GumboBC

Last year the Saints played just awful in preseason. They looked confused, couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop the pass. You name it, and they looked terrible doing it.

Even worse, we saw the same kind of play when the regular season rolled around. Because of that, I think SOME Saints' fans have put too much stock in the preseason this year. I think some fans are convinced that because the Saints played poorly last year that preseason is a good indicator of things to come.

Also, I think this Saints team under Haslett has disappointed fans so many times, some fans just expect the worst.

But, IMO, preseason is still preseason. It's an evaluation period. Coaches try different things in the preseason that they wouldn't do in the regular season. They call formations on offense and defense that sometimes puts players in a less than favorable match-up. They do this because they need answers on how certain players will perform in certain situations.

For example:

They need to see if the cornerbacks can man-up with the receivers without any help. How else are they going to be able to determine this? And what better time to find out than preseason when the games don't count? Sometimes they play vanilla on the defensive line to see if the D-linemen can beat their man one-on-one. There are many examples !!


So, while the fans might be looking for one thing in preseason, the coaches might be looking for something entirely different.

If you're team appears to be struggling in a certain area, I wouldn't be too concerned at this point. For one, there's still plenty of time for improvement. And two, there's really no game planning done and coaches are trying to find out about certain players. Also, coaches usually are going to sit out some injured starters who would normally be on the field if it were a regular game.

Fans are normally harder on their favorite team than what they are on other teams around the NFL. Let's look at the NFL preseason so far and tell me if some of you put as much stock in some other teams preseason?


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Bengals - 31
Patriots -3

Tom Brady threw 0 TD's and 1 interception. And the Patriots only rushed for 78 total yards. Bengals QB Carson Palmer completed 12 of 19 for 179 yards and 3 TD's against the Patriots starting secondary. The Bengals totally dominated the Super Bowl Champs.

Do you still think the preseason tells a lot about your team?

If you're still not convinced. Here's some more.


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Jets - 31
Colts - 7

Peyton Manning threw 1 TD and 1 INT while completing 6 of 10 for 85 yards. Chad Pennington on the other hand completed 10 of 11 for 169 yards for 1 TD and 0- INTs. The starters for the Colts were outclassed by the Jet's starters. How would you feel if you were a Colts' fan? Would you be thinking that's what you would see in the regular season?

Those are just a couple of examples. So, don't get too high with the highs and don't get too low with the lows. No one is going to remember these preseason games at the end of the year. Unless your team doesn't do well in preseason the year before and they do the same thing in the regular season.

It doesn't mean a whole lot !!

CheramieIII

I was just about to say all that, but I do believe we were all looking for the run defense last night and we got it. I said in another thread that I thought the Patriots would be a pretender this year along with the Eagles and I am sticking to both of those predictions.

ScottyRo

There you go again, Billy. Posting final scores like that means something to us who believe that things can be learned in the preseaon. Sure, you backed that up with some matchups and that is where things can be learned.

But you really have to be a follower of the team or at least watched the game to know what was going on before you can evaluate what certain things meant.

It\'s like this...imo, I don\'t think we had a very good chance to evaluate the #1 O because of the line. The QBs weren\'t given time to throw and the RBs were in danger in the backfield. What bothered me was that much of the pressure was from the inside where our starters were. That may be an indication of trouble.

But as far as your post, it all depends on what was really happening. Did Cinci game plan and NE not? It\'s hard to tell from the box scores. Did Peyton play any different than normal?

GumboBC

ScottyRo --

The Colts and Patriots starters played as long as ours last night. Sure, they might not have game planned. They might have been missing a couple of starters. But so did we.

Do you think most Colts and Patriots fans are sitting there thinking their team sux because their team has looked bad in preseason? I\'d betcha that MOST of their fans aren\'t that concerned. You know why? Becasue they know they\'ve got a better team than that REGARDLESS of how the STARTERS played in the preseason.

They\'ve seen the starters in the REAL season and they know better.

BUT -- There are some Colts and Patriot fans on some message board going around preaching doom and gloom for their team? Don\'t believe me? Go visit a couple of their boards!!

So, like I\'ve been saying, don\'t get caught-up too much in these preseason games. The Saints have never looked good in preseason under Haslett and we\'ve come out and gone 7-2 , 6-2, and whatever even after playing bad in preseason.

The only thing I learned from last nights game is Ambrose is a liability in coverage/ the receivers had trouble catching the ball/ the 2nd string O-line didn\'t play well at all.

The most troubling thing to me is the receivers dropping the ball. That was a problem last year and it remains a problem until proven otherwise.

The run defense appears to be better. Although I need to see a LOT more to be convinced of that.

The secondary hasn\'t looked real good, but there\'s things that could be skewing that. I need to see MUCH more to form an opinion on that.

I\'ll ask you again.... What can you say with some CERTAINTY that you can tell us about the 2004 Saints?

If you\'re honest, it ain\'t a whole lot to talk about other than individual match-ups. It\'s almost impossible to say how they played as a TEAM !!!

JKool

I agree with ScottyRo here. It is hard to put those games in perspective, since I didn\'t see them.

However, stats don\'t tell you NOTHING. Those games had results that are VERY unexpected; this tells you that pre-season is hard to interpret - I thought that was Billy\'s point (Scotty seems to agree).

On my viewing of the game, it looked to me like, pressure or not, if our WR could have held on to the ball in the first half we would have been up 14 to 3 before GB even knew what was going on. I don\'t think I saw a single blitz, which made it hard on our average DBs (yes, especially Ambrose, but I don\'t think he looked anywhere near as bad as people are making out). Tebucky made a very nice read (and almost a pick) on a post pattern where most FS would have covered the crossing pattern, and he tackled well. AB threw well with some serious heat. Will Smith and Howard looked very good. Our linebackers looked good against the run and have mad speed (especially Watson and Hodge - Allen made two nice plays). The pass run distribution and plays called looked pretty good to me; our running game suffered from a lack of solid blocking to the outside.

In all, we need our starting OTs. We need another corner (unless F. Brown is as good as the coaches keep saying - Craft and Ambrose looked average at best). Our WR need some hands and NOW.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

GumboBC

Here\'s what I find funny. Last week when our run defense played not so well, we had some folks on here \"strongly\" suggesting we hadn\'t improved in this area.

Well, I said it didn\'t mean a whole lot, it was only ONE preseason game.

Now we looked great stopping the run this week. Where are those same guys that were bashing the run defense last week? Why aren\'t they trying to tell me how great our run defense is going to be this year?!?

I just don\'t get it. No, actually I do get it. SOME folks make MUCH MORE of the negatives than the positives.

I can recongnize the negatives all day long. I can see passes getting completed against our defense. I can see teams running the ball against our defense. I can see all of it. I can also understand when some folks are jumping the gun.

I can go bring back up the posts from last week if some of you would like??

[Edited on 22/8/2004 by GumboBC]

WhoDat

That\'s bothersome to hear. Note: I HAVE NOT YET SEEN THE GAME. I am Tivoing it tonight at midnight. After I see it I will report back. That said, if pressure did come up the middle, this will be the second game it happened, despite what a certain reporter\'s suggestion about the interior line stuffing an unproven Jets D-lineman. Last week I saw a lot of pressure, especially early on, coming straight up the middle. If it happened again, that\'s not a great thing.

Billy, do you just not think when you make statements like this? You general argument was that Patriots fans and Colts fans probably aren\'t worried b/c their teams are losing in preseason. You say that the probably aren\'t worried b/c they\'ve seen their team play in REAL games and know what they are capable of.

DO you realize you\'ve just proved people like Gator, and dare I suggest ME, right? Those fans aren\'t worried b/c their teams were the TWO BEST in the AFC last year. NE was the BEST IN THE LEAGUE. If we apply the same logic to the Saints we SHOULD BE WORRIED b/c the Saints were far from the best in ANY category last season.

This is why people get on you. If we suggest that the run defense was bad in REAL games last year, and looks bad in PRESEASON this year, and that MAY or is LIKELY to carry over into the REGULAR season you suggest we\'re \"just pointing out the negative.\" Then, in the same breath, you talk about how these same factors affect why we should think POSITIVELY about the Saints. Get down off the fence, man.

Just admit that you\'re optimistic because A) how they look on paper, and B) you want to believe the hype and think that they will be good. And before you even suggest that I\'m negative for the sake of being negative, go read my predictions for this season and my comments about the last game. I gave credit where credit was due and I pointed out both GOOD AND BAD play. I\'ve also continued to suggest that they team SHOULD improve this season. Now, go ahead again and remind me, like you and Saintfan did last year, how I am simply the \"most negative person\" you know of, and why you\'re actually right about the team, just like last year.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

GumboBC

WhoDat --

What I\'m saying isn\'t hard to understand. The only way you couldn\'t understand it is if you\'re just trying to post something to prove me wrong.

All I\'m saying is SOME folks jump to conclusions based on very little. Do you NOT agree with that? Because that\'s all I\'m really saying.

Just like last week against the Jets. We had folks on here trying to tell me that we hadn\'t really improved the run defense. But they did great last night. I\'m betting NONE of those folks are going to say we\'ve fixed the run defense. You wanta take that bet? And I can go pull up the posts from last week if you want. But that shouldn\'t be needed because you read everyone of \'em.

Logic? You want to talk about logic? I said preseason can be misleading both good and bad. If the Colts play bad, it doesn\'t meant they are bad. If the Saints play bad in preseason it doesn\'t mean they are bad. There\'s nothing you can say that\'s going to change that FACT. Now, they could be bad, but we don\'t know that do we?

And they could play very well in preseason and be bad couldn\'t they?

Now, you tell me Mr. WhoDat what part of that do you disagree with?

CheramieIII

Post game press conference, look\'s like Haz has some of the same concerns we do:
http://www.neworleanssaints.com/news...?articleid=878

GumboBC

gator -

Although you were one of the ones being very critical of just about every negative thing that happened in the Jets game, I really wasn\'t refering to you.

I could be wrong here, but I think you post some things that you might not necessarily mean because you want to prove a point. I do the samething sometimes. You don\'t like it when you think someone is spreading too much sunshine. I don\'t like it when folks are spreading too much moonshine. It works both ways.

I think most of us here understand that it\'s not good to see the Saints play bad in preseason. And I think most of us understand that even if they do play well in preseason that it doesn\'t guarantee much.

I think we\'ve seen some good progress stopping the run. Now, we need to see a lot more to be convinced of this but it\'s encouraging.

On the other hand, the passing game and the pass defense hasn\'t look good. I feel pretty comfortable about our passing game with Brooks and our receivers. We know there\'s a lot of talent there. But, our pass defense could be the downfall of this team.

Everyone of us are going to watch these preseason game but not everyone is going to walk away feeling the same way on certain things.

Some are going to be more critical and some are going to be less critical. But the great thing is we get to come here and discuss it as Saints\' fans.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing. Nothing wrong with debating an issue. I come here to learn about our team. What better way to do that?

So, keep us sunshiners straight and I\'ll make sure the \"moon roof\" is kept in check..