Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

You guys seem to care, because I keep being told he was launching, even though anyone who knows what launching is and has functional vision knows that he didn't.

The game? I'm talking about from 09 through 11.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

That's the only 2 players we knocked out from '09 to now, you need to read and comprehend full posts...

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

So you're telling me that those are the only two players from 2009 to 2011 who went down with an injury while playing against the NO defense. I don't even need to do the research to know that's bogus.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Do some research, that's the only two players who were knocked out of a game due to the Saints.

If you find otherwise, then come back with your "bogus" comment. Until then, you have no idea what you are talking about!

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Right off the bat I found Stephen Neal, OG for the Patriots injured against you guys in 2009. Regardless though, it doesn't change anything, the system was still in place.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

What was his injury? :rolleyes: Because you know there was "loads" of bounties on O-Linemen...

Now go back to the Ultimate Smacktalk you Falcon troll

Looked it up, Stephen Neal, reinjured his shoulder which he was on the PUP list in '08 for... Don't see how that would have anything to do with the Saints "wrong-doing"

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Money for getting players off the field man. Were they treating that shoulder like Crabtree's outside ACL. Who knows? Money was going out though... Greg might have covered that one too. Here we are though.

PS. I'll go away as soon as the guy who invited me here, Asylum Guido, wants me to leave, I'm banned, or I get bored.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Again, you really need to step away from the analogies. You are doing them wrong. If you put up money to kill someone, well, killing someone is illegal in on itself. Hitting someone as hard as you can in football within the established rules to hit someone, not illegal.

And I am not going to tell you that no one got hurt playing against the Saints. That really is just a stupid statement on your part.

And no one is denying that the token rewards are illegal under the CBA. Any payment not established within the player's contract with his team goes against the CBA, being $1, $10, $100, $1000. No one is arguing against that.

The thing is, those illegal payments, according to the CBA, are salary cap violations, not punishable with suspensions. So enter Goodell with his "conduct detrimental" and his "intent to injure". And again, I have to ask, how can you determine intent to injure, when you are already allowed to hit someone as hard as you possibly can within an established set of rules? Again, the outcome and consequences of legal play are the same, whether there is a reward for any particular outcome or consequence, or not.

And that is the part that you don't get, or you refuse to acknowledge. If the case was Saints players were being flagged for vicious illegal hits and fined huge amounts of money (you know, like Dunta), or were declaring they were going to put some hot sauce on this guy or dot this other guy and both end up hurt after illegal hits (you know, like the Jets these past 2 weeks), you could make a case that they intended to injure someone. BUT, when you don't see vicious illegal hits, when you don't see huge amounts of fines being levied against the players because of vicious illegal hits, when you look at the film and all you see is the very same hits you see during every game every Sunday (or Monday, or Thursday) how can you honestly determine there is intent to injure?

It is very simple, really. If you are already legally hitting someone l as hard as you can, you know doing so can result in bodily harm to the person you are hitting, any reasonable person would deduct that; well, is there intent to injure? Is a reward going to make you hit harder? You are already legally hitting as hard as you can...

If you are punishing the reward/payment, ok. Do so under the CBA guidelines.
If you are punishing the intent to injure, show me the intent to injure. And you cannot show me intent to injure without a consistent pattern of illegal hits; you cannot show me intent to injure when the hits you see me make are the very same hits you see every Sunday on every other game. You need to show me Ndamukong Suh grabbing someone's head and smashing it on the ground then stomping on that someone when he's still on the ground. You need to show me Albert Haynesworth stumping Gurode's helmetless head while he's on the ground. you need to show me Jared Allen diving into Matt Schaub's knee from behind well after Schaub had thrown the ball 5 seconds before. And of course, you need to show me Dunta Robinson hitting defenseless receivers. THEN, I will tell you yes, the Saints went out there with the intent to injure someone.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Too bad there's no repercussion for when we got bored of your tired argument.

Please come back after you choke in the playoffs - A G A I N

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Well, we've already shown you the video.

Here are articles from CBS Sports and ESPN referencing launching

NFL fines Dunta Robinson $40K for Maclin hit - CBSSports.com
NFL fines Dunta Robinson of Atlanta Falcons $40K for hit on Jeremy Maclin - ESPN

Here's an article from the LA times in which Hall of Fame Safety Ronny Lott said he was bothered by the way Robinson used the top of his helmet.

Sam Farmer on the NFL: Atlanta's Dunta Robinson takes a hit to the wallet - Los Angeles Times

In this article D. Orlando Ledbetter, long time Falcons beat writer, described the hit this way.

"With 6:12 left in the third quarter of Sunday night's game, Robinson leveled Maclin by lowering his head and leading with his helmet. Robinson also launched with both feet when leaving the ground."

Atlanta Falcons team report: Dunta Robinson fined $40K - NFL - Sporting News

Not only did he say "launched" he specifically said "with both feet when leaving the ground"

Here's a USA Today poll that shows 59% of respondents thought the $40k fine was not enough and that Robinson should have been suspended as well.

Vote: After seeking 'kill shot' was fine to Falcons' Robinson warranted?

That's just the mainstream press. Many of the bloggers were much harsher.

Hope that helps.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Radical, you're doing your own website harm as you type.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Prove intent to injure... offering money up for injuring other players?

And since you've obviously been stricken blind, deaf, and possibly retarded, I'll give you a picture.

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/Je...binson_Hit.jpg

"...he almost launched his way into this one. He didn't leave the second foot so he won't be get hit for that..." - Chris Collinsworth

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/...ntaMaclin1.jpg

Launching: When a player leaves both feet before contact to spring forward and upward into an opponent and deliver a blow with any part of his helmet. - NFL.com

Do I need to keep posting pictures, or are we going to continue to argue reality here?

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Atlanta Falcons Talk - Talk About The Falcons & So Much More

:D

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

And attempted murder isn't murder, but it's still illegal. We know the organization and players wanted to injure players, otherwise people wouldn't be offering money to do it. Lack of injuries doesn't disprove anything.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

YAWWWWWWN.....

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

I know, right? It's amazing how caught up in this some people are.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Radical, I think people are just bored and we're entertained to have company! lol
Thanks for being a sport.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

A pleasure. You should drop by sometime, preferably after the Falcons beat the Saints in a few weeks. Most of us are nice... until you bring up that bounty thing. Guido got a few peeps all riled up over that mess.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Just know that a Payton-less Saints team is your only hope.

Since coming to New Orleans he has DOMINATED the Falcons and probably shaved 5 years off Mike Smith's life expectancy.

And you hate him for that.

Look dude. Don't act like your guys are angels and ours are monsters. Its just not true. Heck wasn't it your offensive line that recently was called the dirtiest line in the NFL?

I'll bet if you took a poll that the majority of the players would support the Saints/

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Robinson is a repeat offender. That in itself proves intent. OR he's the dumbest mofo on earth.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

I agree on 1. Indifferent on 2.

#3 however.... "otherwise" has no place in this... My aunt didn't have balls, otherwise she would have been my uncle.

Have you played much of the game? At no level is dropping your head before a tackle coached, condoned, or legal. When you say he has done it numerous times, your are basically saying he has attempted to spear numerous times.

Dropping your head before contact is a recipe for spinal injury, broken neck, missing a tackle because you took your eyes off the ball carrier. Dropping the head is using the helmet as a weapon, regardless of where it strikes or if the pads hit first. Its spearing and there is no way around that.

Argue this point: I will bet you he doesn't drop his head in practice when he tackles.... Because he has a different intent in practice than he does in a game. If he dropped his head in practice for a tackle someone would whip his ass.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

It is a Bye week.. what else are we going to talk about?

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

No brother.... The guy that trys to defend the "dumbest mofo on earth" steals the crown.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

So much for "improving the quality of the website." This thread is now all kinds of epic fail.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Here is where you are wrong. The Saints players were not offering money for injuring other players. They were offering money for big plays. If a player got hurt in the process it was not the intent, but simply part of the game. Players get hurt every game on exactly the same type of plays.

The Saints were initially accused of intentionally targeting specific players for injury. They have all denied that and no proof has ever been presented that this ever occurred.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Yes, the token rewards are against the rules and should have been punished as salary cap violations which can only be administered through fines, not suspensions. And you keep stating they were paying the players to cause injury. If that was true then there would be intent. That wasn't what was going on according to all involved. They were getting rewarded for clean legal hits that caused big plays.

By the way, were you aware that a crucial part of the program involved players ONLY be eligible for the reward if the play was legal, did not result in a penalty AND the Saints won the game? If the play was illegal or resulted in a penalty they would receive a fine instead.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

No. A few of them riled themselves up over this. I just agreed to give them a little hand.

:D

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Jesus.. you kidding right?
Attempted murder is illegal.
Murder is illegal.
Hitting someone as hard as you can in a football game within the established rules and probably causing an injury is NOT ILLEGAL. That's the freaking game of football.

As for lack of injuries not disproving anything, how can you pay money for injuring someone, if no one gets injured?

But, it is my fault. I keep on typing and typing, and all I get back is "We know the organization and players wanted to injure players, otherwise people wouldn't be offering money to do it". I should have known better.

You just keep on posting pictures of Dunta Robinson's illegal hits and keep telling us how they aren't illegal.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Bourbon St. brick wall .....! LoL ....!

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Now you understand what I have put up with on the AFT board over these last seven months. Heck, Radical is one of the more rational among them.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Given the sample, that isn't exactly what one would call an "endorsement" of that site.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

I've seem him do the exact move in practice, albeit rarely. It is poor form and dumb on his part, but when he connects cleanly it's always a shoulder tackle. I wouldn't be arguing this if I hadn't seen Dunta do that exact move many times to different ball carriers and it always result in a shoulder tackle.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Were the Saints not paying for "cart-offs?" If you're putting up money for injuries, that's showing intent, and just because they may not have succeeded in causing injuries, doesn't mean they cannot be punished for displaying intent to do so.

Never said that Dunta's hits weren't illegal, but it is a fact that he did not launch. Outside of clipping Maclin's chin, both hits were illegal because he was called for hitting a defenseless receiver, which I've already explained that I think it's a BS rule that can't be effectively coached.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Where have you seen any evidence where the Saints were being paid for cart-offs?

Seems to me you take what ESPN says as the gospel... :rolleyes:

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

"Cartoff" was a term used by Gregg Williams to mean a player that missed a play because of a hard legal hit. This has been supported by Vitt and several other players.

Once again, open your totally closed mind and realize that they were not putting up money for injuries. They were putting up money as a part of the overall pay for performance plan, that reward for large hits that could cause a player to miss a play or even the rest of the game. It specifically stated that it had to be a legal hit (upon review from the league) and not result in a penalty by that player or any other on the same play. It also was dependent upon them winning the game.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Well Mitch says that cart-off was never used, but your very post says it. "Large hit that caused a player to miss a play or even the rest of thee game." That's paying for injuring other players, hence the punishments.

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Roger? Is that you?

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/ Picard facepalm

Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**
 

Oh... you watch the practices now... Must be an insider.:hallucinate: