRST DOWN 93.2 -Jake
FIRST DOWN 95.0 - Aaron

SECOND DOWN 76.7 - Jake
SECOND DOWN 79.9 - Aaron

THIRD DOWN 65.3 - Jake
THIRD DOWN 93.7 - Aaron




Passer Rating by Quarter:
1ST QUARTER 68.8 - Delhomme
1ST QUARTER 81.7 - Brooks

2ND QUARTER 69.3 - Delhomme
2ND QUARTER 98.9 - Brooks

3RD QUARTER 97.5 - Delhomme
3RD QUARTER 77.5 - Brooks

4TH QUARTER 88.2 - Delhomme
4TH QUARTER 92.8 - Brooks

FOURTH QUARTER WITHIN 7 -- 91.3 - Delhomme
FOURTH QUARTER WITHIN 7 -- 93.5 - Brooks

OVERTIME 23.8 - Delhomme
OVERTIME 118.8 - Brooks

On critical 3rd downs, Dehomme is terrible with a paser rating of 65.3. Brooks is great with a passer rating of 93.7.

In the crtical 4th quarter Delhomme is very good with a passer rating of 88.2. But, Brooks is better with a passer rating of 92.8.

In overtime when everything is on the line. Delhomme is terrible with a QB rating of 23.8. Brooks is fantastic with a QB rating of 118.8.

Who do you want for your QB?