Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448327)

No, helmet to helmet is not a spear. I suggest you read the rules.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448331)

A spear is when a player makes initial contact with the crown of the helmet with his arms down. Didn't happen against Jackson, and the only reason it happened to Maclin is because he spun into it and caught it on the chin. I've watched every tackle Dunta has attempted as a Falcon, and when he gets his clean shots, his shoulder is always making first contact as opposed to his helmet.

If you want to play the condescending mud slinging game though, I can play along, and I promise you it will be you guys banning me rather than me leaving out of some sort of embarrassment.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448327)

No, helmet to helmet is not a spear. I suggest you read the rules.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper (Post 448341)

Now who's playing with semantics here.
Let me rephrase then:
Dunta Robinson was flagged right after each play for illegal hits on defenseless players, then was heavily fined for his illegal hits on defenseless players, and then your coach went to say "that is how we teach them".

Now, what is the reason hitting a defenseless is illegal? Because of the extreme chance to injure the player. So why would you intentionally hit a defenseless player knowing it is illegal? Obviously to injure him.

So, it logically follows that Coach Mike Smith teaches his players to take illegal hits to defenseless players to intentionally hurt them.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper (Post 448341)

Now who's playing with semantics here.
Let me rephrase then:
Dunta Robinson was flagged right after each play for illegal hits on defenseless players, then was heavily fined for his illegal hits on defenseless players, and then your coach went to say "that is how we teach them".

Now, what is the reason hitting a defenseless is illegal? Because of the extreme chance to injure the player. So why would you intentionally hit a defenseless player knowing it is illegal? Obviously to injure him.

So, it logically follows that Coach Mike Smith teaches his players to take illegal hits to defenseless players to intentionally hurt them.

Originally Posted by CharityMike (Post 448343)

See the problem is we are not the NFL. If Godell came out and said what you did, they would all be crying. But because he is hammering us, it is ok and must be the gospel. Also don't leave out the fact you are talking about someone from his team. It's like in my post above yours, go away falcon fan. Should have known better than to think anyone from that crap fan base would actually be able to see through bull****.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 448349)

Heck, no! I don't ever want to see Rad go away. I honestly feel it improves the quality of a board to have differing opinions and outside input. As long as the member remains within the rules he/she should be allowed.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper (Post 448222)

Answer me this:

Do you think Mike Nolan coaches his defense to hit offensive players as hard as they can? Or do you think he tells them "don't hit them as hard as you can because you may hurt someone"?

And about the Williams speech: a lot has been made about that speech, and how Williams instructed his players to tear Michael Crabtree's ACL, kill Frank Gore's head and the body will die, etc etc etc Ok.. well, Crabtree's ACL was fine and dandy after the game. So was Frank Gore's head. If the Saints actually wanted to tear Crabtree's ACL, they could've. Look how easily the Jets hurt Reggie and Cushing in back to back games, and they even said they were going to do it (dotting players, putting hot sauce on players).

Off course, then some things come out, like how the Chiefs have "kill the head and the body will die" painted on a wall. The very NFLN had a segment about the Chiefs that brought this to light. They also ran a promo for their Sounds of the Game show where a 49er coach is telling his linemen "knock the piss out of him" (hmm wonder what that means)... I remember Mike Tomlin screaming at his defense "tear his f*ing head off" during a game I was watching (a very specific body part too)... and it makes you wonder, what do other teams say during their defensive meetings? Wouldn't it be interesting to hear the audio of the other 31 teams during a defensive meeting? What do you think they say or do?

And you didn't say anything regardingt Mike Smith's comments and how he coaches his players to spear defenseless WRs. No comment? Are you agreeing Mike Smith coaches his players to intentionally injure players?

Originally Posted by CharityMike (Post 448334)

To expect to come on a Saints board and think you are going to actually change our opinions on the Bounty crap is just futile. You should have never put your 2 cents in it to begin with. You are the enemy. You are not part of our family. You are an outsider probably running back to your other forum laughing about us. So go back to sucking on Godells teet and leave us alone.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper (Post 448341)

Now who's playing with semantics here.
Let me rephrase then:
Dunta Robinson was flagged right after each play for illegal hits on defenseless players, then was heavily fined for his illegal hits on defenseless players, and then your coach went to say "that is how we teach them".

Now, what is the reason hitting a defenseless is illegal? Because of the extreme chance to injure the player. So why would you intentionally hit a defenseless player knowing it is illegal? Obviously to injure him.

So, it logically follows that Coach Mike Smith teaches his players to take illegal hits to defenseless players to intentionally hurt them.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448390)

Nothing wrong with telling your guys to hit offensive players as hard as you can.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448390)

Nothing wrong with telling your guys to hit offensive players as hard as you can. It becomes illegal when you offer up money to injure them, which is what they did. Smith never said he tells his guys to spear WRs.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448392)

Hitting a defenseless player is such a judgement call that it is simply impossible to try to coach your players to handle it. You need to separate illegal hits and hitting defenseless players. I don't see what's wrong with telling you players to hit a player as soon as he catches the football. Either way, this is completely besides the point, as there wasn't any money going to Robinson for his hits.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 448349)

Heck, no! I don't ever want to see Rad go away. I honestly feel it improves the quality of a board to have differing opinions and outside input. As long as the member remains within the rules he/she should be allowed.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448396)

I don't think people are going to look past the fact that I'm a Falcons fan when I post. I'm sure they all think I'm some Georgia hillbilly that's laughing maniacally and twiddling my fingers together as the whole thing unfolds, simply because it's happening to the Saints. My views wouldn't be any different if it was us, you guys, the Steelers, the Cardinals, etc.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper (Post 448395)

err... how can you separate illegal hits and hitting defenseless players when hitting a defenseless player is an illegal hit? If a tree falls in the forest...

BTW, how do you KNOW there was no money, or any reward, going Robinson's way?

Originally Posted by |Mitch| (Post 448393)

Maybe you need to read this article!

Falcons' Robinson fined $40k for illegal hit on Eagles' Maclin - NFL.com

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper (Post 448394)

Ok, let me get this straight:
Hitting another as hard as you can with legal hits, even if the other gets hurt, is good.
Hitting another as hard as you can with legal hits, even if the other gets hurt, but getting token reward if the other gets hurt, is intent to injure. I got it. Fantastic.

And yes, Mike Smith, when asked specifically about the cleary illegal hits Dunta Robinson landed on defenseless players with the intent to injure them (why else would you land an illegal hit on a defenseless player) he responded "that is how we teach them". He is clearly stating he coaches players to land illegal hits on defenseless players with the intent to injure them.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448405)

Separate helmet-to-helmet, launching, etc. with hitting a defenseless receiver. As I said before, defenseless receiver is a judgement call that I think is impossible to regulate. Contrary to what some of you guys seem to think, I don't agree with Goodell on everything.

Is your last question serious? Is this whole discussion just going to you deflecting away from the point and trying to say "well everyone else does it." If they do, there hasn't been any proof of it yet.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper (Post 448414)

Why this insistence to "separate" anything? An illegal hit is an illegal hit. Lowering your head and launching at the other player's head is an illegal hit. Certain hits are made illegal because of the high probability of injury to the player who gets hit. When you consciously lower your head and launch at a defenseless player's head with the crown of your helmet like the video clearly shows Dunta Robinson did, he's clearly trying to injure the other player. No if, ands, or buts about it. Flagged as it happened, heavily fined afterwards. Why is it so hard to see?

Oh, and I am dead serious about the last question. Don't take it from me, take it from ex-players like Jason Taylor, who stated all NFL teams have money pools.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448418)

Dunta never launched, and the helmet to helmet contact was only made on Maclin was do to him turning. Nice try. If the NFL finds the Falcons run a pay for injury program like the Saints then, then they'll get their punishment and I'm not going to twist myself into a knot trying to deflect, deny, and distort it.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448418)

Dunta never launched...

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448418)

Dunta never launched, and the helmet to helmet contact was only made on Maclin was do to him turning. Nice try. If the NFL finds the Falcons run a pay for injury program like the Saints then, then they'll get their punishment and I'm not going to twist myself into a knot trying to deflect, deny, and distort it.

Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 448435)

Alright everybody. It's time to stop. You can lead a horse to water, etc, etc. The one thing on display here is video evidence - clear as a bell video evidence - and this guy says it never happened.

LOL

This dude either doesn't get it or can't. Either way it's a waste of time.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448459)

Even Chris Collinsworth said in the video that he wasn't launching. Launching is when a player leaves both of his feet, and Dunta never did that. I suggest reading up on the rules before you spout off and make yourself look ignorant.

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 448454)

Lemme see if I've got this straight...You'll twist yourself into a knot trying to deny and distort the illegal cheap shots from Dunta even when it's in a video that we call all see,
but...

But you want us to believe that if the league accused your players of trying to injure players when there was no proof or even injuries, you'd just calmly accept that.

Yeah, I believe that. ;)

Originally Posted by |Mitch| (Post 448460)

It's funny, you're arguing something that the NFL deemed illegal and Dunta was and has been fined numerous times for... But keep quoting Chris Collinsworth and calling others ignorant :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448465)

Show me Dunta launching, or the NFL saying that he launched. I'll wait.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448459)

Even Chris Collinsworth said in the video that he wasn't launching. Launching is when a player leaves both of his feet, and Dunta never did that. I suggest reading up on the rules before you spout off and make yourself look ignorant.

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448464)

Twist myself into a knot?

1. Defenseless receiver rules are ridiculous. It simply isn't something a defender can adjust to, and it isn't something a coach can prepare for outside of telling his guys not to hit players when they catch the ball. Any coach who says he tells his guys not to hit receivers coming down with a ball or going for a catch should be fired on the spot.

2. Against Jackson, the initial contact was with his shoulder, there wasn't helmet to helmet contact, and he didn't launch himself while making the tackle. Jackson had both feet on the ground with the ball when the hit was made. The penalty was for hitting a defenseless receiver, nothing else. You want my opinion on that, please see #1.

3. Against Maclin, initial contact was made by Dunta with his helmet when Maclin turned and was clipped on the chin, otherwise it would have been initial contact with his shoulder. Is it dumb for Robinson to put his head down when he does this? Yes. However, he's done this numerous times against other ball carriers and it's always a shoulder tackle.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper (Post 448432)

he never launched? Come on, dude. The video is posted a few posts above.

I am not denying, twisting, distorting anything, but you keep going on with the pay-to-injure comments, and the "if there's money involved, then there's intent to injure" thing, which is not correct. As I stated posts ago, whether there is a token reward or not, football players are going to hit other football players as hard as they can, and this will result in injuries, whether there is an intent to injure or not; that is the nature of the game. There is no hitting harder because you can get a token reward afterwards. A legal hit is not made an illegal hit because you can get a token reward afterwards.

On the other hand, when a player keeps on delivering vicious illegal hits which are flagged on the spot then heavily fined, with the HC stating that's what he teaches, one can easily argue actual intent to injure is present.

As for the money pools, they have been around football since forever. Known fact, corroborated by a large number of high-profile ex-players (current players are not going to open their mouths, obviously), just about all teams in the NFL have one/had one. Yes, they are against the rules, and no one around here is denying the money pool existed, or would have any issue with it being punished, had they been punished for what they are, money pools, and not some nefarious hitman contract fund like Goodell made it out to be.

Originally Posted by |Mitch| (Post 448466)

Did you not watch the video or read the article? You're more ignorant than I first thought!

Originally Posted by Radical (Post 448471)

Not once did Dunta leave both his feet while making either tackle. Do you want me to draw you a picture?

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 448467)

You're saying those hits were legal and you think HE looks ignorant?

That's funny.