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Problems with Defensive Tackles

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by FinSaint I think that with Franklin it was a case of playing out of position, since his natural position is a 3-4 NT and not a 4-3 DT. A 3-4 NT - which is what Bunkley was ...

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Old 01-03-2013, 02:02 PM   #1
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Re: Problems with Defensive Tackles

Originally Posted by FinSaint View Post
I think that with Franklin it was a case of playing out of position, since his natural position is a 3-4 NT and not a 4-3 DT. A 3-4 NT - which is what Bunkley was also in Denver - is a position that almost solely concentrates on anchoring the defensive front and disrupting the off-center/guard running plays. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me at all that Franklin is doing much better now that he is once again playing in his natural position, a position which is primed to produce good numbers against the run.

In my opinion the three biggest problems the Saints had this past season and have had for some years now on their defensive front are Sedrick Ellis, Bill Johnson, and the scouting/drafting department.

I think that they should make changes in each of those three problem areas. Ellis will be gone, which is already an improvement. But I do think that they should really think about replacing Johnson with another D-line coach, because even though he is considered by his peers to be one of the better D-line coaches in the league - he hasn't been able to get these guys to play at an elevated level. Let Spags choose who he wants to be the D-line coach, and we could see an instant improvement in the way the front 4 guys play next season, even without any significant personnel changes. And they should look at the way they evaluate new talent and who they pick in drafts. Hicks was a no-brainer, even thought I still think they could've gotten him a round or two later, but lets hope that picking him was a sign of a future trend of picking actual talent who fit the system the team has, and not just picking guys based on their schools and/or their collegiate careers without any regard as to whether they can actually be successful in the environment the Saints can offer them.

Bunkley, Hicks and Johnson should stay and the FO should add one more DT in to that rotation - maybe a hybrid DT/DE guy, since the drafts nowadays seem to be full of those type of tweeners. This along with better edge rushing and better D-line coaching should be a recipe for better front 4 pass rush and run defense.
Great post. Agree with virtually all of it.

There were only 2 starters that graded in the top 100 in the league at their position, Bunkley (28th DT) and Jordan (66th DE).

Hicks (29th DT) and Johnson (42ndDT), Casillas (59th OLB), Quddus (42nd S), Galette (19th DE), Wilson (33rd DE) graded out OK as reserves though.

Every other starter was worse than the 100th ranked player at their position.

Lofton (104th MLB),
Vilma (100th OLB),
Ellis (118th DT),
Hawthorne (102nd OLB),
Greer (118th CB),
Robinson (193rd CB),
Harper (167th S),
Jenkins (168th S)

I put that directly on Spags.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:02 PM   #2
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Re: Problems with Defensive Tackles

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Great post. Agree with virtually all of it.

There were only 2 starters that graded in the top 100 in the league at their position, Bunkley (28th DT) and Jordan (66th DE).

Hicks (29th DT) and Johnson (42ndDT), Casillas (59th OLB), Quddus (42nd S), Galette (19th DE), Wilson (33rd DE) graded out OK as reserves though.

Every other starter was worse than the 100th ranked player at their position.

Lofton (104th MLB),
Vilma (100th OLB),
Ellis (118th DT),
Hawthorne (102nd OLB),
Greer (118th CB),
Robinson (193rd CB),
Harper (167th S),
Jenkins (168th S)

I put that directly on Spags.
I agree with this. I would have never thought Lofton would be ranked 104th. I do know that Harper and Jenkins graded out as the two absolute worst safeties in the league. In no way am I saying this is all their fault and they are the problem, but numbers are hard to argue with, and that is disheartening.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:56 PM   #3
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Re: Problems with Defensive Tackles

Originally Posted by TreyThomas View Post
I agree with this. I would have never thought Lofton would be ranked 104th. I do know that Harper and Jenkins graded out as the two absolute worst safeties in the league. In no way am I saying this is all their fault and they are the problem, but numbers are hard to argue with, and that is disheartening.
The fact that basically this same group of players averaged middle of the pack in 3 years under Gregg Williams tells me it's not the players. No one can tell me there are 103 MLB's in this league better than Curtis Lofton. And there aren't 100 OLB's better than Vilma. There are NOT 117 CB's better than Jabari Greer.

Obviously we cold use a few impact players along the front seven, but this roster isn't that damn bad.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:23 PM   #4
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Re: Problems with Defensive Tackles

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
The fact that basically this same group of players averaged middle of the pack in 3 years under Gregg Williams tells me it's not the players. No one can tell me there are 103 MLB's in this league better than Curtis Lofton. And there aren't 100 OLB's better than Vilma. There are NOT 117 CB's better than Jabari Greer.

Obviously we cold use a few impact players along the front seven, but this roster isn't that damn bad.
Pretty much says it all. Ellis' position, on the other hand, is believable.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:12 PM   #5
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Re: Problems with Defensive Tackles

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Great post. Agree with virtually all of it.

There were only 2 starters that graded in the top 100 in the league at their position, Bunkley (28th DT) and Jordan (66th DE).

Hicks (29th DT) and Johnson (42ndDT), Casillas (59th OLB), Quddus (42nd S), Galette (19th DE), Wilson (33rd DE) graded out OK as reserves though.

Every other starter was worse than the 100th ranked player at their position.

Lofton (104th MLB),
Vilma (100th OLB),
Ellis (118th DT),
Hawthorne (102nd OLB),
Greer (118th CB),
Robinson (193rd CB),
Harper (167th S),
Jenkins (168th S)

I put that directly on Spags.
193rd!! Wow, Robinson wouldn't make it as the 6th cornerback on the "average" team in the NFL.
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