Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Thanks Guido. I feel better...a little.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Hey at least he waited till we won a game right? What a douche.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Suprised Smith's suspension wasn't reduced. Vilma was never going to get his suspension reduced because of the court case.

The reductions in the other suspensions appears to be for spite and a bit vindictive in my view.

I still want to see the report from the ex-FBI investigator... Wonder how wide his investigation was?

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Wow..I am going to say this the best way I can trying not to sound like I am insulting you.

You can't see the difference between trying to intentionally hurt someone and someone getting hurt from a legal play/hit? You are the reason Godell still has fans.

When you can prove the intent, let me know.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Because Vlima's twitter is always awesome.

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I hate Roger Godell do you really think he took the time and looked at the evidence. It was a waste of time for the players and why some get reduced and not all of them.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

You need to stay away from analogies, and watch 12 Angry Men.

... anyway...

Football players hit each other as hard as they can. The rules of the game allow for this. When you hit someone as hard as you can, there is a chance the other guy is going to get hurt in some way: plain shaken from the impact, or get his bell rung, get the wind knocked out of him, bruise a muscle or a bone, to breaking a bone, or snapping a tendon, etc etc etc. This occurs every week in the NFL. On every game. That there may be an extra $1,000 dlls for someone who makes 2 mil a year and during the course of legal play knocked the wind out of someone else, or rang someone else's bell, that doesn't make it that the player is out to purposely maim someone with the intention to receive what amounts to $10 for you and me.

Now, let's take a real life example: how about the hit that knocked Pierre Thomas out of the playoff game against the Whiners. The safety hit Thomas with the crown of his helmet on the side of the head of Thomas. A legal play. Did the safety intend to injure Thomas? Yes or no? You cannot tell what his intention was unless he tells you, but you cannot argue that, if the safety got a token sum of cash for the hit, that he intended to injure Thomas, but if he didn't get the token amount of cash, he didn't intent to injure Thomas.

And therein lies the issue: the outcome and consequences of legal play are the same, whether there is a token reward for any particular outcome or consequence, or not. Goodell has you believing that hitting someone senseless within the rules is OK, but hitting someone senseless within the rules and then getting a token reward makes you detrimental to the game of football.

Now, let's talk about what started this all, Brett Farve and the 2009 NFCCG. I dare you to watch any Steelers or Eagles game, and see the hits Big Ben and Vick take, on any given Sunday... can you honestly tell me that there is a difference from the hits Big Ben and Vick take on a weekly basis from the hits Farve took that day? Can you watch the 2009 Saints-Vikings game and tell me all the hits on Farve were illegal, with the intention of hurting him? I also dare you to watch the very Vikings defense in 2008 and 2009, especially the 2008 Vikings-Texans game, and you tell me which team was out to injure a QB. Guess which defensive player had the highest amount of fines due to illegal hits in 2009? Jared Allen.

And lastly, Goodell has you believing the Saints are the only team who do/did this.

Now, let me ask you, remember 2010 and the fines Dunta Robinson got for spearing WRs, all illegal hits? Remember your coach saying "that is how we coach them" when asked about Robinson's hits? What do you think about that? Is your coach coaching his team to intentionally hurt players? After all, they are coaching players to lay illegal hits...

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

So I'm guessing this is going back to court right?

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Paying to injure as Goodell initially defined it was that the Saints intentionally set out to injure players.

If you would take the time to pull your head out of your ass you would realize that the definition of a "cartoff" by everyone involved is a player that missed a play due to a hard hit. Paying to injure means trying to injure a player, not trying to hurt a player. Every time a defensive player hits the field his job is to HURT the opponent. If the HURT he puts on that opponent takes him out of the game for a play or more, so much the better. The Saints, like most other teams in the league, had a pot that rewarded those legal hard hits.

I know you are much smarter than you put on here and know the difference.

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So Radical, what is your reply to this? You can't have one unless you continue with your delusional belief that the Saints are horrible monsters that deserve ultimate admonition. You chose to come over here to our site and continue the unfounded and illogical rhetoric that you have spewed on your own site about this farce. Now it is your turn to face the music. I have had the truth behind my defense, but now you have to defend your stand with nothing of substance.

Have at it big man.

;)

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

+1

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Yup. Goodell knew that all along and that is why he played it the way he did. He threw a couple of people under the bus along the way and neither of them are who you might suspect.

;)

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

This fight must not end.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

What does that mean?

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Wow u guys have patience explaining in full details to a jackass Falcons fan. Better luck talking to brick wall on Bourbon St.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Were in for a long fight.

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Yes we are. It is the good fight.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

I have been in the long fight since 1967 and I am in no mind to give it up any time before I die. Hell, I'll carry the fight beyond the grave. I'm wearing my Black and Gold to meet the Great Beyond!

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

sick of this bounty sh!t...suspend em all, dont suspend em...I dont even care anymore.....Im done with it

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

There's no way to prove intent, but if you're paying for injuries, which is what paying for cart-offs is, then you're encouraging it.

That's the whole point of it. The Saints encouraged players to cause injury via payment, hence the discipline.

Sounds like ticky-tacky word games. What the meaning of the word is is and what not. I'd like to see the source on the second meaning of cart-offs, because like I said on AFT, I haven't really followed this whole thing. Bountygate simply doesn't interest me that much. The outcome doesn't matter to me, and I'm not going to try to be obtuse simply because it's the Saints involved in the matter.

Regardless, if you're paying players to knock players out of the game, you're paying them to injure other players. The intent is established right there.

I've responded to as much as I'm going to bother responding to at the moment. You're sounding a bit too much like Beef right now in my opinion(half the cursing of course). I jumped over here just on a whim to see what was up over here, but you're kinda coming across like I've treated you like garbage and you brought me over here to "stand trial," as if you couldn't say what you wanted to say there without real reprisal. If anything I thought I was closer to cordial than some vindictive jerk spouting hateful rhetoric like you're implying I was.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

I guess you don't have an actual response, other than regurgitate Goodell's position. Fine.

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What's there to argue? If the guy who was in charge of it all is admitting to it, what more needs to be said. So far, I've been given nothing but semantics games. You got a guy telling his players to go take out another player's ACL, people paying money for knocking players out of the game, etc.

The insanity of some of the stuff I've read from Saints fans since the start sounds about like the crap I was reading when the dog fighting case broke with Vick. It was all a big conspiracy theory, etc.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Dunta Robinson never speared any WR.

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Let see if the Jets OL hit on Cushing brings any fine or suspension.

That hit was as "dirty" as any I have seen in years in the league.

If Der Kommisar is going to stand behind the "I'm making the game safer" ploy to supposedly protect the Offensive players he damn sure better protect the defensive players.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Here's a video of Dunta Robinson spearing two wide receivers.


Sure looks like he's using this helmet as a weapon to lay out those receivers.

League must've thought so too. They fined him $25,000 for the first one and $40,000 for the second one.

And coach Mike Smith's response to reporters about the hits was "That's the way we teach it"

Credibility weakened, Goodell couldn't back down
 

Jarrett Bell, USA TODAY Sports

Bell: Credibility weakened, Goodell couldn't back down



I'm not a fan of saying "this," but... this.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Glad to see we are all passionate about this issue, but in the grand scheme of things, it's a moot point. Saints season at 1-4 is pretty much done with at this point, sure a miraculous comeback could happen, but not likely. As much as we all love Vilma and Smith, we should understand this is probably their last season with the Saints. Did they get screwed, yes, but it is what it is.

Even if Payton was still coaching the team, this season is one that would have probably played out just like it is doing now. The NFL is all about parity and this time is the Saints turn to go down for a minute.

I totally expect this offseason to be somewhat of a rebuilding/retooling year. Payton should be able to comeback fully charged and focused. Sure, there are still games to be played in 2012, but now the focus should be towards 2013.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

So if this goes to the cout and Goddell/NFL would lose, could he still stay as the comissioner?

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Live people end up in body bags all the time.. Maybe you are a movie director and that is part of the script?


Then again dead people end up in body bags all of the time also when there was no intent to kill. That is called collateral damage... or in some less dramatic situations, natural causes.

That being said you need to be banned for a period of 8 games for telling someone you could tell someone else to kill them... And for attempting to put a forum member in a body bag... they could suffocate you know? <---- Sucks azz being on the receiving end of Goodell reasoning doesn't it?

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Yep and he will... Goodell = Meat shield for owners.

Here in the US, people do not lose their jobs due to bad decisions... Look at the last 23 years of our government.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

LOL at the whole "Dunta Robinson never speared any wide reciever" statement and then the Youtube clip. I don't know this Radical dude very well but I'd say he got schooled pretty bad, LOL.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

I am going to go with : What is a pole weapon consisting of a shaft, usually of wood, with a pointed head.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Answer me this:

Do you think Mike Nolan coaches his defense to hit offensive players as hard as they can? Or do you think he tells them "don't hit them as hard as you can because you may hurt someone"?


And about the Williams speech: a lot has been made about that speech, and how Williams instructed his players to tear Michael Crabtree's ACL, kill Frank Gore's head and the body will die, etc etc etc Ok.. well, Crabtree's ACL was fine and dandy after the game. So was Frank Gore's head. If the Saints actually wanted to tear Crabtree's ACL, they could've. Look how easily the Jets hurt Reggie and Cushing in back to back games, and they even said they were going to do it (dotting players, putting hot sauce on players).

Off course, then some things come out, like how the Chiefs have "kill the head and the body will die" painted on a wall. The very NFLN had a segment about the Chiefs that brought this to light. They also ran a promo for their Sounds of the Game show where a 49er coach is telling his linemen "knock the piss out of him" (hmm wonder what that means)... I remember Mike Tomlin screaming at his defense "tear his f*ing head off" during a game I was watching (a very specific body part too)... and it makes you wonder, what do other teams say during their defensive meetings? Wouldn't it be interesting to hear the audio of the other 31 teams during a defensive meeting? What do you think they say or do?

And you didn't say anything regardingt Mike Smith's comments and how he coaches his players to spear defenseless WRs. No comment? Are you agreeing Mike Smith coaches his players to intentionally injure players?

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Oh, oh.. I missed this before my last response. You have got to be kidding me.
Someone already posted the video. We know he was warned for one, then fined big for a second, then fined even more for a 3rd, in a sapn of 4-5 games.

It is pointless to talk to you any further.

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The NFL needs a leader that knows something about NFL football. If nothing else, this is painfully obvious.

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B&G 1
Radical 0

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8731d9a2.jpg

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

I have always said that for some one to be Commander in Chief, they must have been Commanded.

Only those that have been sent to their possible death truly understand the gravity of sending someone to their possible death.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Anyone else surmise that Vilma was allowed to keep 6 weeks salary so we would take a cap hit?

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

And in neither case, the word spearing didn't come up. In the Jackson hit, it was for hitting a "defenseless" receiver, and in the Maclin case, it was for a helmet to helmet hit and for hitting a defenseless receiver. Against Jackson, it wasn't even a helmet to helmet hit, nor did he makes initial contact with his helmet, so again, it isn't spearing.

And of course, Smith's quote is in reference to hitting "defenseless" receivers, not making helmet to helmet hits, which again only happened on one of those plays.

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You should just stop. Really... stop.

Helmet to helmet is not a spear? What did he lead with, his coccyx?

Unlike Atlanta fans apparently, we do not need Youtube to define football actions.