Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

And I've posted VIDEO links showing both Harper and Jenkins getting burned...

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Yeah, and Greer, Robinson, Porter never get burned?

Harper is a SS, not a CB.

You have an agenda. Every Harper mistake (and there are very few) you magnify, while ignoring the numerous mistakes everyone else makes on this defense. Its either an intentional effort to justify your weak criticisms or you simply don't know much about football.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

I don't really know why the defense sucks as bad as it does.

Spags' defense is either; it's just not working, too difficult for our players to pick up (Which means we have some dumb players) or that Spags simply isn't a good coach.

It could be the fact that they are on the field waayyyy too much. 3 and outs/quick scoring drives by the offense/I don't know. If these guys are on the field more than the offense, they are going to get gased and will be totally burned out by the 3rd quarter.

I think the coaching staff is putting too much on Drew and staying pass happy for the entire game. If you don't run the ball and control the clock some what; your chances of winning deminish.

All I can tell you is, is after watching them I want to vomit.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

IMO Harper has made some improvements this year. I have never been high on him but I have noticed he has gotten better. Jenkins on the other hand needs to be kicked to the curb! He has not gotten any better. He is in the top 5 in the NFL in missed tackles.

IMO if you wanna bash a safety, you are bashing the wrong one this year.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Lets be fair to all of the players... Who in the hell in our defensive backfield is worse or better than the others?

They all get burned, miss tackles, out of place, quit on plays.. There is no bright shiny star in the entire stable.... Which is why we are where we are.

Are we debating who is the sh1ttiest of the sh1ty?

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

:doh: :bang:

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Is it bad because it sucks, or does it suck because it's bad?


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...gBj3ErcL6eWGNd

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

No Agenda. I'm watching the Saints @ Seahawks playoff game and that's not Roman Harper getting burned by their TE for multiple touchdowns?!?

The Saints @ Packers last season, I posted and noted the touchdowns scored on Harper...

And I've pointed out the poor production of the front four especially with the money and investment placed there?!?

When Sam Bradford can catch Roman Harper after Harper had a jump on him for what should have been a coast to coast touchdown, then Roman Harper, you, point of fact, suck; not to mention that video shows Harper had to suck down a bottle of O2...

I've posted the video of him getting run over in the Packers game, getting torched in games against Bears, Seahawks, etc and somehow, someway some people who think they know football still drink their own coolaid...

As topics of discussion come up, and criticism of the defense is discussed, Harper inability in coverage is a major liability which must be addressed along with the lack of a front four push, pi$$-poor wussy tackling from our linebackers, and turnstyle coverage in the secondary...

If I'm less critical of the younger players, it's because I allow a couple of years of development which the discussed Drew Brees Window of opportunity doesn't allow...

Roman Harper has made the case for his suckage week after weak week; it's no agenda, it's his suckage...

Again, video evidence, multiple, multiple times has been shown on multiple threads and still some drink Harper's coolaid...

The only disappointment I've ever found with B&G is some users' inability to discuss passionately without making the discussion personal; I try to decline that course as those people may not have had a decent upbringing...

Oh, and have a nice day:bng:

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

You do realize we are in 2012 right? Why are you basing your argument on just prior years and not even taking into consideration this year? Everything you have said so far has been about past seasons.

Has he been terrible in coverage in the past? Absolutely!! But I also believe that had a lot to do with GW.

The point is, THIS year he has improved. His mistakes are not as glaring as another safety on this team. Why are you neglecting to say anything about Jenkins? He is this years version of your past version of Harper.

The topic of the thread is "Why is this defense so bad". So by your logic, it's so bad because Harper sucked in coverage in 2010 and 2011?? C'mon man.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Harper is the most glaring weakness for opposing offenses...

Now, in regards to Jenkins, let me say that you'll find I'm on the record here as saying...

I don't like drafting Ohio State Players with the exception of certain linebackers...

He is misassigned at Free Safety and is overwhelmed, despite a Wonderlic of 23 which is actuallly pretty good for a safety...

He has not played as long as Harper, therefore, he hasn't had as many opportunities to be toasted as Harper has, so there have been fewer posts...

And I would continue to say, that the Safety Play for the Saints has been historically embarrassing these past two-three seasons...

That said, I would offer this solution...

If we are to salvage what we have, move to Jenkins to Strong Safety where he would be better suited as a complimentary player allowed to come up and make plays with his size...

The money that is being overspent on Harper would be used for a quality impact free agent, preferably on the defensive line or free safety...

Either way this defense, despite what I'm sure is Spagnulo's best effort, is not improving...

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

But how can you do that when Harper is still owed $6M is guaranteed money?

His cap hit for 2013 will be $7.1M, so after doing the math - there's no "quality impact player" than can be had for the savings made by cutting him.

After next season, he can be cut without any salary cap penalties and he would also be more attractive as a trade-bait in order to get something for him.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

It sucks badly... they are homogenous.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Where are you getting Harpers cap hit, and Still owed guaranteed money?

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Harpers cap hit IF he is still with us is 7.1mm

If he is cut before the start of next season his cap hit due to signing bonus is only 1.75mm

Cutting him gives you 5.6mm to play with... Obviously structuring is what decides who/what talent you can bring in.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Base Salary S. Bonus Misc. Bonus Cap Hit
2011 1,900,000 1,750,000 - 3,650,000
2012 4,500,000 1,750,000 100,000 6,350,000
2013 5,250,000 1,750,000 100,000 7,100,000
2014 6,000,000 1,750,000 150,000 7,900,000


Roman Harper Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

He's count 3.75 mill against the cap if we cut him next year.

But why in the world would you cut your 3rd best player on defense?

Only a fool would cut him. As with every position you bring in competition and if he gets beat out, cut him. If not you keep him. Harper is far from being a main problem on this defense. Thats absurd. Hell this year a case could be made that he's our best DB and with Greer hobbled maybe our 2nd best player on Defense now behind Lofton.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

I am not looking to cut anyone just wondering where those numbers came form. We only get hit with 1.75/ year. I have seen the Roto...

The 1mm and 1.5mm are workout bonuses. If he is cut.. there is no work out bonus, work out bonuses are not part of the guaranteed.

So we have to tow 1.75mm a year for 2013/2014

Roman Harper Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Both years would accelerate to 2013. You can't keep them spread out.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

BUT you still have not given us anything about Harper this year. You are stuck in the past. Your hatred for him is plain as day to see. If you can sit there and say that Harper is the biggest problem on THIS years defense, you haven't been watching the games. Because anyone can see that he is by far not the worst problem on this unit. He has shown considerable improvement in coverage this year.

Harper: 52 Tackles 1 Int 7 Pass Defensed
Jenkins: 55 Tackles 0 Int 2 Pass Defensed

Harper has the 2nd most pass defensed on our D.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Correct but if the team goes over the salary cap because of the subsequent amortized years of the signing bonus, the hit is realized the following year...

Deferred guaranteed bonus. So while we would get hit with the full two years bonus in 2013, the 2014 could be handled in 2014 if we exceed the cap in 2013.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Welll, thank you mr Commissioner!:p

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

spotrac.com

Roman Harper Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

They list Harper's contract - which he signed last offseason - including $16M in guaranteed money from which the Saints have only paid him $10M at the end of this year.

Naturally, he has been paid more in real life, since the prorated signing bonus was already paid in full to him, so he has been paid $3.5M more, but I do recall them still having to count for that in salary cap penalties if he is cut now.

I could be wrong.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Commissioner? Do I have to move this thread to smack talk? That one word just summarizes to many derogatory thoughts.:brood:

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Sorry, it wasn't meant to be an insult, but this year I can see why someone would think that.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

So is Hicks is the starter at the Nose Guard?!?

When do we get to see the younger ends take over more playing time??

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

I like pie

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

I wonder if there's an anti-bounty on the defensive player that accidentally takes out Vick!!!

We may actually get some turnovers this week...

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Have the announced which players are on the inactive list for the MNF Game?

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

What?? So Sharper Porter And Greer Was Sucky DBs???? NO BUENO

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Anytime the offense gives the ball away most of the time, three and out, or perhaps after a first down or two, and the defense is on the field most of the time, with the team set up as it is, especially against a good team, or quarterback, we're going to get murdered.

When the offense starts performing, you'll see the defense do better also. No defense will be able to compete with this situation, unless they spent all their cap on the D, in which case the offense is likely to be pretty bad. The money is in the "O" at NO, like it or not.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

True, so true. If even just a couple more of those 3 and outs in each game had been offensive drives that lasted a few plays-- and got a few first downs (not even necessarily scores) and changed field position, took time off the clock etc -- then this defense would not look NEARLY so terribly bad as it is, I guarantee you that. The D would be ranked in the middle or top of the back of the pack, and not dead last, and it would not look nearly so hopeless and anemic as it does now. And the team's record would be different, no question about it.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

2009 they all looked good because of Sharper... after that, yes, all sucky.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

This is definitely a year and a stat that should have an asterisk next to it.

Most horrible defense in history New Orleans Saints * All credit goes to Roger Goodell

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

The top concern should be OLB, perhaps even before the defensive line concerns.

A few weeks ago, I had the experience of watching a Vikings game (since many family members are Vikes fan) and then a Saints game and I will tell you that the difference in having a good OLB like Greenway on the field and not having one is visually very telling. Without decent OLB play you'll get gashed on the perimeters.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Shut down big play Safety...

Case: Sharper in 2009

This is a passing league now... LBs cant help much with WR...

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

And that is exactly where we're getting gashed.

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Patrick Robinson that's what you're supposed to do as a first round pick...

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Shady McCoy had at or near 100 RuYd at the half; he finished with 119 RuYd...

That's something...

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

The Saints are gonna need loooonnnggg sustained drives that use the running game in a max effort because...

...if any team has been studying, prepping, and dedicating themselves to obliterating this defense, it is Atlanta...

We are gonna truly learn some things this week about the progress of the Saints defense and its future under Spagnuolo...

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

Well...

it looks like the running game minimized the time of exposure of the defense on the field...

White looks like he may develop before the end of his first season - it's about time we get a DB to do that...

And they definitely rolled personnel over to minimize certain players in coverage...

And now Sedrick has started his new contract world tour - I'd still let his lazy @$$ geaux in the offseason - getting younger, hungrier defensive linemen...

We still gave up a ton of yards in the passing game despite some great plays by the backs in the end zone on late drives...

better, but we still have a lack of personnel...

Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad?
 

I looked up the marketable difference between sprags defensive overall rating and then the difference over the last 3 games.

I dont think anyone wants to sell that the defense is , or will be, anything better than a top #15-20 overall, but the improvements are starting to show, and I say that because they are not only in 1 category, but in many areas over 3 games.

I was actually shocked to see so many improvements. What NO has always wanted is a top #10-15 defense that was stable and consistent. Not a top #1-15 that could suddenly drop to #32 for a game, like we saw in SF or Seattle.

Time of possession remains the #1 problem in my view,because its our offenses only real weakness. But sundays game showed the offense bears some small responsibility for this with so many punts.

anyway, I thought some might like to see Sprags defense is improving over 3 games.

NFL Team Opp Yards per Point
#12
#5 over last 3 games


NFL Team Opponent Points per Game
#29
#21 over last 3 games


NFL Team Opponent Points per Play
#27
#13 over last 3 games

NFL Team Opponent Touchdowns per Game
#29
#20 over last 3 games

NFL Team Opponent Red Zone Scoring Percentage (TD only)
#16
#9 over last 3 games

NFL Team Opponent Offensive Touchdowns per Game
#30
#23 over last 3 games


NFL Team Opponent Defensive Touchdowns per Game
#14
#12 over last 3 games

NFL Team Rushing Attempts per Game
#32
#8 over last 3 games

NFL Team Pass Attempts per Game #3
Incompletions per Game
#28
#16 over last 3 games

NFL Team QB Sacked per Game
#8
#5 over last 3 games

NFL Team Passing First Downs per Game (higher better)
#2
#23 over last 3 games