A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better.

MatthewT · 10-16-2012, 09:08 AM

In a perfect world, the Saints would use 4 RBs on game day. Thomas is obviously entrenched as the starter, along with Sproles. Rotate Ingram with Thomas, and use Ivory on the short stuff, the roll Ingram is currently being used in. That to me makes sense, but until Ivory holds on to the ball that will probably not happen. I mean we all know Ivory can get those 3rd and 1 or 2 plays all day long, but factor in the probability of a fumble and it washes that out.

SapperSaint · 10-16-2012, 10:48 AM

Well, I have eaten my fair share of crow de reaux.

I really think we need to offer Ingram up from trade. I know the front office wants him to work out, I still want him to work out, but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards, folks.

Can someone pass me the the Slap ya Mama? This taste a little bland.

Rugby Saint II · 10-16-2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Radical

If you guys don't want Ivory, once again, send him to the Falcons.

Do ya'll have any draft picks left after the Julio Jones trade?
I don't think we need any of your players......we got the only one we wanted. But, thanks for the offer.

Radical · 10-16-2012, 02:49 PM

PFF had this to say about him earlier in the year when reviewing all teams who see who needed more snaps.

Chris Ivory: +5.2 from 156 snaps

The problem for Ivory is there are three other running backs who could probably handle more snaps. It’s a shame because he has proved over the past two years he can pick up yards, with his 4.4 yards per carry being greatly assisted by forcing 14 missed tackles on his 101 attempts. Ivory may need to move elsewhere to see snaps, but at the very least, he looks like an excellent complement to a feature back at the RB spot.

Meanwhile, they have more or less hammered home that Ingram is disappointment embodied.

cars4dylan · 10-16-2012, 04:12 PM

Don't forget Loomis has been out since the beginning of the season. These thoughts might be brewing with him right now.

My only defense for Ingram is that how is he supposed to do anything when he's only used in obvious run downs with everyone and their uncle stacked in the box? He's not better than Pierre that's for sure at making things happen and breaking tackles but I think if given some more consistent carries he'd get something going but it hard to sprint in from the sideline every 10th play and be effective.

When Ingram or Sproles comes in you know what play is going to be called before they break the huddle, draw up the middle or a screen (respectively). A little too easy for the MLB to key in on what's going on in those scenarios, and that's Carmichael's fault. He's just not as inventive a play caller as Payton is, plain and simple.

I'd like to see what Cadet could do in the return game and save Sproles some hits coming out of the endzone on kickoffs.

frankeefrank · 10-16-2012, 05:40 PM

Didn't Deuce primarily play on run downs?
Don't most good backs find a way to get yards on "run downs"
What's being lost is we're still a good offense, Ingram just adds nothing to it.

Budsdrinker · 10-17-2012, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by frankeefrank

Didn't Deuce primarily play on run downs?
Don't most good backs find a way to get yards on "run downs"
What's being lost is we're still a good offense, Ingram just adds nothing to it.

Nope Deuce played on all downs but he was bigger and stronger than Ingram so even when they knew he was running (Eagles playoff game) they couldn't stop him. In fact the knee injury that basically ended Deuce's career was a high screen pass from Drew against the Titans. He wasn't the same after that.

Speedy Ron · 10-17-2012, 04:49 PM

neither

Rell&Gold · 10-17-2012, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

Things will start to change with Ingram. We're starting to use him more on passing downs which will make defenses drop the safety back in coverage instead of 8 men in the box. Nobody can run effectively with 8 men in the box. And every report I hear this year coming out of practices is that Ivory is fumbling too much during practice, if he can't hold on to the ball in practice he damn sure can't be trusted during a game.

And when was the last time you heard of Ivory fumbling?

Danno · 10-17-2012, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

And when was the last time you heard of Ivory fumbling?

The last time Mike D spoke about him practicing, about 2 weeks ago.

10-16-2012, 09:08 AM	#21
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. In a perfect world, the Saints would use 4 RBs on game day. Thomas is obviously entrenched as the starter, along with Sproles. Rotate Ingram with Thomas, and use Ivory on the short stuff, the roll Ingram is currently being used in. That to me makes sense, but until Ivory holds on to the ball that will probably not happen. I mean we all know Ivory can get those 3rd and 1 or 2 plays all day long, but factor in the probability of a fumble and it washes that out.

10-16-2012, 10:48 AM	#22
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. Well, I have eaten my fair share of crow de reaux. I really think we need to offer Ingram up from trade. I know the front office wants him to work out, I still want him to work out, but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards, folks. Can someone pass me the the Slap ya Mama? This taste a little bland.

10-16-2012, 02:38 PM	#23
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. Originally Posted by Radical If you guys don't want Ivory, once again, send him to the Falcons. Do ya'll have any draft picks left after the Julio Jones trade? I don't think we need any of your players......we got the only one we wanted. But, thanks for the offer. Danno and SaintsBro like this.

10-16-2012, 02:49 PM	#24
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. PFF had this to say about him earlier in the year when reviewing all teams who see who needed more snaps. Chris Ivory: +5.2 from 156 snaps The problem for Ivory is there are three other running backs who could probably handle more snaps. It’s a shame because he has proved over the past two years he can pick up yards, with his 4.4 yards per carry being greatly assisted by forcing 14 missed tackles on his 101 attempts. Ivory may need to move elsewhere to see snaps, but at the very least, he looks like an excellent complement to a feature back at the RB spot. Meanwhile, they have more or less hammered home that Ingram is disappointment embodied.
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148

10-16-2012, 04:12 PM	#25
cars4dylan 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 106	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. Don't forget Loomis has been out since the beginning of the season. These thoughts might be brewing with him right now. My only defense for Ingram is that how is he supposed to do anything when he's only used in obvious run downs with everyone and their uncle stacked in the box? He's not better than Pierre that's for sure at making things happen and breaking tackles but I think if given some more consistent carries he'd get something going but it hard to sprint in from the sideline every 10th play and be effective. When Ingram or Sproles comes in you know what play is going to be called before they break the huddle, draw up the middle or a screen (respectively). A little too easy for the MLB to key in on what's going on in those scenarios, and that's Carmichael's fault. He's just not as inventive a play caller as Payton is, plain and simple. I'd like to see what Cadet could do in the return game and save Sproles some hits coming out of the endzone on kickoffs.
cars4dylan 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 106

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10-16-2012, 05:40 PM	#26
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. Didn't Deuce primarily play on run downs? Don't most good backs find a way to get yards on "run downs" What's being lost is we're still a good offense, Ingram just adds nothing to it. Rell&Gold likes this.
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775

10-17-2012, 03:24 PM	#27
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. Originally Posted by frankeefrank Didn't Deuce primarily play on run downs? Don't most good backs find a way to get yards on "run downs" What's being lost is we're still a good offense, Ingram just adds nothing to it. Nope Deuce played on all downs but he was bigger and stronger than Ingram so even when they knew he was running (Eagles playoff game) they couldn't stop him. In fact the knee injury that basically ended Deuce's career was a high screen pass from Drew against the Titans. He wasn't the same after that.

10-17-2012, 04:49 PM	#28
Speedy Ron I'm an A hole Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Metry Posts: 1,173	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. neither

10-17-2012, 06:26 PM	#29
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. Originally Posted by Budsdrinker Things will start to change with Ingram. We're starting to use him more on passing downs which will make defenses drop the safety back in coverage instead of 8 men in the box. Nobody can run effectively with 8 men in the box. And every report I hear this year coming out of practices is that Ivory is fumbling too much during practice, if he can't hold on to the ball in practice he damn sure can't be trusted during a game. And when was the last time you heard of Ivory fumbling?

10-17-2012, 06:29 PM	#30
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: A statistical look at Saints running backs Chris Ivory and Mark Ingram to try and determine once and for all which one is actually better. Originally Posted by Rell&Gold And when was the last time you heard of Ivory fumbling? The last time Mike D spoke about him practicing, about 2 weeks ago.

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