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on paper this defense should not be sucking eggs as bad as they are. but they leave a lot to be desired. the point i like is the time the defense stays on the field. the saints are still looking for a ground game to eat up the clock in the second half. been looking for that phase of the offense for years. but that point does not explain the poor play in the first half |
Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
Jenkins has pretty much been a disaster at Safety; with his size, is it not to late to do a reclamation and move him to either strong safety or right cornerback and letting him play the slot in nickel/dime packages?
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And Akiem Hicks, if Ellis is not going to be signed again as a FA, wouldn't it be prudent to allow him more time to develop?
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It so embarrassing that the talking head shows are saying to take the QB facing the Saints each and everyweek...
Where's the heart?!? |
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This is HISTORICALLY BAD...
Whether you're in Harper's, Ellis', Smith's, Shanle's, Robinson's, Jenkins' Camp(s) or not, we all can agree this is the worst defense we've ever seen... Can Darren Sharper at least walk? |
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I'd imagine he hasn't gotten any better. |
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Wondering if we'll see more rotation of the defensive line with the "altitude factor"?!?
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Hicks is really lookin lively on the line...
I know he got smashed on the double team, but he's really battling and starting to be disruptive... |
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This is why I laugh why wait till now to run the ball...SMDH we need a miracle
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We look like we are back at square one
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I did not pick a point there to point on.
The defense is so bad because they simply are not interested in trying. Lazy. Get a NFL pay and call it a day. The youth and talent is there. Attitude is why bother. Also, there is no boss. No coach. No motivation. No self-motivation. No motivation and fear from the boss, Sean Payton. No reason. Just get out there and run a bit. Reach out a had to tackle the opponent. |
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I don't know why their defense is so bad.
It is so bad it just doesn't make any sense. It seems like professional players could accidentally do better. |
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Heads MUST roll Monday morning...
Any reason for why Broderick Bunkley was inactive?!? |
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cause we only have like 5 at most talented players on d?
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Mickey Loomis is the GM of the team. The GM's job is not only to be an accountant, but, also the GM's job is to be the football brains and talent eval brains. Your GM is supposed to build your roster.
The Falcons brought Dmitroff in as GM back in 2007. His job was NOT to be "just and accountant" like Loomis, but also to be the talent evaluator. Point is this: If Benson has Loomis as GM ONLY to be a bean counter, then, the Front Office is built wrong and Loomis has the wrong job. The GM needs to be a FOOTBALL MAN who knows player personnel and knows how to build a roster. Since LOOMIS is NOT a football man, he should NOT be GM. The Saints have a habit of putting non football people in important football jobs. I remember when the Saints hired an ex astronaut to be GM back in the 60s. |
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Loomis is the GM. In your model NFL front office, your GM is you football player personnel guru who knows how to build a roster. If the Saints roster sucks on D (and it does suck) that means that the FO is not getting the job done. That means LOOMIS is not getting the job done. People say "well Loomis is not a football guy, he's just an accountant". Well, Benson needs to hire a football guy to be GM. Loomis is in the wrong job. |
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What really burns my ass though is how I see 3-4 players on defense in the general area where the only WR is, the WR catches the ball, he catches it because the 3-4 players on defense in that area really doing nothing but looking at whats in front of them, is about 10 yards off the WR. Looks to me like most of the secondary is reading the QB and paying more attention to him than they are to the WR/TEs out there, RBs to. You see this wide open guy, but you see no real urgency for the defenders to close the gap with them, they stay so far back.........why kind of defense is this? Beats the hell out of me. Thats been a consistent on going theme all season in these games. The defense looks so damn confused its beyond pathetic. |
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I said this after like the second year of this tenure. Sure Loomis has lucked out with nice OL picks colston, and Brees. Our Ill not name our MLB that was rejected by the Jets and seems to have been replaced at the moment . Thing is, we had absolutely nothing to lose with Brees and Vilma. Amirite? Would my taking a chance with Brees after Payton as my HC wasnt fond at all with AB seem like genius? Brees was like the only vet with semi- credentials available.
I didnt want Bush and its well documented. I ranted and raved about our OL. I was bitter about refusing the deal the jets offered us with those picks that garnered Mangold and D Brick. I figured it was best to start with an OL instead of investing all into Bush. bush couldnt run behind our OL at its current state. What was my point? Why am I here? Who are you people? |
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I disagree with completely calling Loomis and bean counter and blaming all this on him.
Loomis and Sean Payton make the personnel decisions. They both helped build one of the best most BALL HOG defenses in the history of the the NFL that marched us to the Superbowl. That defense has been dismantled piece by piece over 2 seasons. Don't believe me, compare rosters from 2009 and 2012. You'll also find several of our former players starting elsewhere. Where I disapprove with on Loomis and Payton is I completely disagreed with the Ingram pick. I like Ingram but we needed those picks to further re-stock this defense. And that's where Loomis needs to step up - finding balance in personnel decisions and not allowing Sean Payton to have ONLY offensive players to his hearts content. The Saints are STILL over stocked in offensive talent and runningbacks. So now we're playing payers on defense that were backups, some not with the team, some brought in from elsewhere to bring help. Loomis and Payton DO need to rebuild this defense, but seriously our defense has been picked apart from 2009 and our adjustments and patch work has not worked out. |
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Maybe we should hire the astronaut back!
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The move by Benson of Loomis into offices for the Hornets was telling...
Some suggested it was a way for Benson to continue to keep Loomis, a loyal employee, on the payroll during the GoodellGate Suspension... I believe he's Benson's point man on salaries, his bean counter, and Loomis' job is to make sure the team's coaches have the salary cap flexibility to make roster moves as necessary... I don't believe Loomis is a "football man" when it comes to talent evaluation nor is that where his talent or assignment lies... Coach Payton has been looking for a Defensive Complement to himself so he doesn't have to be burdened with the defense... However, changes have to be made as this defense is historically futile; and those changes really start with organization changes that must reflect a thoughtful commitment to said change... |
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Saints Defensive Salaries - (Name, Pos, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
Sedrick Ellis DT 5,816,000 UFA Brodrick Bunkley DT 700,000 3,700,000 4,400,000 4,400,000 4,400,000 Akiem Hicks DT 390,000 480,000 570,000 660,000 UFA Tyrunn Walker DT 390,000 480,000 570,000 RFA Tom Johnson DT 465,000 555,000 RFA Will Smith DE 825,000 9,000,000 10,400,000*UFA Cameron Jordan DE 726,427 1,077,855 1,429,282 UFA Junior Galette DE 490,000 RFA Turk McBride DE 800,000 UFA Martez Wilson E/LB 465,000 555,000 645,000 UFA Curtis Lofton LB 700,000 1,100,000 1,000,000 2,400,000 5,400,000 Jonathan Vilma LB 1,600,000 4,800,000 UFA David Hawthorne LB 700,000 1,000,000 1,000,000 2,000,000 4,000,000 Scott Shanle LB 1,050,000 UFA Will Herring LB 1,300,000 1,500,000 UFA Jonathan Casillas LB 1,260,000 UFA Ron Anderson LB 390,000 480,000 570,000 RFA Jabari Greer CB 2,400,000 3,600,000 4,000,000 4,200,000 UFA Patrick Robinson CB 540,000 725,000 872,500 UFA Johnny Patrick CB 465,000 555,000 645,000 UFA Elbert Mack CB 700,000 UFA Corey White at DB 390,000 480,000 570,000 660,000 UFA Nick Hixon CB 390,000 RFA Malcolm Jenkins DB 1,092,000 2,264,000 UFA Roman Harper SS 4,500,000 5,250,000 6,000,000 UFA Isa Abdul-Quddus DB 465,000 555,000 RFA Rafael Bush DB 465,000 RFA |
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Why are they so bad? Man, where do you start?
From the list, I'd have to say lack of talent. It just seems we have 11 mediocre players, no real "positive" stand-out at any position. |
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[QUOTE=jeanpierre;452829]Saints Defensive Salaries - (Name, Pos, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
Sedrick Ellis DT kick to the curb Brodrick Bunkley DT Akiem Hicks DT Tyrunn Walker DT Tom Johnson DT kick to the curb Will Smith DE kick to the curb Cameron Jordan DE Junior Galette DE Turk McBride DE kick to the curb Martez Wilson E/LB Curtis Lofton LB Jonathan Vilma LB kick to the curb David Hawthorne LB Scott Shanle LB kick to the curb Will Herring LB kick to the curb Jonathan Casillas LB kick to the curb Ron Anderson LB WHO? Jabari Greer CB Patrick Robinson CB Johnny Patrick CB Elbert Mack CB Corey White DB Nick Hixon CB Malcolm Jenkins DB kick to the curb Roman Harper SS Isa Abdul-Quddus DB Rafael Bush DB |
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Thats a head scratcher there Mike.... You kept Robinson/White/Patrick?
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What really hurt was when I watched the NFL.com highlights clip this morning and at one point, about a third of the way through the clip, the Denver player, Thomas makes a big gain and the analyst just says, "is the Saints cornerback even trying"!!!!! Man, that just about sums it up!!!!
We are ranked dead last on Defence, its just heartbreaking to watch! If only we could bring back the Dome Patrol!!!! Drew was trying his best IMO but he must be tempted to start thinking about that fact that as soon as he passes for a score he just knows the opposition are going to score on their next series, almost every time. That must be a bitter pill to swallow! Lets hope we can get a better performance from the team in the next two home games!!!!! |
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The big plays allowed by the safeties are a big part of the problem; that said...
When building/rebuilding a defense, it does start at the line of scrimmage... Now is Hicks a Starter, Rotation, or Role Player? Let's get him even more pt and find out... |
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I found the title of this article painfully laughable...
Saints defensive brain trust knows it has work to do | Shreveporttimes | shreveporttimes.com "...according to STATS LLC New Orleans is the first team to give up 400 or more yards in seven consecutive games since 1950." |
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How many big plays are you talking about? One, two? |
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Plainly?
Lack of. Period |
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At What Age Do Girls Get Their Periods? How Long Does Menstruation Last? |
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So, are you just listing base salaries? Because some of those cats are making a lot more when you add in the miscellaneous bonuses they receive also. For example, Will Smith: 2012, $5.36M; 2013, $14.54M; and 2014, $13.94M. Those are the type of contracts that are making the re-tooling of the defensive personnel very difficult, and it was Loomis himself who re-negotiated and restructured Smith's contract this offseason. That ended up being a bad decision as the Saints had plenty of cap space, so Smith's old contract would've fit under the salary cap without any problems, and he wouldn't have gotten some of the pay increases that were included in the restructured contract, and the 2014 season would've stayed as an optional year. |
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Have you not seen Harper and Jenkins getting simply beat these past years? Just watch the last two playoff losses where the opposition scores. |
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I've got to say that Harper has surprised me with some very good coverage on numerous passing plays and in multiple games, also he had that INT against the Bucs which was taken away by the refs.
Naturally, I'd like them to have a safety like the '09 Sharper on their roster, but those type of players are unfortunately few and far between. The thing that frustrates about Jenkins is that he plays very slow - never mind the Jackson caught-from-behind play - and that he seems to whiff on more tackles than anyone in the secondary. |
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I'll promise you this - if Steve Spagnuolo survives this season, Roman Harper won't be the starting strong safety and Malcolm Jenkins will either be at another position or probably gone as well...
And that's not to say it's on JUST the safeties... The Saints Pass Rush it a total embarrassment; as I said, old men at a church buffet have a better push than these millionaire, professional defensive linemen... And guessing who'll be the linebackers each week would be the basis of ESPN's version of "To Tell the Truth" where continuity among linebackers is almost as important as continuity along an offensive line... |
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A journeyman safety in one game has outperformed both our safeties' seasons...
Stevie Brown takes NFC defensive player of the week | ProFootballTalk |
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The surprise comes more from the warped perception one easily gets from reading posts here about how Harper can't cover anybody in the backfield, while in fact, Danno has posted stats in the past that show that Harper is in fact quite good in coverage against opposing TEs. I'm not saying that he has been a superstar in the backfield, just that I've been pleasantly surprised by him at times - but let down at other times. |
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