The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion

Rugby Saint II · 09-13-2012, 12:54 PM

The presonnel doesn't fit the scheme. And thanks to old Rog' we weren't able to give Spags any help this year.

Beastmode · 09-13-2012, 03:48 PM

Spags is good at what he does but for him to come in and in one season create a great defense...I think most fans condsider that unrealistic.

Add to that the coaching shake-up and he's facing a major uphill battle. New system, new players, new coaches week to week...I'm just hoping he can get it good enough. Once the offense steps up that's all we need.

saintfan · 09-13-2012, 04:55 PM

Well, I didn't see the "We Just Suck" option, but I voted anyway...

SaintsBro · 09-13-2012, 05:03 PM

Redskins had 12 possessions, 8 of which scored. You force them to punt two more times per half, instead of points, or even just two or three more punts total in the game, and at the end of the day you would be looking at one of those typical 31-17 type manhandling scores that we all know and love so well in the Dome. It's really that simple. Does not need to be a world-beating defense.

AllSaints · 09-13-2012, 06:57 PM

Its been one game..... Now if CAM bounces back and we make him look like Joe Montana ugh smh... Drew will have to carry the team again....

The Dude · 09-14-2012, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Still too early, but our personnel isn't a perfect match for Spag's system. We need a couple more pieces.

With that said, we should still be middle of the pack on the defensive side of the ball. There's enough talent there to finish ranked between 10th-16th. Thats really all we need to win it all.

Under normal circumstances maybe, this year we will need a little more than that. I don't see our defense having a chance of being any higher than middle of the pack, so to win it all our Offense has to be absolutely flawless, luck has to go our way, special teams has to play lights out, and Breesus really will have to walk on water. Its hard to make up for not having a head coach man.

FinSaint · 09-14-2012, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

I will add to that. Spags needs one person who can consistently get to the QB and another who can do it when it needs to be done.

This will create a double team for the stronger guy and a mismatch for the weaker one right next to him..

2010 Vikings for example. Jarred Allen with Guion right next to him

Guion had 12 tackles and 2 sacks
Allen had 45 tackles and 11 sacks in 2011 he has 22 sacks

That's 24 sacks coming from that side of the ball. That's production.

Not exactly apples to apples but you get my drift.

In 2010, the Vikes still had the "Williams Wall" as their DTs - Pat and Kevin Williams - Guion was only a rotational player who was also brought in for special packages.

Pat Williams started 16 of 16 games, as did Kevin Williams. Also, last year Allen played next to Kevin Williams, who is considered by many to be one of the best 4-3 DTs in the league. Kevin usually lines up as the RDT.

To me a better example concerning the Vikes front 4 would be how Brian Bobison shined as the other DE last year after Ray Edwards went to Atlanta. Robison had been a depth and ST guy before that without any significant accomplishments, but after he earned the starting position in the preseason - he was really good all through the season and managed to get 8 sacks. More than any numbers could tell, Robison was a really disruptive force on the field and significantly helped Allen get some of his sacks. Robison's emergence as a real threat forced opposing defenses to not only concentrate on Allen with double teams, but also to put some effort into stopping Robison on the other edge, which in turn allowed Allen to have more/better chances to the get to the QB.

It would be nice if the Saints had a player of Allen's or William's quality in their front 4, but players like that are rare, and they cost a lot when they could be had in the free agency.

TheOak · 09-14-2012, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

In 2010, the Vikes still had the "Williams Wall" as their DTs - Pat and Kevin Williams - Guion was only a rotational player who was also brought in for special packages.

Pat Williams started 16 of 16 games, as did Kevin Williams. Also, last year Allen played next to Kevin Williams, who is considered by many to be one of the best 4-3 DTs in the league. Kevin usually lines up as the RDT.

To me a better example concerning the Vikes front 4 would be how Brian Bobison shined as the other DE last year after Ray Edwards went to Atlanta. Robison had been a depth and ST guy before that without any significant accomplishments, but after he earned the starting position in the preseason - he was really good all through the season and managed to get 8 sacks. More than any numbers could tell, Robison was a really disruptive force on the field and significantly helped Allen get some of his sacks. Robison's emergence as a real threat forced opposing defenses to not only concentrate on Allen with double teams, but also to put some effort into stopping Robison on the other edge, which in turn allowed Allen to have more/better chances to the get to the QB.

It would be nice if the Saints had a player of Allen's or William's quality in their front 4, but players like that are rare, and they cost a lot when they could be had in the free agency.

Good reply. LOL I knew I was reaching to make my point.

View Poll Results: What is your view of the 2012 defensive players and scheme?
We have the right pieces for the right Defensive Scheme.	3	10.71%
Our defensive scheme and our defensive personnel do not match.	3	10.71%
The season needs to play out a little more before I decide.	22	78.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

09-13-2012, 12:54 PM	#11
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion The presonnel doesn't fit the scheme. And thanks to old Rog' we weren't able to give Spags any help this year.

09-13-2012, 03:48 PM	#12
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Spags is good at what he does but for him to come in and in one season create a great defense...I think most fans condsider that unrealistic. Add to that the coaching shake-up and he's facing a major uphill battle. New system, new players, new coaches week to week...I'm just hoping he can get it good enough. Once the offense steps up that's all we need. TheOak likes this.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

09-13-2012, 04:55 PM	#13
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Well, I didn't see the "We Just Suck" option, but I voted anyway...

09-13-2012, 05:03 PM	#14
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Redskins had 12 possessions, 8 of which scored. You force them to punt two more times per half, instead of points, or even just two or three more punts total in the game, and at the end of the day you would be looking at one of those typical 31-17 type manhandling scores that we all know and love so well in the Dome. It's really that simple. Does not need to be a world-beating defense.

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09-13-2012, 06:57 PM	#15
AllSaints Breakin Records Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Deville, Louisiana Posts: 2,167	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Its been one game..... Now if CAM bounces back and we make him look like Joe Montana ugh smh... Drew will have to carry the team again....

09-14-2012, 12:22 AM	#16
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,050	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Originally Posted by Danno Still too early, but our personnel isn't a perfect match for Spag's system. We need a couple more pieces. With that said, we should still be middle of the pack on the defensive side of the ball. There's enough talent there to finish ranked between 10th-16th. Thats really all we need to win it all. Under normal circumstances maybe, this year we will need a little more than that. I don't see our defense having a chance of being any higher than middle of the pack, so to win it all our Offense has to be absolutely flawless, luck has to go our way, special teams has to play lights out, and Breesus really will have to walk on water. Its hard to make up for not having a head coach man.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,050

09-14-2012, 07:47 AM	#17
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Originally Posted by x626xBlack I will add to that. Spags needs one person who can consistently get to the QB and another who can do it when it needs to be done. This will create a double team for the stronger guy and a mismatch for the weaker one right next to him.. 2010 Vikings for example. Jarred Allen with Guion right next to him Guion had 12 tackles and 2 sacks Allen had 45 tackles and 11 sacks in 2011 he has 22 sacks That's 24 sacks coming from that side of the ball. That's production. Not exactly apples to apples but you get my drift. In 2010, the Vikes still had the "Williams Wall" as their DTs - Pat and Kevin Williams - Guion was only a rotational player who was also brought in for special packages. Pat Williams started 16 of 16 games, as did Kevin Williams. Also, last year Allen played next to Kevin Williams, who is considered by many to be one of the best 4-3 DTs in the league. Kevin usually lines up as the RDT. To me a better example concerning the Vikes front 4 would be how Brian Bobison shined as the other DE last year after Ray Edwards went to Atlanta. Robison had been a depth and ST guy before that without any significant accomplishments, but after he earned the starting position in the preseason - he was really good all through the season and managed to get 8 sacks. More than any numbers could tell, Robison was a really disruptive force on the field and significantly helped Allen get some of his sacks. Robison's emergence as a real threat forced opposing defenses to not only concentrate on Allen with double teams, but also to put some effort into stopping Robison on the other edge, which in turn allowed Allen to have more/better chances to the get to the QB. It would be nice if the Saints had a player of Allen's or William's quality in their front 4, but players like that are rare, and they cost a lot when they could be had in the free agency.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

09-14-2012, 07:55 AM	#18
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Originally Posted by FinSaint In 2010, the Vikes still had the "Williams Wall" as their DTs - Pat and Kevin Williams - Guion was only a rotational player who was also brought in for special packages. Pat Williams started 16 of 16 games, as did Kevin Williams. Also, last year Allen played next to Kevin Williams, who is considered by many to be one of the best 4-3 DTs in the league. Kevin usually lines up as the RDT. To me a better example concerning the Vikes front 4 would be how Brian Bobison shined as the other DE last year after Ray Edwards went to Atlanta. Robison had been a depth and ST guy before that without any significant accomplishments, but after he earned the starting position in the preseason - he was really good all through the season and managed to get 8 sacks. More than any numbers could tell, Robison was a really disruptive force on the field and significantly helped Allen get some of his sacks. Robison's emergence as a real threat forced opposing defenses to not only concentrate on Allen with double teams, but also to put some effort into stopping Robison on the other edge, which in turn allowed Allen to have more/better chances to the get to the QB. It would be nice if the Saints had a player of Allen's or William's quality in their front 4, but players like that are rare, and they cost a lot when they could be had in the free agency. Good reply. LOL I knew I was reaching to make my point.